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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mike175 on Wednesday 12 September 07 11:34 BST (UK)
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I wasn't sure where to post this, but I have an intriguing problem. Thomas Herbert Foss was my gt.gt.uncle. The only reference I have for him is the 1871 census when he was 7 years old, living with his father and sister in Mile End Old Town. His other sister age 10 was staying with an aunt and his mother was a visitor elsewhere. She died in the following year, age 41, and I'm currently awaiting her Death Cert. from GRO.
Although the rest of the family is well documented, I can't find any further reference to Thomas despite trying every variation of the name I can think of. I assumed that he probably died around the same time as his mother, and had put him in the "things to do" folder . . . my, how big that one is! :o
Now for the intriguing bit . . . In an old notebook I discovered a memo written by his sister, dated June 3rd 1908 : "1st June 1908 Reminded me of my brother Thomas Herbert Foss. Thank God if it is and help us to do right."
Clearly something happened to him, but was it simply an early death? The only likely record is 1888 in Poplar, but in that case he should appear somewhere on the 1881 census. Naturally I can find no death or other incident in the family for 1 June 1908 which might have propted the note ???
Maybe I should just leave it hanging in the air as a mystery, but if anyone can shed any light, or offer helpful suggestions, it would be one less item in the "to do" file. His birthplace was shown simply as London.
Mike.
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Hi Mike,
Just a suggestion but possibly not related .....
I have one of my side branches in Oz marrying a guy called Foss (can't remember his first name but can check if reqd).
It's not a common name and was wondering if you had checked for any immigration records - possibly to Australia.
Good luck
Di
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maybe he went missing?
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Hi Mike
The Childrens' Act was introduced in 1908 ie. juvenile offenders treated differently from adults and other measures to help with the welfare of children. Unfortunately, I don't know the date so can't say if it is significant but am wondering due to the tone and wording in your memo :-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_Act_1908
Whether it is significant or even relevant I can't say but it might be worth noting that many young offenders were sent to "farm" and/or "industrial" schools and subsequently shipped off to Canada. See also http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ (children & education).
Casalguidi
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Hi Casa!
Thomas was born c 1864 according to the 1871 census, so if he went to prison or similar the Act wouldn't apply. :-\
Mike
There is another Thomas FOSS of the same age, not sure whether it is him or your Thomas who becomes a brickmaker then a bricklayer and marries a Harriet?
Can find you the references if you haven't seen them.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots
I was thinking if she was reminiscing in 1908 ie. what happened to him previously (if it did) would possibly be different if it happened in 1908 ;)
Of course, it may be of no relevance whatsoever though :-\
Casalguidi :)
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Ah yes, I see - sorry a bit slow today!
;D
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Looking in The Times on 3rd June 1908, there is a report of a kidnapping of a boy in London. It seems that the boy was fostered to a woman, and then the natural mother wanted him back, but the foster mother refused, hence the kidnapping.
Maybe Thomas was a foster brother and disappeared, and his "sister" hoped and prayed that he had been taken back to his natural mother? That may be why no records can be found.
Just a thought
Glen
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Hi Mike,
Perhaps if you were to give us some more info it might help?
That is:
- details (including names) of the 1871 census entry for Thomas, his father and his sister
- details (including names) of the 1871 census entry for Thomas's mother (a visitor somewhere)
- details (including names) of the 1871 census entry for Thomas's sister (with an aunt)
And any info you have of what happened subsequently to all the people in the above entries.
JAP
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I haven't checked the original GRO image but there is a Thomas Herbert FROSS? birth registration March quarter 1864 Stepney registration district ref. 1c 502 http://freebmd.rootsweb.com ???
Casalguidi
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Wow! I just checked in briefly to see if there were any responses . . . looks like I'm going to be busy this evening.
Thomas Herbert Fross looks like a very strong contender for the birth, and he doesn't seem to appear again elsewhere under that name. Unfortunately, having found the BMD entry on ancestry, the original scan of the index page doesn't show him ??? ??? ???
