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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Archimedes on Monday 27 August 07 20:49 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm very new on here and offer my apologies if I've got this on the wrong board. Please be gentle with me and point me in the right direction.
I am looking for some advice on how to proceed. My Gt Grandfather was John Nye and I have found him on a number of Census' In 1871 he is in Herefordshire as a farm servant and he says he is born in Cuckfield Sussex, the next time in 1881 he was now in Whitchurch Shropshire and says her was born in Herefordshire, and he says the same again in 1891 still living in Shropshire. But by 1901 he is in Liverpool and on that census he says he was born in Cuckfield Sussex again.
I am convinced it is the same man as he gets married in Shrophire and he and his wife have about 16 children and they link up throughout the later census'
What I'm trying to find is his birth registration according to his age on all the census' he would have been born in 1853 or 1854. But I can't find him on the 1861 census nor in the indexes of births. I have checked with the parish clerk for Cuckfield and and there is no John Nye in that period.
On his marriage cert it says his father was also John Nye a stonemason. I know that Nye is a Kent and Sussex name coz as a child my parents moved from Liverpool to Kent. How surprised were we to discover that there were lots of Nye's, in Liverpool we were related to almost all the Nye's in the city! Dad says that there was a family story that his Grandfather came from "Down South" but I just don't know how ro proceed now the obvious channels coming up blank.
I would go to the record office but I don't even know what to ask for to look at.
Any suggestions gratefully recieved.
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First of all, welcome to Rootschat!
Free BMD had Frederick John Nye born Oc/Nov/Dec 1850 and John Nye born Oc/Nov/Dec 1858, both Cuckfield.
HAve you ruled these two out? Census ages can be several years out!
Looking at it logically - if there is no John Nye born in Cuckfield in 1853/4, (and you have checked that out)then one aspect must be incorrect, so you need to work through them logically. Either it is the name, the date, or the place! (or more than one, in which case you are really stumped!)
So, starting with the date, you could investigate the ones I noted earlier.
by the way - Have you just looked on the free BMD data base? Or have you been through the full birth indexes quarter by quarter for these years?
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Thanks Lizdb.
I don't think I'd discounted either of these John Nye's just had sort of thought that since he was always so reliable about his age over 40 years that it might be right. But i take your point and and am off to investigate the web site you memtioned. Uptill now I've only used the Ancestry co uk birth search and the index lists but with these perhaps I have been working in to small a range of dates.
Thank you I've been going round in circles looking for John Nye's on the census with Stonemason/Bricklayer fathers and getting no where.
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Hi
I am sure I posted an answer to this earlier today but it seems to have disappeared. Cannot remember all my words of wisdom now either!
There were several churches in Cuckfield at that time - some independent ones as well as Holy Trinity. Did the Online Parish Clerk check all those for baptisms for you?
There are quite a few Nyes living in the Cuckfield area in 1851 and 61 but not the one you want as far as I can see but there are many small villages around that come under the Cuckfield umbrella as it was the main town of the area at that time so he may be in one of those.
Is there any chance that his father might have left a will? Have you found any likely candidates for his father in 1851?
Andrea
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I see that by 1901 he has gained the middle initial H. Does that appear on his marriage or death certificate? The names of his children are unusual. Beatrice, Rose, Grace etc so they may be a clue - unless they all come from his wife's family.
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
I'm fairly sure that the H is for Henry as his eldest son was John Henry Nye.
On the Marriage cert he is down as just John Nye.
I have looked at all the possible Nye familys in Kent and Sussex in 1861 for a father John and Son John combination with out success. But there is a death of a John Nye in Cuckfield in 1853 (I think) so I wondered if his dad died and his mother remarried before the 1861 census.
I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and spend the £ on possible birth cert and death certs to sort this out.
I don't know if the online parish clerk only checked the parish church records. But thinking about it John Nye and Eliza Wright were married in a Weslyian Methodist Chapel in Cheshire, so he would be more likely to be on the methodist church register. That might be the place to look. Do you know if that would be on line or would I need to go to the west sussex record office?
Thank you for all the leads I will write them out and check them all out in a systematic fashion, instead of snarling every time my family ask how I'm doing with John Nye. LOL
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Using the wider date range for John Nye I have come up with a possible result but not in Cuckfield. I've found a John Neigh born 1848 in Wales with a dad George Neigh who is a Mason on the 1851 Wales census. Do you think this is a possible or am I clutching at straws?
Also there is a George Henry Nye born in Wales in 1854 registered Cardiff. Goes from famine to feast.
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Hmmm I would innitially say this is clutching at straws.
but sometimes you have to do that in genealogy, and sometimes - just sometimes - one of those straws turns out to be the vital link!
I would put these Welsh findings to one side, keep them safe (NEVER throw anything away in this game! you really never know when it might become relevant) and pursue other lines first.
