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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: SingNic on Wednesday 05 September 07 10:13 BST (UK)

Title: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: SingNic on Wednesday 05 September 07 10:13 BST (UK)
Hi,

just trying to confirm something, a brother of my granddad served in the Northumberland Fusiliers in WWI the pictures in uniform I have which I felt sure was him have cap badges that look nothing like the fusilier badges you see on various websites.

The badge looks big and round with the laurels around it, the inside is unclear in the photo. Can this be him and the Northumberland's?

Help appreciated,
Nic
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Thursday 06 September 07 19:43 BST (UK)
Hi Nic

Can you help us by posting the photo and the soldier's name, where he was born/from and also did he survive the war?

 :)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: SingNic on Thursday 06 September 07 22:17 BST (UK)
OK My great Uncle was Arthur Pulford, born June Q 1877 in Beccles Suffolk,

I attach his joining medical document and a picture of him in classic soldier studio situation.

Hope you can get near that cap badge, not like the classic Fusiliers badge.

Thanks for helping.
Nic
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: old rowley on Thursday 06 September 07 23:46 BST (UK)
when he first enlisted he joined the Essex Regiment then transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers after which, after being unfit or too old for overseas service, he was again transferred this time into the Royal Defence Corps. I believe that the cap badge in the photograph is that of the Pompadour's, The Essex Regiment.  You can down load his medal card for £ 3.50 from the national archives site
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


old rowley
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Thursday 06 September 07 23:52 BST (UK)
Hi Nic

Well according to his document, Arthur enlisted into the Essex Regiment, Regimental number 31072 - but it does not look like an Essex cap badge to me.  Then he transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers, Regimental number 44445, and like you say his cap badge does not bear resemblance to them.  

He was later in 468 Prot. Coy. Royal Defence Corp Regimental number 71976.

So could his cap badge be the latter of the three units he was with?  Here is is medal card, I wonder if it will reveal anymore about Arthur!:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01vu/

 ;)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Thursday 06 September 07 23:56 BST (UK)
Snap Old Rowley

Well at least we are working toward the same aim, and you appear to have an handle on the Pompadours!   8)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: old rowley on Friday 07 September 07 00:37 BST (UK)
being an Essex Calf I have always been interested in my old county regiment Atom. I am not sure if the men of the RDC used their former regiment cap badge or not when serving in that unit, if that is the case then I would have thought that he would have been wearing the Northumberlands badge. When the picture is lightened there also appears to be an arm of service strip on his upper arm.

old rowley
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: SingNic on Friday 07 September 07 15:41 BST (UK)
Hey thanks for that, I thought the last bit was just a part of the Fullerliers. Even with that information I cannot find a Cap badge that matches.

The medical card download isn't that going to be the same as the one I put up here. As I watch my pennies I do not want to pay for somethin I already have.

I think I have problems with different great uncles and some times dobt weather the attribution of people to photos. There is only one living realative who had any contact with these people and I haven't met her, but she has seen these photos.

Any way thanks for the help, I might be back later for more help.

Nic
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: old rowley on Friday 07 September 07 16:03 BST (UK)
Nic,

The medal index card that I refer to above gives limited information but what it does give is details of any medals or awards that he would have received. Sometimes it also gives the theatre of war that he went to, France/Balkans etc. It does not give personal details about the soldier etc except for name rank and regiment(s). It can be, at times, worth the small amount of £3.50 to download this image. If you do obtain it, post it up and I am sure someone will help you to decipher it.

old rowley
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Friday 07 September 07 16:52 BST (UK)
Yes, the medal[/color] index cards should tell you the medals he was awarded and often the theatres of war, and you have it there at your fingertips at the click of a button on the link I sent you.

Old Rowley, have you not got a Pompadour's (Essex) badge to post meantime!  :)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: old rowley on Friday 07 September 07 17:19 BST (UK)
(http://)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: old rowley on Friday 07 September 07 17:21 BST (UK)
bit big but as its the first one that I have posted (picture that is) I'm suprised that it got here  ;D

old rowley
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Friday 07 September 07 18:02 BST (UK)
Well Done on the badge post!

