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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Murgie on Tuesday 04 September 07 20:30 BST (UK)
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I am having trouble with an Ellis family living in Ponkey. On Sarah Ellis' marriage certificate to Edward Pritchard in 1866 married in the Parish of Ruabon, it states that Sarah is 19, she is a spinster living in Ponkey and her father is a Collier called Richard Ellis.
In 1901 she states that her place of birth is Ruabon (she is living in Carlton, Yks)
In 1891 she states that her place of birth is Rhos (she is living in Southsea, Wrexham)
In 1881 she states that her place of birth is Ruabon
In 1871 she states that her place of birth is Ruabon, Rhos
Now looking back further, in 1851 there is a family living in Ponkey with a father called Richard Ellis. His wife is Sarah and they have 2 sons called Joseph (6) and Amos (4). These 2 children also have an IGI entry, but don't appear to have a sister by the name of Sarah. I can't find them at all on the 1861 census, but can follow Richard on the 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 census.
Does anyone have any ideas please?
I'm not having much luck with the Pritchards either as Edward can't decide if he was born in Birkenhead or Wales!
Thank you in anticipation.
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Hi Murgey :)
Ponkey/Rhos was in the old parish of Ruabon until it was divided in the 1850s (?) so it is quite understandable that she would use the alternative birthplaces. When she was in Wrexham, they would have known where Rhos was but when she was in Yorkshire, it was more likely that she would use the larger place name. I have used Wrexham as my birthplace before now, thinking that Chirk was too small :-\
It is possible that the folio that she was on is one of the missing ones in the 1861 (quite a lot of those from the area seem to have been destroyed). The 1851 census is not available on Ancestry so you wouldn't find the family on that - but I see you have one!
The North Wales BMD index shows a possible birth registration for Sarah - 1846, Ruabon sub-district.
It would be worth checking it out and phoning the Wrexham office to see if her father is Richard:
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk
The site will give all the necessary contact details.
Regards
Gadget
PS - Richard Ellis was not that unusual a name in the area
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PPS
Could you give us some more info on Edward pritchard - we could have a look :)
Paul might be able to check the parish registers for the marriage (St Mary's Ruabon on the NW BMD) - it might give more info and witnesses, etc. I'll PM him.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
Many thanks for your reply and your advice to phone Wrexham.
I did get the 1851 census from Ancestry.com. The reference is HO107/2503 Fo 356 p36 and Ponkey is classified as Moreton Above. The family have been transcribed as Elles.
There were a few addresses in Ponkey in 1861, but I did wonder if some had been destroyed. Thank you for confirming that.
The marriage certificate states that Edward Pritchard 21 and a collier is a bachelor living in Ponkey with John Pritchard, a collier as his father.
In 1901 and living in Carlton, Yorkshire, Edward states that his place of birth is Birkenhead.
In 1891 living in Southsea, again states Birkenhead.
In 1881 living in Ruabon states Birkenhead
Finally in 1871 his birth place is Birkenhead when he is living in Chesterton, Staffordshire.
Before this any spelling of Pritchard I can think of doesn't have Edward popping up either in Wales or England. Any ideas would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Murgie
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Hi Murgie
The ages of the boys do look pretty close to squeeze another child in!
Amos was Ruabon, 1847
Joseph was Ruabon 1844 or 1845.
If Joseph was 1844 then it would just be possible for the 1846 Sarah to fit :-\
There is a marriage of Sarah Jarvis and RichardEllis, St Giles, Wrexham on the NW BMD.
I'll check up on the Pritchards later - have you checked FreeBMD for a registration circa 1844 ish?
Gadget
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Have you seen this Edward Pritchard on the 1851:
HO107/2192 Folio 638 Page 27
?Smithdown Lane, West Derby, Liverpool
John Pritchard, 28, labourer, b. Denbs, Gresford
Eliza, 27, b. Rhosllanerchrugog
Edward, 5, b. Liverpool
Sarah, 4, b. Liverpool
Thomas, 2, b. Liverpool
It's the nearest that I can find!
Gadget
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PPS
Could you give us some more info on Edward pritchard - we could have a look :)
Paul might be able to check the parish registers for the marriage (St Mary's Ruabon on the NW BMD) - it might give more info and witnesses, etc. I'll PM him.
Gadget
Great minds Gadget ;)I was already on my way when you P M'd me :)
Hello Murgie,
First thing I looked for was Sarah's marriage. On her marriage cert her Dad is Robert not Richard.
Ruabon marriage. Sep 18 1866.
Edward Pritchard. 21. Bachelor. Occ, Collier. Abode, Ponkey. Father, John. Occ Collier.
Sarah Ellis(X). 19. Spinster. Abode, Ponkey. Father, ROBERT. Occ, Collier.
Witnesses. Edward Ellis and Mary Parry.
I did find a marriage of a Joseph Ellis, Father, Richard.
Sep 1 1866. (Didn't have to look far)
Joseph Ellis. 22. (X) Bachelor. Collier. Ponkey. Father, Richard. Collier.
Ruth Davies. 21. (X) Spinster. Abode, Ponkey. Father, Thomas. Collier.
Witnesses. Amos Ellis(X) and Sarah Davies(X)
(X)=Did not sign made mark.
It looks to me like Sarah is from a different Family.
Couldn't see baptisms for any of them.
The only baptisms I could see for children of Robert or Richard Ellis are.
Nov 9 1845. William S/O Richard & Mary Ellis. Stonemason
June 7 1847. Anne. D/O. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Oct 6 1850. Caroline. D/O. """""""""""""""""""""""
pAUL.
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Hi Paul :D
Murgie
There is no Sarah Ellis with father Robert on the 1851 or 1861 censuses which suggests to me that they are missing in 1861 and in a part of Ruabon that isn't included on the 1851 :(
If you could get the birth cert for the Sarah thatI found (now checking for a father Robert). it would give her mother'sname which might help in identifying them on the 1841 and/or their marriage.
Suddenly realised that there is a possible link - my 2 x great grandmother's brother was Robert Ellis, a miner, who lived in those parts. He was born 1826, Llangynog, Montgomeryshire :o
I have their details on the censuses but they're in Scotland and I'm not :-\
Gadget
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Gadget and Paul
Thank you very much for your efforts. ;D
I hadn't looked for Edward as being born in Liverpool and there is also a Rhos link there too, so this one looks like a real possibility - thank you!
Have you seen this Edward Pritchard on the 1851:
HO107/2192 Folio 638 Page 27
?Smithdown Lane, West Derby, Liverpool
John Pritchard, 28, labourer, b. Denbs, Gresford
Eliza, 27, b. Rhosllanerchrugog
Edward, 5, b. Liverpool
Sarah, 4, b. Liverpool
Thomas, 2, b. Liverpool
Thank you also Paul for putting me on the straight and narrow with Robert not Richard Ellis.
I will contact the people that you have suggested.
Many thanks again!
Murgey
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don't forget that Ponkey is really Ponciau - Ponkey is the anglicised spelling. - it was widely used, until quite recently, but the Welsh spelling might well have slipped in somewhere.
Rachel
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not sure its of help.but just reading this post.
i have a sarah ellis b 1843 ruabon daughter of edward and ann of ruabon and sister to elizabeth.
sarah married samuel pritchard b 1834 chirk parents george and elizabeth roberts
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Just to say that this is a very old thread - Murgie hasn't been on the site since 2010.
Gadget
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o/k diolch