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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: garstonite on Monday 27 August 07 08:57 BST (UK)
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hi.. i have been researching the merrick family from norton canon for 4 years now..i have extensive info on the merricks..but not their wives..so if anybody has any of these ladies in their tree,i would appreciate some info...as follows....
ANN JEFFS b abt 1695 LLANDINABO married john merrick in 1716 in llandinabo
their son simon merrick married ELLINOR DAVIES b 1730 letton,they had 4 children..ellinor died then simon married elizabeth stringham b 1739 eardisley
simon and elizabeth had 5 children.
simon and ellinor davies had a son edward merrickb 1757 bridge sollars..he married MARY NICOLLS b 1760 bridge sollars.their son thomas merrick b 1798 norton canon married ANN PHILLIPS b 1791 norton canon.....their son edward merrick b 1828 norton canon married ANNE TAYLOR b 1829 dilwyn(parents thomas and mary both b 1801 and a sister elizabeth b 1835)....edward and anne had 3 children,all born ocle pychard,anna merrick 1850/marianne merrick b 1852 and william taylor merrick b 1856.....MARIANNE MERRICK married DANIEL OAKES my gg grandfather in garston liverpool in 1874.....i live in garston,Liverpool,so you can see how difficult it is for me to do research in ,
norton canon/llandinabo/eardisley/bridge sollars/dilwyn/letton so i am researching all the wives in capital letters.
ANN JEFFS -1695 LLANDINABO
ELLINOR DAVIES 1730 LETTON
MARY NICOLLS b 1760 BRIDGE SOLLARS
ANN PHILLIPS B 1791 N/CANON
ANNE TAYLOR B 1829 DILWYN
and also the last 2 merricks in my family tree ANNA MERRICK B 1850 OCLE PYCHARD and WILLIAM TAYLOR MERRICK B 1856 OCLE PYCHARD............very long winded i know,but its about time i got more details on the wives of the merricks......thanks in anticipation.....allan oakes ;) ;) ;)
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i`ve found out ann taylors parents were....william taylor b 1802 Dilwyn and Mary Jones b 1798 Dilwyn...any info on these would be appreciated...regards...allan
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I am nudging this thread up in case any new members in the last 15 months can help...fingers crossed....allan :)
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Dear Alan
I can't recall whether we have been in touch before. I haven't used this forum much (mainly use ancestry.co.uk) but I think we have a lot of common ancestors re Merricks and Oakes.
Mary Ann Merrick 1852-1913 is my great grandmother and Daniel Oakes a great grandfather.
I have some information on both sides of the family but looking at some of the strings of information on this site you seem to be way ahead of me. I have got back to Simon Merrick on direct Merrick line and a name only for his father John Merrick.
On Oakes line I have got back to John oakes 1786 and his father Thomas but no further information.
I have photos of several of the Merrick gravestones in Norton Canon and Sarnesfield if those are of interest. if you have information/photos/documents you can share on these lines or other researchers you know looking at same areas it would be much appreciated.
thanks
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Hiya Jm...this is great news for me...no, we haven`t been in touch before and I am really looking forward to exchanging info....Marianne Merrick / Mary Ann moved here to Garston and married my GG Grandfather Daniel Oakes..
my name is Allan Oakes and I live in Garston..
You have gone a little astray somewhere Jm.....my Oakes line as follows..DIRECT ancestors AND YOURS I will type in capitals
RALPH OAKES b abt 1727 in Over, ,Cheshire married Mary Trelfa b 1736 Over ,Cheshire on 2nd January 1758 at St Chads church,Over ,Winsford,Cheshire.....their children
William b 1758 Middlewich
John 1760 .......
Thomas 1761
Ralph 1764
Joseph 1765
Mary 1767
Richard 1770
Hannah 1772
Samuel 1774
Elizabeth 1776...these were all born in Middlewich...I have their Babtism dates if you want them
Peter 1779 in Backford ,Cheshire
DANIEL OAKES 1782 - 1859 in Backford
Hannah 1790 in Backford
DANIEL OAKES married an Elizabeth UNKNOWN. 1783 - 1870....a bugbear in my research......their children
THOMAS OAKES b 1817 Poulton cum Spittle , Neston, Cheshire
Mary Oakes b 1820 Neston
William Oakes b 1822 Neston
THOMAS OAKES B 1817 married ELLEN ANYON b 1820 Neston,Cheshire in March 1840 in Neston....their children
William Oakes 1842
Thomas Oakes 1843
Samuel Oakes b 1847
DANIEL OAKES B 1849 - 1904 Neston
Mary Oakes 1853
James Oakes 1856
Ann Oakes 1859
Joseph Oakes 1862
DANIEL OAKES married MARY ANN MERRICK in our local church St Michaels ,Garston ,Liverpool in 1874....children
Thomas 1874
Ellen 1875 .....in touch with her g grandson in New York
William 1877.......my direct ancestor
Daniel 1880
Mary 1881
Beatrice 1884
James 1885
Harriet 1888
Sarah 1890
Elizabeth 1894
OK go to www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb click DATABASE then BABTISM then fill in the box oakes ...on page 6 you will see BACK 7820126 OAKES DANL BACK BACKC 00900595
click on the circle AND the square next to the name and you will see the babtism ...the number 7820126 is actually
(1)782 - 01 - 26 thus 26th Jan 1782 ..this the day Daniel Oakes was babtised...a tricky site at first, but you will get a lot of info on the family...if you get stuck, let me know
Start with Daniel....Thomas born 1817 is on page 8....you can get all the babtisms /marriages /Burials...and then from 1841/51/61 you will find them all on the census returns.....good luck
so....how are you related to Daniel /Mary Ann Merrick ?
allan ;)
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Dear Allan
thanks for replying so quickly. My name is John Martin. Thanks for advice on Oakes line. Yes it looks like I have taken Thomas Oakes (1817) parents as being John and Anne from Davenham. I was using the database you mentioned but clearly I had missed the correct link from Thomas to father Daniel. That makes a lot more sense because my grandmother Harriet Oakes (daughter of Daniel b 1849) married my grandfather Harold Phillips in Wisaston, Nantwich which I have never understood. I guess it is because it is not far from Winsford and ancestral stamping grounds and also perhaps half way for those travelling up from Herefordshire (H Phillips came from Ross on Wye area) to wedding.
