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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Jillie42 on Tuesday 11 September 07 12:57 BST (UK)
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How do you go about solving a long standing family myth when no one actually knows the name of the person involved and the story is really vague?
Do you think there is always a kernel of truth behind the myth?
Our myth is that one of our Snow ancestors was a diplomat in Russia during the revolution. He apparently hid a female aristocrat under the floor boards then smuggled her to England where he supposedly married her. it's a great story but I've never found any proof of a Russian wife for any Snows after 1917, not any clue that a Snow was ever a diplomat in pre-revolution Russia.
What about the rest of you? Have your myths ever turned out to have a basis in fact?
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We have a family myth that our family is descended from the Wilsons who owned the town Wilsontown, in Lanarkshire. Granny even has a story abouyt how we lost it.
I have traced the Wilson line as far back as I can and here is no sign of us coming from that town, never mid owning it.
I think what might have happened is thta a lot of people in the area lost everything when they works went 'bust' so I think maybe that happened to our family and that's how the story got passed down.
I don't know if stories like that are always wrong, i think there has to be a grain of truth in them somewhere. you just have to look, see if you can find out if it's true!
caroline
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I was told there was a brother and sister, Sophie and Stuart Henderson who were related to the family. They were Scottish, he was an MP and she was in music hall (according to my Nan) or a ballet dancer (according to an aunt). My 2x great grandparents were Scottish but were Tod and Spence, not Henderson.
It has taken me a long time but I got there in the end. One of the more distant Tod's married a STEWART, and two of the children were Sophie and James Stewart. James was a scottish MP and was made a Barronet, taking on the name James Henderson Stewart. (this is where the name mix up occured).
Sophie his sister trained as a ballet dancer and was due to go on a tour with Margot Fonteine when she had an accident and had to give up dancing. She then trained as an actress. So my Aunt was right and poor old Nan wrong.
This is one myth that was right, but I have many with only a ting grain of truth!
Beverley
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One branch of my family was very hard to track down until recently. Information was that Adam married Hannah, had 2 daughters & went to Vancouver. However, I found birth of one daughter in Australia, yes Australia, so though Vancouver was just a mistake. A few years ago someone mentioned her ancestors going from Ireland to Australia & Vancouver, B.C. but I still couldn't find my relatives in Vancouver, British Columbia or even Canada. A few weeks ago I found the family in, wait for this, Vancouver in Washington State, U.S. with 2 Australian-born daughters, another child born California & the rest in Washington State. There were 9 children altogether and I was able to get to names for some of them but still trying to fill in the details.
Just goes to prove it's not a good idea to assume anything when trying to locate relatives.
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i have been told that years ago when a family settled on land and more added to it that gave it a name IE normally that of the first settlers so the myth was the town was theres or belonged to them as time evolved and people came to live there or move away. the myth was still there as it was passed down to generations. the land not actually being brought by any one. worth a thought. or or looking into.
Bitz
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Family myths, i find, often have an element of truth, but have often been embrodrered over the years - or often relate to someone completely different than whom they are said to relate to.
My father's family always insisted his gran was Susan Archer before she married , and that she was related to a Lady Archer.
Well, all our research proved that she was Susan Kemp before her marriage. However, we then found that her mother, also a Susan, was Susan Archer before she married Mr Kemp.
But however much we hunt, we cannot find a link with a 'Lady Archer'!!!
So - just a mereist hint of truth, surrounded by a LOT of myth!
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My great grandmother was said to have a sister called Alice, who left Co Durham for the USA in the 1850s. The family story is that she went to Montana and lived at a place that became known as Ridley Creek (Alice's maiden name was Ridley).
There are just a couple of things about this story.......there is an Alice Ridley from the same town, who married and went to the US in the 1850s. She lived at Ridley Creek, Pennsylvania. She just doesn't have the same parents as my great grandmother!!
Wotty
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We've always been led to believe that our Meyers ancestors were Dutch and came from Heligoland.
As far as I can determine, Heligoland was never a Dutch possesion, rather it was originally Danish, then British then finally German.
My earliest traceable Meyers was Archibald Meyre who gives his place of birth on the 1841 and 1851 census as "Scotland", c.1815. Searching Scotland's People appears to give no result for this name and date, although there is an Arch Meier, b. Govan 1805.....!
The family owned shops in Carlisle and there was some "unpleasantness" outside in the street, around the time of WW1 with a rabble accusing them of being Germans, which was refuted by the family who insisted they were Dutch (maybe out of self-preservation!).
Police and military officials called at one of the shops to take my G-Grandfather, Edward Meyers, into custody to be interned. My G-grandmother gave them short shrift and advised they take the matter up with Edward himself - in Richardson Road Cemetary, where he had been laid to rest a few years earlier!
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Our family myth says that our Gr-grandfather (Slaymaker) came from London (we're now in Wales), and that the family had a shop?/stall? that sold cutlery?/crockery? Having followed the family line through the census, I did find the family in London, as fruiterers in Covent Garden!!! The family presumably fell on hard times parents died, children split up, youngest ones sent to Middlesex Industrial school one of which eventually ends up in Wales. (aaah! one myth put to bed).