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll post more details later and see if anything turns up.
Mike.
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Hi Mike
I've managed to look at the GRO index and it definitely says FROSS but, and this is a big BUT, FROSS is indexed between FOSKEY and FOSSETT which leads me to think that the "R" shouldn't be there at all and perhaps it is FOSS!
(the relevant page starts with Isabella FORSTER and ends with Charles FOSTER)
Casalguidi :)
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I think Kizmiaz' suggestion sounds like a very good explanation for the June 3rd comment!
This is very intriguing. My ggrandmother was farmed out - I am really not sure where she was in the 1881 0r 1891. Her mother had a child who died 5 years after she was born, might or might not have married that child's father and then disappears. Probably dies. I would love to know how my ggrandmother got from Gloucestershire to Glamorgan and met my ggrandfather.
Maybe Thomas was fostered, then disappeared.
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Casalguidi,
I've just come from a page by page search, and came to the same conclusion, that there was an error in compiling the index. I'm convinced enough to spend £7 on a certificate anyway, which should prove it either way . . . wish I'd logged in to RC again before searching and saved myself the time, but it's good to get a second opinion . . . especially when it agrees ;D ;D ;D
pjbuk007,
I did wonder if perhaps he had been adopted or fostered. His eldest sister, age 13, remained with their father when their mother died. The 12 year old sister was staying with an aunt on the 1871 census, and was married at 19, before the 1881, so may well have lived with the aunt during that time. I can't imagine the father giving up his only son lightly, but he may have felt it was for the best . . . if indeed that's what happened. The memo does make me think perhaps he didn't die young after all.
JAP,
These are the census entries:
RG10/563/15/21
Thomas Foss Head Shipwright b.1829 Beaulieu
Martha Elizabeth Foss Daur b.1859 London
Thomas Herbert Son b.1864 London
RG10/547/71/2
Ann Hincken Head Wid 60 (b.Lynn,Norfolk - where Martha's family came from)
Thomas Henry Wye Son-in-law 31
Julia Elizabeth Wye Daur 21
Anne Julia Wye Grandaur 2
Thomas Henry Wye Junr Grandson 10mo
Martha Priscilla Foss Visitor 39 (nee Press. Thomas Herbert's mother)
RG10/875/73/17
William Gawtrey Head 21 Smith & Farrier
Elizabeth M Gawtrey Wife 23
Sarah Press Lodger 44 Accoucheuse from [?] lying in hospital (Winifred's aunt)
Winifred Foss Visitor 10 (Thomas Herbert's other sister)
Thanks for the help so far, you've set me off on a whole new search . . . :)
Mike.
PS. This is the father and daughters c.1895 :)
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What a fine-looking family! And what an intriguing puzzle! I'm looking forward to reading what transpires... 8) 8)
MarieC
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I'm looking forward to reading what transpires.
Me too and, yes, what a lovely photograph!
Casalguidi :)
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Well, the mother's death certificate arrived today, and she died of "Morbus Uteri 2 years Morbus Cordis Certified" . . . which roughly translates as an infected uterus for 2 years, with the actual cause of death being heart failure. Poor woman!
I've ordered Thomas FROSS' birth certificate, on the assumption that it is a misprint in the index . . . I gave both variations of the surname on the application, so I hope they'll find him. :-\
Working on the adoption theory, in the absence of a death record, I've searched for any Thomas born at the same time with a different surname, but no luck so far. I suppose they might have changed his first name even though he was already 7-8 years old?
Thanks for all the help. I'll post any new findings, as and when . . . . :)
Mike.
PS. Photo restoration by the brilliant Cazza59 8)
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Just a thought.
That was an inspired thought of Glen's to search in The Times. But the report of an abduction, while it could fit with the first part of the note (which was dated 3 Jan 1908 and says 1 Jan 1908 Reminded me of my brother Thomas Herbert Foss.) doesn't fit in any way at all (as far as I can see) with the rest of the note (which says Thank God if it is and help us to do right.)