I will rerun the dates on Oakes and get back to you if I have queries. What is your link to Oakes line and being a Garston man do you have photos of Oakes residences (eg Banks Rd) and/or headstones? I haven't any photos of Oakes - would love to find one of Daniel for example. I do have photo of my grandmother harriet with her widowed mum Mary Ann Oakes outside their cottage, Brook House in Weobley. My grandfather used to cycle from Walford (near Ross) to Weobley every Sunday whilst they were 'courting' to see her. Quite a distance on an old-fashioned bike.
I don't suppose you have any idea how Mary ann Merrick met Daniel do you? Was Mary ann in service in Liverpool?
I now live in Hereford (hence recent interest in family history) and have photos of Merricks gravestones in Norton Canon and Sarnesfield if of interest.
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Hiya John...right...you may be able to help here...Daniel Oakes was married to Ann Evason in 1871 in Liverpool
go to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk 1871 for the Ann Evason marriage and 1874 for the Mary Ann Merrick marriage.
Ann Evason was born in Kidderminster and went home to Kidderminster in 1873 to die...I don`t know how far Kidderminster is from the Ocle Pychard / Norton Canon area but it seems a little strange that a Blacksmith from Neston who moved to Liverpool should marry 2 ladies from around the area Ocle Pychard and Kidderminster..HOW did he meet Ann Evason and Mary Ann Merrick...were they friends...did Daniel and Ann Evason have a child ?...did Ann die in childbirth...all unanswered questions...
and for the record...I have Marianne Merrick..on www.familysearch.org it has her babtism as MARIANNE....her marriage states MARY ANN ...do you by any chance have any other official records ??
as for H Phillips coming up for the wedding from Herefordshire ?? Marianne Merricks grandmother was Ann Phillips b 1791 Norton Canon.....could H Phillips have been Mariannes cousin??
I would be over the moon to see that photo of Marianne Oakes (Merrick) ...you have to understand that there are so so many Oakes here in Garston / South Liverpool that are all descended from Marianne ...hope you don`t mind me calling her Marianne , but as that is the name at her babtism , I have always called her Marianne ;)
allan :)
allan
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Re the Photo ....John...was Brook House the cottage where Marianne eventually died in ?
is it still standing ?...My wife and I came to Norton Canon 2 years ago and we visited a lot of the villages where the Merricks came from ......we may come down again in the summer...we stayed in Eardisley last time ....I would love to see that cottage if it`s still standing.....would it be possible to send me that photo via e-mail...I will PM you my addy
allan :)
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Just read jm12's message saying:
On Oakes line I have got back to John oakes 1786 and his father Thomas but no further information.
As John Oakes is my great-great-great grandfather, is there any further information? Wasn't aware his father was a Thomas.
I still live near St Chads and have same name as my 3x great grandfather!
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Hiya John....this sounds very interesting to me....are you related to Daniel Oakes b 1849 ??...his father Thomas 1817 ??....Daniel 1782 ...Ralph b 1727 ???....I don`t have a John Oakes b 1786 in my tree....so I am a little baffled ?....allan
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Re John Oakes b 1786 ???....do you know where he was born ?
allan
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No mention of where he was born in 1841 census.
He was a salt maker from Wharton (formerly Davenham), Winsford who married an Elizabeth (1784-1855) from Bunbury in 1816. They had 3 children born in Wharton, Samuel (1826-1851), William (1830-1905) and Ralph (my great-great grandfather) 1831-1907).
Wharton is close to Middlewich, so I wonder whether jm12's reference to Thomas, means he could be Ralph and Mary Trelfa's son?
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Are you taking Johns birth year from the 1841 census ??...if so, in that census ages were rounded up to 5 years...
this looks VERY likely to be your John Oakes
John Oakes babtised 8th February 1784 ....born 15th January 1784
father Thomas Oakes ...mother Mary
abode Wharton
registered at Davenham......
4th nov 1783 Thomas Oakes married Mary Cawley registered in Davenham...both lived in Davenport, which I presume is very close to Davenham....this looks to be John Oakes parents....all the info from Cheshire Parish Records Database
allan
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Thanks, Allan
In my records, I have his birthdate as 1784 or 1786; jm12 specifically mentioned 1786, so I presume that reference was from 1841 census.
Of course, Wharton was referred to as being Davenham in those days.
So, who was Thomas's father?
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Thomas Oakes born 27th April 1756
babtised 9th May 1756
Registered in Davenham
father Samuel / Mother Ellin
residence Northwich
allan
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Sorry John....but I can`t find Samuels marriage , so don`t know what Ellins maiden name was ....hang on
Samuel Oakes born 26th march 1741 babtised 30th march 1741 / father Samuel and mother Ellin registered Davenham....abode Leftwich........this appears to be Samuel and Ellins first born...so maybe I need to look for a marriage 1739/40...back soon
allan
SORRY mate...can`t find Samuels marriage or his babtism
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That's interesting!