But as with all good mysteries there's a twist,... ... having put up a request for any information regarding the unusual name Slaymaker (on this website) we were contacted by a lady from the liverpool area who had a casserole dish with a stamp of the name 'Slaymaker & Co. Covent Garden & Manchester' on the bottom. (How exciting!!!) We've tried to do a bit of serching for 'Slaymaker & Co.' but without much luck, if anybody out there knows where to look and likes a challenge we'd love to find out more.
Buckaroo
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my mothers line of Punnetts originally came from Punnetts Town which was named after them.
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Buckaroo - that is an exiciting story!
caroline
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My mother-in-law's maiden name was Mantell and the family always believed that they were related to Gideon Mantell
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/chamber/mantell.html
needless to say I've never found the connection. Our Mantell's came from Norfolk. THAT bubble was promply burst.
My mum's family was called Sutcliffe and although the last 4 generations were born and bred in SE London there was always a myth that the family owned cotton mills in Yorkshire...........and I've found out that yes, we came from Todmordon, Calderdale, West Riding of Yorkshire......... but we certainly never owned any mills - simply worked in them with both Daniel and his son John (gt gt granfather and gt grandfather) being engineers.
Funny how the myth tends to me more grandiose then the reality ;)
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I have come up against so many family myths - some with a grain of truth, others pure fiction - that I have written a 1-hour illustrated talk on the subject!
Bill
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One of our myths is that we were descended from a titled family called Wheate who lived at Glympton Park, Oxfordshire, and the inheritance was lost or stolen many generations back. The myth dates back at least 200 years as there is a copy of a letter written to an ancestor by one of the titled family in 1805.
My exhaustive online research based on other family records has found a possible connection, but the potential common ancestor died in 1581 ::) ::) ::)
Mike.
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My grandfather and grandmother emigrated to USA and settled in Pensacola but came back to Liverpool after only a few years - apparently my grandmother couldn't take the hurricanes. My mother told me that her father and a friend built a church in Pensacola which burned down and they then built another one. I've never been able to verify the story.
Rosa
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Gosh, I have so many myths in various lines.
One that I laugh at is that the one line of family believed that one of their ancestors, Riverina Simpson, was the first female born in the Riverina, (New South Wales, Australia), obviously thought this because of the name given to her, yet they never checked and noticed that she had two sisters born there before her. ;D
Another was that a Brower Wild (gr grandfathers brother) owned hotels in London.
Close, but no cigar. It was a John Brear Wild and yes, he owned hotels in London.
On my husband side there are the Thomsons, the family all new that they were from Germany and had presumed, and many swear to it, that he must have been a german sailor and jumped ship and changed his name. This was decided as they did not see Thomson as a German name. I found the name Thomson in Germany ;D
also on my hubby's side they have the name Burn, " we are related to Robbie Burns the poet" they all say.
Not so!!!
I never disregard the myths, but never take them as gospel either.
Margaret
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These family myths! When I first started my tree (and had come to a standstill in the research, the way you do) I offered to trace my aunt's family (an inlaw, not a blood relative). My aunt, well in her 80s, is olive skinned with black-brown eyes, and still with dark brown hair. Stunning as a young woman.
She was always very proud of the fact that her grandfather married a Spaniard, hence the family's dark complexion. So we were all excited when I started the search. But the grandfathers both married Nottingham girls!
So we thought it must be great-grandfathers. But they married Midlands girls too.
My aunt was really upset by these findings - I'd destroyed an image she'd had of herself for 80 years.
I believe John Hurt felt the same on WDYTYA when he found his family story about being Irish was just a myth.
Is it better not to know?
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I think I'd be very careful about disillusioning anyone over a long-held family myth . . . especially the older members of the family. Unless of course they genuinely want to know. I suspect some of the older relatives probably wouldn't believe it anyway . . . after all, you can't trust these new-fangled computers, can you . . . ::)
Mike.
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I'd say you're not disillusioning anyone, just extending the famiy myth!!!,
"it must be further back again..." just need to keep looking... and looking... and looking some more!
We've got another myth that says, one of our gr.x? grandfathers ran away from the army (Napoleonic wars), returned home and changed his name from Prys Edwards to Edward Price! (Anybody fooled???).
We've found who we think is his wife & family in the census's but he's passed away by then. Don't know where to look next for him!
Buckaroo
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Well we've just seen a prime example of a family myth with no foundation in reality on WDYTYA tonight! Sounds as if the headmaster ancestor reinvented himself!
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Weve always been told that my (English) great grandfather ran away to sea and jumped ship in South Australia after his brother drowned in a lake!
That one has slowly been unravelled......discovered some time ago that yes, indeed his brother did drown.....in Victoria, Australia as a six year old when my great grandfather was 4 years old! Yesterday I received a copy of the inquest.....and the brother didn't even die in a lake.....rather, an in ground rainwater tank!