Might there have been some other story in the newspaper(s) which, for whatever reason, sounded to her as if it might refer to her (missing?) brother Thomas Herbert Foss (who would have been ca 44 by then)? Does she then, hoping that it is Thomas, give thanks to God if it should turn out to be him. And does she then ask God to help the family do whatever is best (or, perhaps, ask God to help the family to try to put to rights whatever happened to Thomas in the past).
JAP
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This is an intriguing thread 8)
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My thoughts are along the same lines as JAP's last post. That memo, together with the mother's death certificate, certainly implies that Thomas didn't die in childhood, as might have been the case if his mother had died of some infectious disease, say. Incidentally, their father died in 1904, some four years before the memo.
I'm in danger of becoming obsessive about this, but reading the memo in her own handwriting is beginning to give me goosebumps . . . these personal stories are what makes genealogy so fascinating.
Mike.
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Enjoying this thread, hope you get a result
Jane
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Hi again Mike,
It's really weird, isn't it.
I see that Martha Priscilla (PRESS) FOSS (the mother of Martha, Winifred and Thomas) died in 1872.
And that their father Thomas re-married in 1879 to Katherine NORMAN, and had his 15yo stepson (Katherine's son) with him in 1881. Along with his daughter Winifred, her husband, and their daughter - Thomas's granddaughter Winifred.
You certainly have to wonder what happened to young Thomas - 7yo in 1871 and living with his father Thomas and sister Martha. Martha I take to be the unmarried Lady's Maid in a very 'superior' family in 1881.
Incidentally, do you have the death cert of Thomas snr?
JAP
PS: Did Winifred write other notes? Do they give any clue as to the sorts of things she noted?
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JAP,
Yes, you have all the right people. Katherine's son Alfred seems to have emigrated to Australia and died 4 Aug 1906 in Kanowna, Kalgoolie, Western Australia, assuming it's the same person.
It was actually Martha (the daughter) who wrote the memo, and sadly I haven't found anything else she wrote. She was indeed the lady's maid in 1881, although in later years she was financially independant as she bought 2 houses in Essex in 1894. She never married, and seems to have lived with her father for much of her life. She died in 1912, age 52, from Chronic Bright's Disease, and the place of death on the certificate is the Essex County Asylum! So now I'm wondering if that has any bearing on the memo! The plot thickens . . . although I read somewhere that Bright's can lead to severe depression, which might explain the asylum. Martha is the one on the right of the photo I posted earlier.
None of which sheds any light on the disappearance of Thomas Herbert . . . ???
Mike.
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Just a brief update . . . I now have the birth certificate for Thomas Herbert Foss/Fross, thanks to Casalguidi's excellent detective work 8)
FROSS must have been a mistake in the index as there is no doubt it is FOSS on the certificate, and the parents are correct. Unfortunately, still no progress in finding out what happened to him but I'll post anything I find.
I wonder if they'll correct the index, now it's been pointed out to them?
Mike.
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I know this thread has been dormant for 6 years but I recently found these details and as there was a good deal of interest at the time I thought I should provide an update:
Crew list:4 Sep 1880 - 10 Feb 1881
THOMAS FOSS, Boy, b.1862 London
Vessel: Anchises of Liverpool, number:70974
Master: C JACKSON
Owner: Alfred HOLT, 1 India Building, Liverpool
Previous ship: Abdiel of Liverpool 1880
So it looks as if Thomas Herbert joined the Merchant Navy as a Boy, possibly adding a couple of years to his age, which would explain the small discrepancy. I could find no other Thomas Foss to match the above.
This would explain his absence from the 1881 census. I have searched newspaper archives for any reference to him in shipwrecks, etc, with no luck so far.
And still no further light on the mysterious memo . . . :-\
Mike.