There appears to be a John and Ralph born or christened at St Chads over around 1730's at St Chad's, Over, now you mention a Samuel.
I picked up an Oakes family tree starting in 1675, Samuel (Cheshire), who had son John (Over,1698), who had son John (Over, 1727), who had, in turn, John (Sandbach, 1749), who had sons John (Over, 1770), William (1776) and Thomas (1781).
Incidently, Davenport is close to Holmes Chapel, which is near Middlewich.
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I have about a dozen in my tree babtised in St Chads, Over....so I think somewhere along the line we will have a connection...Ralph babtised 17/7/1727 is my 6 x g grandfather...father Ralph...3 years later there is Mary Oakes babtised 1730 - father Ralph /mother Mary...so I am pretty certain my 7 x grandparents were Ralph Oakes and Mary Oakes in Over...but the only marriage I can find is Ralph Oakes to Mary Holland who married in St Oswalds Chester...which is where Ralph b 1727 moved to in 1776...but I need PROOF...if you come up against the name Mary Holland /Oakes in your research, I would appreciate it if you let me know....allan
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Our local library has St Chad's (Over) Parish Records on microfilm.
I was thinking of accessing it in the near future.
You mention Cheshire Parish records; would it all be on there anyway and free?
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www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb
go to database
babtism /marriage /burial ....then put in surname...click search....you then get something like 7720523 ...put an imaginary 1 in front and you get
(1)772 = 1772
05 = the month = may
23 becomes the date /day .....so 7720523 becomes 23rd may 1772 ...it`s a little tricky at first but you will get into it....loads and loads of Oakes data.......if you get a little lost, let me know
allan
ADDED...www.familysearch.org then click search ....then Family Search Record Pilot ...they have St Chads records
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That's a useful database.
I notice in some burials, the age at death is given, on others, you see a code, eg something like 0600.
How do you decipher it?
And any other tips?
Hope to get searching and active again once my PC room has been revamped and once I've got up to speed with your information.
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Following on from your suggestion that my 4x great grandfather, Thomas’s (1756) parents were Samuel and Ellin, do you have details that Thomas (1761), Mary Trelfa’s son, moved to Backford, via his children’s marriages/ offspring etc.
If I remember correctly, you had some evidence that most, if not all, of her 9 children baptised in Middlewich moved to Backford, including Thomas.
It’s still a bit surprising that Hannah (born and died 1790) was the last of her 4 children born in Backford as she would have been aged 54! That’s assuming she was born in 1936, 9 years after husband, Ralph Oakes (b. 17/7/1727)- (and I seem to remember Mary’s baptism given as around 1730, St Chad’s, if I remember correctly).
In the 1881 census, the largest concentration of the Oakes name in the UK was centred in Winsford, though this dispersed somewhat by 1981 (I seemed to have lost the link – or it has changed- to the website mapping it out). So, it wouldn’t be surprising if Ralph senior was the one baptised at St Chads (father, John) in 1702.- as suggested by Kiterunner.
So, where does Mary Holland fit in. Sorry, I don’t have any facts, but it’s not unreasonable she came from Backford and married Ralph senior there but lived in Winsford. Why did Mary Trelfa’s family move to Backford in 1776; was it because Ralph senior had passed away and Mary Holland wanted to return to Backford, or was it simply that Ralph junior get a job as church warden, or both (or something else)?
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Hiya John...I totally understand your sceptisism...I have had Mary Trelfa in and out of my tree twice now...the earlier childrens names all appear getting married in the St Oswalds ,Backford , Chester parish records...In my line of thinking , I am at a loss of how to progress....all the christenings of Ralph and Mary`s children in Middlewich are on record....the Backford christenings are on record ...I don`t have the babtism of Mary Trelfa.....I have the death of Mary Oakes (the wife of Ralph )...she died in 1808....aged 72....this makes her born 1735/6 ....I am not 100% convinced of Ralph Oakes b c1700 and Mary Holland b c1704 as being Ralphs parents...I have put a comment in my notes box
ONLY A POSSIBLE - and Only a likely match for Ralph and Mary Holland ...
I think that IF Ralph and Mary Holland are Ralphs parents...they married in ST Oswalds ,Backford ,Chester,,,,
they were both babtised in Over - moved to Chester /Backford - got married ....moved back to Over ...their son Ralph went back to St Oswalds half way through his marriage.....
if the truth be known...I am still a little sceptical about Mary Trelfa being Ralphs wife...as I have no positive proof except that the childrens christian names born in Middlewich -appear getting married in Backford. ?????
other people seem to think this as well...BUT NO PROOF....so again , I have a note saying "not convinced"
what I can say DEFINITELY is that the 4 children of Ralph Oakes babtised in Backford from 1776 and all the rest of the tree are as far as I know my ancestors....the first 8 children and Mary Trelfa...although I am sure are family...I still have no written proof .....
what are your honest thoughts ??
allan
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In 1790, the year Hannah was born, Ralph would have been 63 and Mary Trelfa 54. So, my thought was that she was born to one of their children; I notice Hannah would have been 18 at the time, but wouldn't like to speculate.
Thomas would have been 29, so to return to my original question, do you know whom Thomas married and are there any baptisms for the children.
Your synthesis is not unreasonable given that children baptised in Middlewich crop up in Backford, but I agree getting hold of Mary Trelfa's baptism would help enormously.