There will be no stopping you now, lol.  :)

Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 07 September 07 22:21 BST (UK)
being an Essex Calf I have always been interested in my old county regiment Atom. I am not sure if the men of the RDC used their former regiment cap badge or not when serving in that unit, if that is the case then I would have thought that he would have been wearing the Northumberlands badge. When the picture is lightened there also appears to be an arm of service strip on his upper arm.

old rowley

Don't think it would be an AOS stripe....They were found on WW2 uniforms bu not WW1...

Could be part of a brigade/regimental flash which came very much to the fore in WW1

The badge does look like an Essex to a degree, but the hat may have slipped and smudged it during exposure...

The RDC cap badge was just a royal cypher, and the pic is more of an enlistment one...witness the belt...
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: old rowley on Friday 07 September 07 23:01 BST (UK)
thanks for correcting me scrimm' on the stripe I have only seen a few on ww1 pictures and got the titles mixed up from the reference book that I was using earlier (note to ones self........make sure that you are looking at the correct page at the time before answering  ;D ).

old rowley
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Friday 07 September 07 23:25 BST (UK)
Scrim

Great in theory, but what's this hat slipping bit during exposure all about to the lay person!!!

Is it an Essex badge or not?  ::)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: SingNic on Saturday 08 September 07 13:24 BST (UK)
Hi Great Discussion,

however, as implied in my last email, thing were not clear as to who was who. So with further comparing and using what we knew were accurate here a couple more photos of Arthur.

Also found his records on Ancestry so I can see he spent only a few months in France and a year in Dublin.

The Badge seems to be the Essex badge as far as I can tell. The reason I started out with Northumberland Fus. was that was what was given in The Beccels Men in WWI a book which I have transcribed and put on the foxearth website.

In the photo with two soldiers the younger one his brother Albert was said to be in the Northampton Reg. The cap badge is consistant with that. Cannot find Albert's record on Ancestry.

Thanks for the help,
Nic
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Saturday 08 September 07 14:03 BST (UK)
Great photos Nic  :D and I am sure that Scrimnet can fill you in on the Northampton regiment in the war.

Did Albert survive the war, do you know?
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: atom12 on Saturday 08 September 07 14:19 BST (UK)
Perhpas this is Albert's medal index card.  There is only the initials A J, but you will see that as well as the Northamptonshire regiment, he also served with the Essex regiment:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01vy/

Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: SingNic on Saturday 08 September 07 21:47 BST (UK)
Hi Atom 12,

No that is not him he is not him he is Albert M and servered 1916 - 1919 according to 'Beccles men'.

Both Albert and Arthur survive the war and had families.

Piecing it all together gradually. You know in FH one tends to try, or rather we have, to go back as far and as fast as one can forgetting to document what is not that long gone. I also like the idea of trying to trace all living relatives. I'm still forgetting the ones that are reltively close.

Nic
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: scrimnet on Sunday 09 September 07 20:29 BST (UK)
Hello all...back from a weekend of doing Heritage Open Days!!

Now then the photos......

The one with the x2 chaps on shows the chap standing in the Cambridgeshires, and he chap seated, Essex...

If you compare with my avatar of the Northamptons, you can see that although the Gibraltar Castle are the same, the Essex Regt is surmounted by a sphynx...

Scrim

Great in theory, but what's this hat slipping bit during exposure all about to the lay person!!!

Is it an Essex badge or not?  ::)

As for that question.... In those days a long exposure was required for cameras...all I was suggesting was that a slight movement during that may have smudged the badge!!   ;)
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: SingNic on Sunday 09 September 07 21:30 BST (UK)
I sure I must be getting senile, yes he was in the Cambridgeshire Reg. So it is a fit.

The photo collection remains a problem but at least those two are in place which is a major advance. Apparently we have more photos on the way. So frequently in FH answers give rise to more questions. So Onward and up-wards.

So thanks for all the help you two. I might be back with another problem, but a new thread.

Thanks,
Nic
Title: Re: WWI Hat Badge Northumberland Reg.
Post by: scrimnet on Sunday 09 September 07 22:00 BST (UK)
No probs!!

Especially if Northamptons are involved!!!  ;D ;D ;D