......dee
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My grandfather's ancestor was supposed to be a sea captain who died at sea- but the truth was that he was a captain (not sure if a natitical title or militia or what) who drowned in the well in his back garden.
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thats funny aghadowey ( but sad that he drowned of course)
I think family myths are like the 'chinese whisper'.
I can see how the family would have said he was a captain and drowned, and how easy that one would have been embelished ;D
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According to newspaper account he seems to have stumbled into the well. Know he wasn't exactly young but always wondered if drink was involved.
His daughter-in-law married four times which has made her extremely difficult to find but I do have a lovely picture taken of her when she must have been very old. His grandson was a doctor who cannot be found in records of either of two medical school he was supposed to have attended. But it certainly is an interesting family.
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"My mum's family was called Sutcliffe and although the last 4 generations were born and bred in SE London..."
Any relation to the former Woolwich Borough Engineer, Jillie42?
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My family myth concerns my Grandfather, according to my father, he was a seaman, but worked on the building of the Tower bridge, was hit on the head by a crane hook, afterwards he went back to sea, sailed twice around the world, and whilst home, dropped down dead when shaving, due to the bash on the head some years earlier, my dad was only a kid at the time, he reckoned he was about four or five, but I have found his sister who was born when he was six. Sad story but is there any truth in it? I have determined that he was Irish, was in fact a seaman, have only the fact that he was Irish from his marriage, and have never been able to find out where or when he was born, and never found any record of his death. I am starting to suspect that he ran off back to Ireland (or America, Canada, Australia) and the kids were just told he had died, but I keep searching.
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Hi,
I think most of us has uncovered the odd myth, or skeleton in our family research.
When my mother asked why she didnt have any paternal grandparents, she was told that her granny Alice had accused her dad (a toddler) of being responsible for the death of her husband. Story has it that the wee boy ran to his father knocking him over, and he died as a result of his injuries. In grief Alice abandoned the wee boy leaving him to be brought up by his Aunty. Apparently it was thought she ended up in a Mental Home suffering from a broken heart.
What did my research uncover;
Yes the grandad did die, but from injuries sustained over a period of years.
Far from the grieving widow, Alice remarried just 4 months after her husband's death, AND declared herself to be a spinster.
Five years later still married to husband number two, Alice had another child. On the birth certificate she declared her husband was not the father, but another man's child.
She later married this man declaring herself to be a widow, but to date I cannot find a death certificate for husband number two.
Ah the plot thickens, looks like my grt granny just liked to spread the love :) :)
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"My mum's family was called Sutcliffe and although the last 4 generations were born and bred in SE London..."
Any relation to the former Woolwich Borough Engineer, Jillie42?
I have absolutely no idea! Who is the Woolwich Borough Engineer?
Jillie
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My mum's family was called Sutcliffe and although the last 4 generations were born and bred in SE London there was always a myth that the family owned cotton mills in Yorkshire...........and I've found out that yes, we came from Todmordon, Calderdale, West Riding of Yorkshire......... but we certainly never owned any mills - simply worked in them with both Daniel and his son John (gt gt granfather and gt grandfather) being engineers.
Yorkshire & Sutcliffe makes me think of Peter Sutcliffe
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J. Sutcliffe - Sutcliffe Park in Eltham was named after him.
Dimps
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A story passed down in my husband's family has one of his ancestors, (family name Warburton), inventing the loom that weaves velvet in the mid 1800's, but cheated out of the recognition and fortune by his partner.
I have found the name Warburton in a weaving book of the time and also on a website that gives the history of Addingham - Low Mill in Yorkshire and it sort of matches part of the story, but says that the partner bought him out well before the invention, but no first name is mentioned and so I cannot match him up to any of the family.
I'll just have to keep on searching!
Anyone got any ideas?
Sharpie
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A story passed down in my husband's family has one of his ancestors, (family name Warburton), inventing the loom that weaves velvet in the mid 1800's, but cheated out of the recognition and fortune by his partner.
I have found the name Warburton in a weaving book of the time and also on a website that gives the history of Addingham - Low Mill in Yorkshire and it sort of matches part of the story, but says that the partner bought him out well before the invention, but no first name is mentioned and so I cannot match him up to any of the family.
I'll just have to keep on searching!
Anyone got any ideas?
Sharpie
Is there a Warburton on the 1841 and 1851 census covering Addingham that mentions and inventor or engineer or simply working in a mill?
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I have searched but was unable to find anyone living locally on the census.
How far would people been able to "commute" at that time?
Sharpie
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Apparently my great great grandad 'sold' his daughter, aged about 13/14 into a marriage to a violent Scotsman (they were from Berkshire -andhe was a generally nasty character by all accounts). He took her to live in some remote part of Scotland where she had two little boys, her husband would beat her and treat her as a servant. At some point after WW1 she met a soldier, fell in love and ran off to America, leaving her children behind. There is no doubt she ended up in America, however I have not been able to find her marriage to the Scotsman.
Another one is that a family member married a gypsy girl, meaning his family disowned him, but having bouhg the marriage certs etc it is quite clear she wasn't, was probably more a case that the family didn't like her!