How many of the 9 children can you identify in Backford via marriages/baptisms/deaths?
This bit of the tree is new to me and I really wanted to establish unambiguously this Thomas is not in my line- but I will keep a look out for Trelfas and Hollands (Mary).
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Dear John and Allan
sorry I haven't contributed to the discussion to date as I am not so well up on the Oakes' as you both are. John, just to fill you in my grandmother is Harriet Oakes from Garston (g.g.grandaughter of Ralf and Mary) Could Mary Trelsa's baptism be the one on IGI from 1740. It is a bit late but might help with the late childbirth issue. And it is just close enough to Middlewich it seems looking at google maps?:
Name: Mary Trelsa Or Tralsa
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Birth Date:
Christening Date: 07 Jan 1740
Christening Place: Church Minshull, Cheshire, England
Event Place:
Father's Name: William Trelsa Or Tralsa
Mother's Name:
Principal's Marital Status:
Principal's Residence: , Minshull, Cheshire, England
Number: 490
Digital Folder Number: 4018874
Film Number: 2093666
Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
Just to be clear how do we know that Ralf and Mary's children are the one and the same that are both in Middlewich and Backford? I don't quite get it.
best wishes
John Martin
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Well I still live in Winsford near to St Chads and Church Minshull is just down the road from St Chad's and close to Middlewich.
So, I would hazard a guess that this is Mary Trelfa. This would make her 50 in 1990, but why name her last child Hannah, unless Hannah born in Middlewich died.
Yes, and John's last point echos my point, too.
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John...if you look at the notes on my tree re Mary Trelfa....I have made a note saying although I have her in my tree and think she is the Mary that married Ralph re the Backford babtisms...I have no proof...I don`t have any proof of the mother of the mother of the 4 Backford babtisms as being Mary TRELFA...just Mary.....but the children born in Middlewich to Ralph and Mary TRELFA (stated on babtism records) all seem to appear in Backford and marry in Backford after the birth of Elizabeth 1776 ...the first babtism of a child of Ralph and Mary in Backford....
as I stated earlier...I have had Mary Trelfs in and out of my tree TWICE...and I am still not convinced of her being absolutely the Mary in Backford....
allan
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Thanks Allan
Yes I understand that the Ralf and Mary Trelsa from Middlewich are only in our tree provisionally on the basis of circumstantial evidence. I am just wondering what the records are that link the children as possibly from both locations?
Do you therefore have marriage or death details of any of the Oakes sibs (particularly the pre-Elizabeth 1776 sibs) that locates them in Backford - that is apart from younger sibs Daniel who married Elizabeth (and died 1854) and Peter who married Sarah Broster.
all the best
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From memory John - William Oakes- Ralph and Marys firtsborn ..IF IT IS THEIR SON marries Margaret Griffiths ...I will have to check on wwww.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb and also my tree to see the matches
allan
added...got to go for grandchildren soon so I may be away from pc a while
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I found a post of yours on the geneologist's website, as follows:
William oakes / Margaret Griffiths 12th october 1779
William Williams / Mary Oakes 9th nov 1790
Samuel Oakes to Jane Rowlinson 2nd September 1797 all Backford
just found Joseph Oakes with children baptised in Backford also...and Thomas Oakes
That covers 3 marriages with children ~20 years old, so seems credible.
Would like to see details of christenings, too- particularly of Thomas, if, as you say, you found them. And any other information you can provide.
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Which children ?? Backford or Middlewich ?
Backford www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb
Middlewich www.familysearch.org - search - Familysearch Record Pilot
allan
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Allan,
I'm particularly interested in Thomas's children after he moved from Middlewich to Backford.
I was under the impression you have a record of them and could pass it on- thereby I wouldn't have to duplicate what you had already done.
If not, I can do the searches myself.
Thanks, John
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Good morning John...I have just checked my tree and I don`t have a wife or children for Thomas Oakes born 1761...I would be interested to see what you find
allan :)
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Allan,
Maybe I misunderstood your comment on the geneologist website:
just found Joseph Oakes with children baptised in Backford also...and Thomas Oakes
which was included in the enlarged quote of yours given in my penultimate post!
I took it as meaning you found children of Thomas baptised, as well as Joseph.
So, as I understand it, you have evidence for 5 children that could have moved from Middlewich? As well as burials that could be of Ralph and Mary Trelfa?
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No...I have no evidence at all....I have Mary Trelfa and the first 6 children as possibles as the wife and Children of Ralph...I KNOW the 4 children babtised at St Oswalds are the children of Ralph and Mary...but Mary who ???
other people have suggested that Ralph and Mary in Backford are indeed Ralph Oakes and Mary Trelfa who moved from Middlewich....as stated earlier ...I have had Mary Trelfa on my tree in and out TWICE....I have NO evidence that Ralph and Mary in Backford are Ralph and Mary from Middlewich...it has been pointed out to me that the earlier children of Ralph Oakes and Mary Trelfa in Middlewich could be the ones who marry in Backford as the names tally.....
as far as my tree goes ...back to Elizabeth Oakes babtised 1776 St Oswalds ,Backford father Ralph Oakes / mother Mary is the furthest I go back with concrete records....Ralph and Marys deaths on CPRDB give me a year of birth for them..1727 and 1736
the Mary Trelfa and babtisms in Middlewich and Ralph in Middlewich have a question mark next to them ...it was suggested to me to add them to my tree with the proviso of adding notes that I have no proof whether Mary in Backford is indeed Mary Trelfa from Middlewich...it`s a likely but not a definite
allan
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Yes, I understand the problems in you- or anyone - has in gathering unambiguous rather than circumstancial evidence, Allan.