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Looking on the Shipping Reports in the newspapers around these years shows that the Abdiel (though registered in Liverpool) was sailing from London to various European destinations eg Malta in 1880. In 1880/1881, the Anchises was sailing to destinations in the Far East eg Singapore and Hong Kong.
Possibly Thomas went to sea from London, sailed to European ports to begin with, then changed ship to venture further afield....in which case, he could have ended up anywhere!
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Thank you, that's very interesting. I hadn't yet got around to searching the shipping reports.
As you say, it seems he may have finished up anywhere in the world!
I was resigned to never finding out what happened to him, but a picture is very slowly forming.
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Fascinating story!
Keep looking mike175, 6 years isn't long in this game! With all the new information coming on-line by the day I'm sure you'll turn him up somewhere, do keep us posted.
Suey
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Just a quick update, since you asked: :)
Well, it seems that perseverance may have been rewarded thanks to the amazing and growing volume of records on Ancestry. There is no absolute proof as yet but the evidence is becoming very convincing.
Since the earlier posts I have found a passenger list dated 1882 for the ship Cynosure bound from London to Sydney. At the end of the page is a note: "Stowaway Thomas Foss"
In 1888 there is a marriage to Alice Jane Davis in Gunnedah, New South Wales, which produced three children. Thomas was a police constable in NSW during that time.
However, things took a darker turn in 1899 when he appears to have deserted his wife and family and was believed to have gone to South Africa with a woman named Charlotte Peterson: in 1913 his sister in England instigated an inquiry into his whereabouts, so she obviously believed it was the same Thomas.
To be continued . . . (I have further evidence that he may have emigrated yet again - to the U.S.A. but I'm still trying to verify this)
Mike.
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However, things took a darker turn in 1899 when he appears to have deserted his wife and family and was believed to have gone to South Africa with a woman named Charlotte Peterson: in 1913 his sister in England instigated an inquiry into his whereabouts, so she obviously believed it was the same Thomas.
That would match the tone of the note.
Would the Australian marriage certificate give Thomas' parents details?
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Would the Australian marriage certificate give Thomas' parents details?
Thanks, that may be worth looking into. Unfortunately, from some of the information I have Thomas may not have been entirely honest about his background; understandable in the circumstances ;D There are sufficient consistencies to make me fairly sure it is the same man, but he seems to have had at least three different "wives" and his age is a little variable ::)
One of the more convincing aspects of the USA records is that his first "wife" there is Charlotte, and their two children bear almost identical names to his first family in Oz
I'll keep you posted.
Mike.
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The saga continues . . . ::)
On 6th January 1902 the SS "Ventura", sailing from Sydney, arrived at San Francisco carrying amongst its passengers: Thomas Foss, 39yrs, Hotel Keeper; Charlotte Foss, 29yrs, wife; and Thomas Foss, 1yr 2mth. Their last place of residence is shown as New Zealand. On 12th June in that year Thomas declared his intention to become a Citizen of the U.S.A., and on 17th December 1909 completed a Petition for Naturalization, by which time he and Charlotte had two children. Somewhat confusingly they bore almost identical names to two of Thomas' earlier children in Australia: Thomas A. and Olive Irene.
A Thomas Augustus Foss was born in Auckland, New Zealand in 1900 (sounds like the one), and Olive Irene was born in 1902 in Los Angeles.
Thomas Herbert, having dropped his middle name, appears in the 1910 census with Charlotte and the two children, in 1920 he is living with a different woman, Emily T Foss, but still with the same two children, and ten years later he is living alone, status: divorced!
Along with various other bits of corroborating evidence, there is a death record for Thomas junr. dated 10 Jul 1967, Los Angeles, which shows his mother's maiden name as Peterson so I'm fairly sure it is the same Thomas that abandoned his family in Oz and ran away with Charlotte Peterson. What I still don't have conclusive proof for is whether he is in fact my relative from England . . . I'm hoping to find the next generation, either in Australia or in the U.S. but no luck so far . . .