If, in the distant future, you suddenly come up with a link to Wales, I dont know something like you find John's Grandfather came from there or something, still a family of stonemasons, and had another son, George (I am making this up as I go along!) you can immediately say 'OOH I have something on him that might tie in'
Or it might stay in your 'miscellaneus' file for ever, along with lots of other snippets of irrelevancy!!!!!
that's how it goes!
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Thanks. Working one your own means that little stuff gets out of perspective unless you get to talk it over with someone.
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I am assuming that the name of his father. John nye, came from the marriage cert. Does this say 'deceased' for the father ? (just following on from an earlier theory that his dad died)
And... of course there is always the chance he ws ilegitimate, but just 'made up' a father for the marriage cert - wouldnt have been the first!
but - in either event, he should still have a birth registered, and should still be on 1861 and 1851 censuses - somewhere.
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If you find you have a connection with NYE in Kent please let me know as I know a John Nye in Tunbridge Wells.
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Yes, it says the Father is John Nye Deceased Stonemason on the marriage cert.
But that in itself is interesting coz the Nye name is Kent and Sussex and a lots of the Nyes are listed as Bricklayers and Bricksetters on the census (Mainly over in the Chatham area, but I suspect that was were most of the work was). There is even a family in Cuckfield with the Head William Nye who was a Bricklayer master employing 3 men in 1851. But I traced all the children on the census and they all seem to go into the Grocery Business and one became a Piano Maker. And there was no John.
I've no idea how to look for illegitamate children. There is a servant in the house called Hannah Ede (She is miss listed on Ancestory transcripts as Hannah Nye), perhaps i could start with her?
There is a strange family connection to Wales in that one of John Henry's children called Arthur Willian had something of a checked history including getting court martialled in the Navy for thumping his officer and then he lied on the draft papers and joined up to serve in the army in WW1. But sometime between getting out of Navy prison (He did 2years hard labour) and joining up he managed to father an illegitamate child in birth registered in 1912 in Bridgend Glamorgan. I wondered when I found that what he was doing down their and why wasn't he in Liverpool with the rest of the family. Perhaps this is a clue.
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Oh and if I get my John Nye back to Kent or sussex I promise to let everyone know. :)
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I think the key tothis will be to find little John on the 1861 census when he is about 6-8 years old.
Sadly I havent got full access, but there seem to be a few possible candidates in the index around that age. would be good to go through those, and see if any are possibles or if any can be eliminated, bearing in miind that his dad 'john' may be dead, or indeed there is always the possibilty that he was just a made up dad, so we cant rule out any just cos their dad is not John!! of course if their dad is clearly someone else Nye, then I guess they can be ruled out. If you follow me.
Anyway - hopefully another rootschatter with full access to 1861 will pick this up. If not, I suggret you try a specific 'look up' request on the Sussex 'look up' board for a look up in 1861 for John Nye born 1853-54.
Hope you find him!
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I have looked for him in 1861 in Sussex without success. Will try again tomorrow when I have more time. I still think the names of his children might offer clues.
Andrea
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will go and explore the name sthing, but was convinced that they were Royal Family names.hey are
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John Henry Nye
Beatrice Nye
William Nye
Charles Leonard Nye
Grace Ellen Nye
George Stephen Nye
Ada Nye
Earnest Edward Nye
Rose Nye
Arthur William Nye
Jessie May Nye
Albert Edward Nye
Ethel Nye
Albert Edward Nye
Percy Albert Nye
And yes I do have 2 albert Edwards and they both died in childhood.
I want to thank you folk for helping me and making me so welcome. It has been so good to talk this out loud instead of it going round and round in my head.
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Still can't find him. Thought of lots more spelling variants though. Ney, Nigh, Neigh etc.
Who were the witnesses at his wedding? They are often siblings so that might help. What age and occupation is he at marriage?
The William Nye you mention in Cuckfield in 1851 actually lives in Handcross and was born Rusper. Cuckfield was the main registration district for a large area in those days so it is always worth checking which village they live in as the church records there may hold clues.
Illegitimate births are hard as the birth is registered under the mother's name. If she later marries then the child might be brought up with his stepfather's name - whether he was the real father or not. It can be very confusing. There is no evidence here that John was not always known as Nye but not being able to find him in 1861 is a pest!
Andrea
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I have read all of ur posts here.
My interest is in Edmund Nye who arrived in Aust as a convict in 1830.
Edmund was borning in Ferring Sussex in 1811.
There was a John Nye in this line as well, so its not an easy line to fine.
I've found (with the help of some wonderful ppl on the net) a lot of information on Edmund and which includes his brothers and sisters names as well as his parents name William and Mary (nee Hills)
If you find any connection would love to hear from you.
Bushie
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Hi
Checked all images on the 1861 Census in Cuckfield and no Nyes, BUT The Union Workhouse there has only initials, so they may well be there but I don't think you'll be able to confirm via the Census if they are.
My husband has a Martha Nye 1763-1823 from Chichester, Sussex. ::)
Wendy :(
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Many thanks for that information. There is a family story that John and a brother were in the work house so maybe that is the answer.