Don't want to labour the point any further, but can you just clarify one small point;
you mention the first six children as possibles.
whereas only 5 are mentioned in my earlier post, taken from one of your posts on the geneologist's website:
William oakes / Margaret Griffiths 12th october 1779
William Williams / Mary Oakes 9th nov 1790
Samuel Oakes to Jane Rowlinson 2nd September 1797 all Backford
just found Joseph Oakes with children baptised in Backford also...and Thomas Oakes
with Samuel being outside the first 6.
I'm just a little confused!
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Sorry ...I should have stated that there was a previous Hannah born 1772 who died , so she wouldn`t have shown as being married in Backford...she would be the sixth child...I presume this is the sixth child you are refering to ??
allan
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Allan,
You give the list of children born to Mary Trelfa in Middlewich as:
William b 1758 Middlewich
John 1760 .......
Thomas 1761
Ralph 1764
Joseph 1765
Mary 1767
Richard 1770
Hannah 1772
Samuel 1774
in which I give the first 6 in bold.
I thought you were refering to the six in bold when you said the first six children as possibles
in your penultimate post.
The 5 I list don't include John or Ralph out of the first 6 but do include Samuel, who is 9th.
I'm just trying to get some sort of consistency between your first 6 children as possibles and my listed 5.
Do I explain myself clearly?
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Sorry John....I`m a little lost now ??......allan ???
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Allan,
I'm in the midst of looking at FamilySearchRecordSearch for Backford and will report back when complete.
Note
I only found a burial for Hannah in 1790 on that site, but there were two Hannahs, one born 1772 and one, 1790. I'd always assumed it was the latter (one born in 1790).
But I've found information that could relate to Thomas (b 1761).
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Allan,
This is my take out, simply from accessing FamilySearchRecordSearch for Backford, only:
Firstly, I don’t know much about Cheshire Land and Tax Assessments or when it was introduced, but I note that Ralph was liable in 1778 in Backford, which may suggest a possibility he was new to the area?
Secondly, I also note that following on from Ralph’s death on 13th Feb 1800, Mary be came liable to Cheshire Land and Tax Assessments (1803)- would this not indicate a tie of Mary (died 1808) to Ralph?
Thirdly, if Mary/Ralph had Elizabeth (1776), Peter (1779) and Daniel (1782) in her late 30s and 40s, the likelihood is that she would have had children before then?
Fourthly, I can find no other reference to Ralph, but there do seem to be coincidences between many of the children of Ralph (1727 Over), and Mary Trelfa (Married 1758 Over) baptised in Middlewich and their namesakes found in Backford after 1776.
William 11 Jun 1758
John 27 Jan 1760
Thomas 7 Oct 1761
Ralph 16 Mar 1764
Joseph 27 Nov 1765
Mary 13 Nov 1767
Richard 16 Apr 1770
Hannah 29 Apr 1772
Samuel 4 May 1774
(Mary’s date of birth is variously listed as around 1730, or 1740 or possibly even 1736)
I’ll discuss these in turn:
William. William oakes / Margaret Griffiths 12th october 1779 and there are children born to them. Also a William died25/51826 in Backford.
John. Can’t find much about John- there is a Cheshire Land and Tax assessment 1795, but could this be for John born to William/Margaret in 1782?
Thomas. Tom Oakes and Margaret had a son, Tom Oakes born to on 30/12/1787; there is a Thomas who died 7/9/1817.
Ralph. Not much about Ralph at all; could he be father of Hannah, born and died 1790?
Joseph. There are children born to Joseph and Anne Oakes around 1790 and a Cheshire Land and Tax Assessment 1789.
Mary. Marriage- William Williams / Mary Oakes 9th Nov 1790 and there are children born to them.
Richard. Only thing I can find is a burial 26,12/1774 at St John the Baptist, Chester.
Hannah. Do you have any record of Hannah (1772), Allan? Did she die?
Samuel. Marriage- Samuel Oakes to Jane Rowlinson 2nd September 1797, Backford. Had children.
Fifthly, As you say, Ralph Oakes’s (17/7/27) parents may be Ralph Oakes (baptism at St Chad's, Over, 14 Jun 1702, father John Oakes) and Mary Holland (St Chad’s 1804?) who married at St Oswald , Chester church on 14th feb 1726.
Allan, I am but a novice in doing this sort of thing, and would be grateful if you could add to, correct or point out erroneous inferences. However, if correct, there is strong circumstantial evidence of connections between families at Backford and Middlewich.
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Thanks John...basically we have accumalated the same info...and we have came to the same problem...
yes ..there is a massive swing towards the family in Backford coming from Middlewich...but...PROOF is needed...I was wondering if Marys ..Will ....would give the confirmation needed
I need to order her will ...I have said this twice now...I think it`s a must....what do you think ???...will it give the proof we need ??....if it mentions the children from Middlewich ,I think we will be on a winner ???
allan
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I've found a will in my line extremely useful, maybe Mary's will, will too?
Of course, my over-riding interest is in showing that Mary Trelfa's son, Thomas, is not in my line, 'cos up to now relatives have him in my line!
I somehow agree with your suggestion that our Thomas has Samuel and Ellin as parents- I think this is where my involvement in this thread pretty much started, stimulated by your contribution!
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Allan,
Did you have any success in obtaining Mary's will?
Secondly, do you happen to have oxydol's e-mail address and his whereabouts (presume UK, but not Cheshire).