Mike.
PS. Still waiting for the NSW Marriage Certificate
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Hi
There is a Will for William Foss the Father, I wonder if William Junior, is mentioned
Thomas Foss, of Abbotts Hall Cottages, Stand le Hope, Essex, died the 14 Jan 1904, probate London, 9 Feb, to Joseph Massey Sullings, builder, Effects, £265.00
Margp
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Hi MargP,
Yes, Thomas senior's will was on my "to do" list. Maybe now would be a good time "to do" it ;D
Thanks for the prompt, I just downloaded the form.
Mike.
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-But we still don't know why the date of 1st June reminded his sister of him??? Will we ever find out??
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What an interesting Post, this is what this game is all about.
xin
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Thomas Augustus birth NZ BMD is as
1900/4118 Foss Thomas Augustus mother and father Charlotte & Thomas
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Thomas Jr, marriage online too, did you find it?
this is the second page
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-29944-28317-9?cc=1804002
Olive, mother as Francis ?
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Had also wondered about this marriage 1932
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29948-1082-10?cc=1804002
as the only Thomas Foss I could find 1930 had the different birth date to match this one, but also from Australia
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Had also wondered about this marriage 1932
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29948-1082-10?cc=1804002
as the only Thomas Foss I could find 1930 had the different birth date to match this one, but also from Australia
Wow! I'd missed that one! I would say it is almost certainly the same Thomas; he was shown as divorced in the 1930 census. He seems to have been a little imaginative when it came to his age, parentage, marital status, etc. so we can't rely on the facts stated being totally accurate ::)
So far I have him married to or living with: Alice Jane Davis (NSW), Charlotte Peterson (New Zealand & Los Angeles), Emily T Foss (Los Angeles), and Grace Sage Griffith (Los Angeles)
I also found the marriage for his son Thomas (the one born in New Zealand) to Marian Beckwith, but he later appears living with Della Bench, and there is a memorial plaque to them in Forest Lawn Memorial Park, Glendale, Los Angeles County.
Still no firm evidence for the incident that inspired the memo, but a fascinating and growing story of a very full life ;D
I still await the NSW marriage certificate and the father's will . . .
Thanks for all the interest and assistance.
Mike.
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Did you see she was a movie star 1930, did look at IMDB but not too much as I wanted to see what you thought as I can't see him 1940
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He seems to be alone again in 1940, living with his daughter Olive Freese and her family in Beverly Hills. Well, that would tie in with Grace being an actress 8) and she might not have been with Thomas in that census because she was away working in the movies :-\
I now see that Thomas and Grace were nextdoor neighbours in 1930; I didn't make the connection before Willsy found the marriage.
One thing that bothers me is that Thomas, on more than one occasion, gives his mother's birthplace as Northern Ireland, but as he was 8 years old when his mother died he may have been genuinely uncertain about her.
All the other evidence supports it being one person with a timeline running from England to Australia, New Zealand, and California. The early life in England together with the fact that his sister clearly believed this to be her brother is also supportive. Yet there is still a lingering doubt . . . :-\ :-\ :-\
I'm pinning my hopes on the Marriage Cert at the moment . . . but NSW Registry is very slow :(
And I suppose there might be a mention in the father's will . . . when that eventually turns up :(
But is past my bedtime now so I'll leave the rest for another day.
Mike.
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I've only just come across this saga, what a lot of info Rootschatters have found out, although nothing yet what 1st June has to do with it.
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Have you got this reference?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C11712026
he is listed with the rest of the crew
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Thanks, but yes I do have that:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=255365.msg5024604#msg5024604
The following year he seems to have stowed away on a ship bound for Sydney. I imagine a stowaway would have to reveal himself once far enough from port, otherwise he would struggle to survive such a long voyage, on what appears to be a cargo ship since there are only a couple of passengers tagged on to the end of the crew list. I believe it would have taken at least eight weeks, depending on the type of ship.