John
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not yet John...off on hols for 2 weeks...speak then.....allan
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Allan, whilst searching an unconnected issue, I came across on the 1851 census in Parish of Church Minshull, a Mary ( aged 20) from Garston who was the wife of John Oakes (an agricultural worker, aged 24). They had a daughter, Sarah Ann, born Church Minshull and lived at Lea Green.
This is precisely the area where Mary Trelfa (who married Ralph Oakes of Swanlow, Winsford in 1758) was born.
Secondly, in the 1881 census in the Civil Parish/ Township of Weaver (St Michael’s and All Angels Parish) there is another John Oakes (agricultural labourer) but also, interestingly, a Thomas Trelfa- a farmer aged 45 who owned 190 acres of land at Weaver Wood and employed two workers (possibly at least one being a John Oakes).
In 1871, this John Oakes lived in Ashbrook in Weaver. ( I think his father is Thomas [1781] and the line goes back to Samuel in 1675; I think the two Johns may be related).
This area of Weaver is adjacent to Weaver Chapel in Swanlow Lane, Winsford and I believe Weaver later became part of Darnhall, Winsford. (So, did the Trelfa’s really live more in Darnhall, Winsford than Middlewich as recorded?).
This appears to throw up lots of interconnectivity between Trelfa’s and Oakes’s and between Oakes’s and Garston.
Do you know of these connections?
John
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Hello both
How do we know Ralf Oakes b 1727 is from Swanlow, Winsford?
Is that the area aroudn Swanlow Lane?
John
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Hi John,
A relative of mine recently spent time looking at some old St. Chad's records around 1730 (on microfilm as they provide more information than web sites).
It's incomplete, but there were records of a Ralph OAKES and a Thomas OAKES. who were both shown to be 'of Swanlow'.
Today, we would be talking about the area around Swanlow Lane - which is quite a large area, but in In those days, Over and Swanlow may have been interchangeable. (Winsford comprised Over and Wharton; there was an 'Over and Wharton' railway station!
I'm not sure how far Swanlow Lane extends from the centre of Over up to Weaver Chapel, I'll need to check.
Does that cover your interest, John, or do you have something more specific?
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Just checked Tony Bostock's writings on Swanlow:
The township of Swanlow is entered when Swanlow Lane passes the ancient parish church of St. Chad’s and the Old Star Pub.
It forms a boundary with Darnhall at the junction with Moors Lane, then just past Evan’s farm it forms the division between the townships of Darnhall on the west and Weaver, on the east, before descending the bank, once known as Chivey Hill, to meet the Ashbrook. From here the road changes its name to Over Road as it continues on towards Church Minshull and Nantwich.
(Thomas Trelfa and John Oakes lived by Chivey Hill).
Earlier, for example, in the 1861 census the ‘hamlet’ of Swanlow was defined from the Old Star, to James Dooley’s, the houses in Moors Lane, School Green, Ways Green, BackLane, Mr Court’s works, Owlter Hall, Grove Cottage and Cottage in Welsh Lane.’ Minshull Lane, Stocks Stairs, Church Hill, School Lane and the Hollies were included.
In essence Swanlow was the whole area south of a line drawn from School Green, along Darnhall School Lane, along the ridge behind the church and down to Winsford Bridge.
Not exactly rocket science, but hope it helps!
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Allan, whilst searching an unconnected issue, I came across on the 1851 census in Parish of Church Minshull, a Mary ( aged 20) from Garston who was the wife of John Oakes (an agricultural worker, aged 24). They had a daughter, Sarah Ann, born Church Minshull and lived at Lea Green.
This is precisely the area where Mary Trelfa (who married Ralph Oakes of Swanlow, Winsford in 1758) was born.
Secondly, in the 1881 census in the Civil Parish/ Township of Weaver (St Michael’s and All Angels Parish) there is another John Oakes (agricultural labourer) but also, interestingly, a Thomas Trelfa- a farmer aged 45 who owned 190 acres of land at Weaver Wood and employed two workers (possibly at least one being a John Oakes).
In 1871, this John Oakes lived in Ashbrook in Weaver. ( I think his father is Thomas [1781] and the line goes back to Samuel in 1675; I think the two Johns may be related).
This area of Weaver is adjacent to Weaver Chapel in Swanlow Lane, Winsford and I believe Weaver later became part of Darnhall, Winsford. (So, did the Trelfa’s really live more in Darnhall, Winsford than Middlewich as recorded?).
This appears to throw up lots of interconnectivity between Trelfa’s and Oakes’s and between Oakes’s and Garston.
Do you know of these connections?
John
No...this is all new to me...and very interesting...do we know what Marys maiden name was ?...and thanks for the info....allan
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No, Allan, that's all I've got.
I was hoping you might know, or could find out!
A relative of mine still has Mary Trelfa in our tree, but you suggested an interesting and more in-keeping Wharton alternative, namely that my 3x great grandfather, John's (1784) dad may be the Thomas (1756) born to Samuel/Ellin, rather than Thomas (1761) born to Ralph/Mary Trelfa.
(And John and his family seem to originate from Wharton (Davenham) - which is where Thomas married Mary Cawley in 1783- whereas Mary Trelfa's family came more from Weaver/Swanlow)
John
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OK John...got her ...her maiden name was Brooke
John Oakes to Mary Brooke 22nd april 1850 in Church Minshull,Cheshire...Johns father was Thomas
allan
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Mary Brooks christened 10th October 1830 in Garston
father Richard mother Elizabeth ....Brooke - Brooks ...??...what do you think ?
allan
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Thanks, Allan, it adds flesh not only to my suspicions about the two Johns being related, but how they are related.
I'll say what my thoughts about how, later, when I check a few dates.
(Note, just to add to the confusion, there are at least two other Johns born in Davenham or Over in the period 1820-1827).
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1841 census has Richard /Elizabeth and Mary in Church Minshull
allan
added
Richard Brookes ag lab
Elizabeth
Mary 10
Thomas 9
William 7
Richard 5
Hannah3
Elizabeth 1
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Allan,
This is how I think the two Johns are related:
We start with a John Oakes, a brickmaker of Ways Green, born in 1771 and died around 1850.
He had two brothers, William (2nd June 1776) and Thomas (1781)
John had 3 sons:
Thomas (1797), died 1879 aged 82 Joseph (20th Sept 1795) John (6th Oct 1799)
Thomas (1797) married Ann Brown 20th June 1819 in Over, Cheshire. Ann was born on 13 May 1794 in Davenham, Cheshire, was christened on 29 Jun 1794 in Davenham, Cheshire, and died in 1878 aged 84.
They had several children, the first two being Thomas (1820) died 1884
and JOHN (1827) died about 1860.
This is the John that married Mary Brooke.
The other John was the son of Thomas (1781)
The latter John was uncle to the John who married Mary Brooke.
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Thanks John....so maybe my Daniel Oakes coming to Garston in 1871 wasn`t just about work ?? ...maybe he knew the Brookes family ?......allan :)
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Quite possibly adds to your hypothesis about Oakes's moving to Backford.
Incidently, I also picked up in the 1891 census for West Derby, a James Oakes (aged 39) from Middlewich with wife, Isabella (aged 35) from West Derby, Liverpool. There were 5 children, Emily (18), Margaret (9), James (2), Samuel (1) and Percy (<1), all born West Derby.
Do you know about them?
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Quite possibly adds to your hypothesis about Oakes's moving to Backford.
Incidently, I also picked up in the 1891 census for West Derby, a James Oakes (aged 39) from Middlewich with wife, Isabella (aged 35) from West Derby, Liverpool. There were 5 children, Emily (18), Margaret (9), James (2), Samuel (1) and Percy (<1), all born West Derby.
Do you know about them?
did it give an address John ?
allan
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Yes, it was 211 Leda Street (or something like it).
James was listed as Postman.
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Allan,
regarding Mary Oakes's Will (Cranage 1808), I note:
my 3x great grandfather's (John 1784) parents, Thomas Oakes/ Mary Cawley (married 4th Nov 1783, St Wilfrid's, Davenham) were resident in Davenport (Cheshire Parish Records), which is very close to Cranage!
So, is it Mary Trelfa's Will?
Note, I mention a relative who has been invaluable in above posts, so I would like to credit her, my neighbour, too, you Allan and other forum contributors who have helped to construct my (partial) tree, as I currently understand it.
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Yes John....it`s Mary Trelfa /Oakes will
allan
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And does it connect her with Backford?
And is Thomas who married Mary Cawley her son?
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Dear both
sorry just catching up. Have you located Mary Oakes (trelfa's) will? Any details in to share?
John
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No John ...not yet.
Thomas Oakes married Mary Cawley 4th nov 1783
allan
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Hi Allan, Been a long time, I to have been looking for parts of your Merrick family.
My direct ancestor is John Merrick 1725 his parents as I believe it are John Merrick who married Ann James her father was William James and in his will he refers to John as John jnr he left land to Ann and John at (Bruntless Brecon) not sure of spelling.
My research all points to John 1725 married to Elinor Davis (1) Frances Gladwin (2) and Elizabeth Greenway (3) but I am finding it hard to find concrete evidance to back this up.
regards Steve
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Hiya Steve...are you getting a little mixed up...I have so many Merrick in my tree...I have just checked ..
It was SIMON Merrick who married Ellenor Davies.....not John Merrick...unless you have some info I don`t
I have Simon Merrick b 1728 to Ellenor Davies b c1830..children
Ellenor 1756
Edward 1757-1837 ...my Direct line
Simon 1759
John 1762
William 1768
James 1770
Anne 1772
Thomas 1774
Joseph 1779
I have John Merrick b 1725 the son of John Merrick and Ann Jeffs..he is Simons brother ...so can I ask where you got the name James ??I have Jeffs...I must re check this on Record Pilot...back soon
allan
:)
ADDE...hmmmm ...you have me thinking now...I have
John Merrick to Ann Jeffs 27th Jan 1716 in Llandinabo...I even went there 2 years ago ...Iam now intrigued by ANN JAMES and this will ...???
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Oh....dear oh dear oh dear...I have a massive botch up...I need your help...I have just looked up the christening of Joseph Merrick...the youngest of Simons children and it has
Joseph Merrick 23rd March 1779 ...parents Simon and ELIZABETH.....not Ellenor...so I have botched up ...