Mike.
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Just checking in so that I don't miss any of this story - beginning with the strange memo.......
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Couldn't help getting interested in this thread!
Mike have you seen there are a number of articles in the NSW newspapers in the late 1800s about Thomas Foss the police senior constable on Trove eg:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22thomas+foss%22&l-decade=189
regards, Maddy
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Maddy,
Thanks. I think there are a few there that I'd missed.
After so much intensive searching on my part it is amazing that RootsChat members can still come up with new findings 8)
Mike.
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I've only just come across this saga, what a lot of info Rootschatters have found out, although nothing yet what 1st June has to do with it.
My best guess at the moment is that the family in England saw something in the papers in June 1908 relating to the desertion of his family in NSW, but I have yet to find a likely reference in the British Newspaper Archive, etc. Of course, if I'm right, he had already been in Los Angeles for over six years by that time.
I still await the Marriage Certificate from NSW to see if he names his father; I may yet find he is not my relative after all . . . :'(
Mike.
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Well, the Marriage Certificate finally arrived but, as I feared, the space for the names of Thomas' parents is blank :(
The only things I have learned are that they were bachelor and spinster and his bride was Alice Janet (not Alice Jane) Davis. She was under 21 so needed her father's consent; he was Abner Davis but her mother was not named.
Unless Thomas' father's will sheds any further light I'll have to get back to searching the English records for any more clues to his earlier life.
Mike.
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:-\ :-\
shame
xin
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What a fascinating read ... Daren't miss any further updates on this .... Well done for persevering with your search Mike ...and Rootschatters too ;) :)
Poll
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Agree, Polldoll!
What an interesting rogue - the kind who adds colour to any family tree - the kind we'd all like to have!
Good luck in documenting him, Mike. I chuckle when I think that some of our ancestors thought they'd covered their tracks - but we are tracking them down! ;D
MarieC
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Agree, Polldoll!
What an interesting rogue - the kind who adds colour to any family tree - the kind we'd all like to have!
Good luck in documenting him, Mike. I chuckle when I think that some of our ancestors thought they'd covered their tracks - but we are tracking them down! ;D
MarieC
If only they had known eh Marie?
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Think I've just about exhausted Thomas' foreign adventures, culminating in marrying the movie actress in Beverly Hills. Sadly he was widowed again by the 1940 census and living with his daughter and son-in-law, but apparently he lived to the age of 89, dying in 1953. So quite a long and full life ;D
Many thanks to everybody for the help. I'll post further updates if I'm fortunate enough to discover anything more.
Mike.
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Finally received a copy of the father's will dated 1900, but it did not mention Thomas Herbert so I'm no further forward in my original quest. The family clearly lost touch with him some time after 1871, and later believed him to be in Australia.
I'm convinced all the records after 1882 relate to the same man, and I feel the odds are in favour of him being my relative.
I continue to search for that 1908 incident that started all this . . .
Mike.
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.... And we all hope when you finally do discover the significance of that June 1st date, you WILL let us all know - please?
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All may not be lost with regards to Thomas' 1888 marriage in Gunnedah NSW.
The records that the NSW BDM hold for marriages for that time do not always tell the full story and can often be a bare bones recording of the event. The full details will be in the parish register - if it still survives. I had the same problem with a marriage at Mudgee in the central west of NSW but found all the details in the film of the register.
Many such PRs of the 19th century have been filmed and are available for viewing at the Society of Australian Genealogists in Sydney and in various public libraries around the state.
I have checked the SAG online catalogue and they hold film of the following registers from Gunnedah:
Primitive Methodists May 1884-Feb 1898
Wesleyan Methodists 1875-1885 but with gaps
CofE 1869 -1909 including Gunnedah but no dates specified for that place.
With a bit of luck the 1888 marriage cert. you received for Thomas and Alice should have the denomination, place and name of the officiating minister. If you could post these details it could be checked to see if the marriage is likely to have been filmed.
I live on the outskirts of Sydney and don't make it into the centre city very often but there maybe a rootschatter that does and is a member of the SAG and could do the lookup for you.
Darryl
Sydney Australia
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Just noticed that there is a tree on ancestry that has your Thomas H FOSS and his family in New South Wales. The owner of the tree 'Kanned' still seems to be active.
It has Thomas H FOSS as being killed in South Africa in 1902, perhaps a family yarn to cover his disappearance. But how did his sister Winifred Partridge know in 1913 that he had left Australia abt 1899 in company with Charlotte Peterson?
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Sarco,
They were married in the Wesleyan Church, Gunnedah 16 Oct 1888 so it doesn't look promising. The place of birth is blank for bride and groom. Age and father's name are shown only for the bride.
I have been in touch with the owner of the tree on Ancestry, with limited success so far. There are many errors in the tree so I didn't pursue it very far. The same death date occurs in a couple of other trees, but I can find no source information.
My late father used to talk about his extended family and was interested in family history but never mentioned Thomas, who was his grandmother's brother. In fact, when I started serious family history I was unaware of his existence until I found the 1871 census.
The death of his mother when he was 7 and of his step-mother three years later, followed by his father's 3rd marriage when he was 15, could have resulted in an estranged teenager who 'ran away to sea'
One of the most convincing links is that the later Thomas always uses the same birthday on official records as the true birth date of my relative, although the year varies.
Mike.
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Wonderful story, enough to inspire the rest of us that when we hit a brick wall, we do not give up.
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I had another look at the SAG library catalogue and what do you know, there is a pamphlet concerning the Davis family from Gunnedah, herewith the details:
Davis family history. ;
Material Type: Pamphlet
Pagination: 43p. : ill., geneal. tables, maps ; 30cm.
Summary: Thomas (1819-1902) & Eleanor Davis (1819-1887 nee Besant) came from Upavon, Wiltshire; they married in 1841. They left England on the "Queen of England" in 1854 with their three children. By 1862, they had moved to Gunnedah, eventually living at Piallaway. This history was issued to commemorate a reunion of descendants held at Narrabri in 1993.
Perhaps Abner and Alice were part of that family?
Regarding the marriage, it could be that the Wesleyans became the Primatives as the dates are more or less contiguous so it could still be useful to check the film
Darryl
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Thanks Darryl, I just checked and Abner was a son of Thomas and Eleanor Davis from Wiltshire :)
Mike.
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Hi Mike,
I support Sarco's comment that not all info on historic NSW marriages was passed onto the registrar. I contacted the Uniting Church Archives about an 1875 Wesleyan marriage and was sent the full details by e-mail - it cost 26 dollars. I see there is also an option to search for yourself at the archives - and it is not too far from me. :)
http://www.insights.nsw.uca.org.au/church/archives.htm
cheers,
Ros
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Hi Ros, thanks for the link. I'll try emailing them to see what they can offer but I doubt if Thomas gave much information away, he seems to have cut himself off from his early life and family. He even gave a false name for his mother in one record in the USA
As for the Davis family, I hesitate to trace them too far. I have tried to make a practice of only going back or forward one generation on these side branches unless there's a special reason. It is very easy to get diverted from the main project down these side alleys ::)
Mike.
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Hi Mike,
I am happy to go and search for you. It was the limited opening hours that caused me to pay for the research before. But now that I am retired it only my inertia that I have to overcome. ;D
I'm guessing there is little/no cost if you do your own searching ???
I'll pm you my e-mail address and then perhaps you can send me a copy of the marriage cert so that I have all the info at hand. Perhaps he gives his correct place of birth or some clues ...? - nothing to lose anyway.
cheers,
Ros
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Brilliant thread. I watch with interest. :)
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Hmmm I see the police records say he was born 1865 in South Australia ... but no record of this birth on SA BDM http://www.genealogysa.org.au/
Police Records NSW http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=31
cheers,
Ros