Ann Merrick christened 26th July 1772 parents Simon and Elizabeth
James 28th jan 1770 simon and Elizabeth
so...I will have to backtrack now ...and find Elizabeth...sorry mate...you were right and I am wrong....
allan
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AH...I see the problem now...I have Simon married to Elizabeth Stringham ...I thought Elizabeth died and he re-married...obviously I got that wrong....silly custard...allan
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Hi Allan, Just got in from work so I will check my records ,Im on holiday now so will have a good look, If I remember right there were 2 Elinor Davis one spelt with a Davies but let me check before you change anything regards Steve
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Dear Steve (and Allan)
Allan and I have similar Merrick descent and I concur with the information he has. IGI as follows:
Groom's Name: Simon Merrick
Bride's Name: Elianor Davis
Marriage Date: 29 May 1755
Marriage Place: Norton Canon,Hereford,England
Simon 12 years later married, I believe, Elizabeth Stringham on 16/4/57 also in Norton Canon hence youngest 5 children including son Joseph have mother Elizabeth. However I guess we would want to see details of death of Elianor Merrick to be sure that is the case and it is the same Simon Merrick in each case.
However I do have Anne James c.1695 Staunton on Wye and John Merrick c.1686 Staunton as Simon's parents. I have no parents for Anne James though so if you have details which prove parentage that would be really interesting. I have John 1725 as brother of Simon but no other confirmed details for him. Are you still from Hereford area? I live central Hereford and some photos of Merrick graves in Norton Canon churchyard.
best wishes
John Martin
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Hi John, It`s been a long time since I looked at my research so please give me a few days and I will post on here my findings,
Just to go on with
Ann(or Anne)`s father was William James he died 1721 I have the information from his will but would love a copy of it,
He left some land in Brecon to John Merrick jnr and his wife Ann (his daughter)
he also mentions a son John James of Staunton,a daughter Sarah James who married Jacob Mathews, He also mentioned a granddaughter Elizabeth Dannell.
John James was a Blacksmith in his will he mentioned children and grandchildren.
I work nights and have just worked 10 out of 11 nights and stayed up with my grandson today so I will get my notes out over the next few days and let you know where I am. I do have a mass of information which was collected a few years a go by a researcher talk soon Steve
PS great to hear from you be in touch
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Hi Allan and John,
As I Thought there were two different girls who married the two Merrick brothers.
First John Merrick of St Peter married Elianor Davies of Hereford All Saints 30th April 1745 at Hereford Cathedral by licence it says John Merrick staymaker aged 20 years and Elianor Davies spinster aged 21 years.At All Saints there was 14th march 1749/50 buried Elianor wife of John Merrick, John then married Frances Gladwin 5th July 1750 (this is my direct line) in later years after Frances died Elizabeth Greenway both being widows in 1766 at All Saints.
Simon (john`s younger brother) married Eleanor Davis 29th May 1755 in Norton Canon by licence Simon of Letton and Eleanor from Norton Canon,
Eleanor died 9th March 1765,
Simon then marries Elizabeth Stringham in Norton Canon 16th April 1767.
I believe John and Simon`s parents were John Merrick and Ann (Anne) James they married 30th April 1715 in Staunton on Wye by banns.
John born 1725 and Simon born 1728.
John 1725 later moved and set up as a Staymaker in The City of Hereford where he became a freeman.
Simon I believe stayed around Norton Canon a farmer it is this Simon which is your direct line.
I will add more later regards Steve.
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Dear Steve (and Allan)
Allan and I have similar Merrick descent and I concur with the information he has. IGI as follows:
Groom's Name: Simon Merrick
Bride's Name: Elianor Davis
Marriage Date: 29 May 1755
Marriage Place: Norton Canon,Hereford,England
Simon 12 years later married, I believe, Elizabeth Stringham on 16/4/57 also in Norton Canon hence youngest 5 children including son Joseph have mother Elizabeth. However I guess we would want to see details of death of Elianor Merrick to be sure that is the case and it is the same Simon Merrick in each case.
However I do have Anne James c.1695 Staunton on Wye and John Merrick c.1686 Staunton as Simon's parents. I have no parents for Anne James though so if you have details which prove parentage that would be really interesting. I have John 1725 as brother of Simon but no other confirmed details for him. Are you still from Hereford area? I live central Hereford and some photos of Merrick graves in Norton Canon churchyard.
best wishes
John Martin
Thanks John....saves me going back to research....I also have John and Ann as Simons parents...feel better now...I thought I had botched up somewhere....lol................allan
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Hi John and Allan update,
John Merrick who married Ann James I believe (open to be proved wrong) is the son of John Merrick of Monnington on Wye and Letton and Alice Morgan of the same parish, he was bat 1686
(William James had referred to John Merrick Jnr husband to his daughter Ann in his will).
John and Alice had further children
1690c Simon (he married Margery Ferra 1720 Letton) probably a childless marriage
1695 Elizabeth (Staunton on Wye) she married Edward Waters of Almely, blacksmith
1698 Alice (Staunton on Wye)
After Alice John`s first wife died he remarried
Constance Prosser 1702 (Staunton on Wye)
they had the following children
1703 Josiah (Staunton on Wye) buried 1703
1705 Constance (Staunton on Wye) she married John Pinches 1730 Letton.
Some thing I forgot before John Merrick and Ann James also had a daughter 1718 Elizabeth and she married George Davis 1746 Hereford Cathedral
sorry there are so many John`s
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Thanks for the update...been to Pontins, so that`s why my appreciation is a little late.....I had Constance Prosser ...and there is (somewhere) in my notes a burial of a Merrick ,with a Ferra...this always intrigued me, but now I have an inkling why ....maybe Marjery was buried with her mum or dad ....anyway...I will update my tree ...cheers again....allan :)
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Dear both
this is interesting stuff. I can't seem to find much of this info on IGI - do you have citations Steve ? I have found the Margey Ferra marriage on IGI though. That is interesting.
I have some Ferrars related to the Merricks. Perhaps they interconnect more than once. Mine start with Sarah Ferrar 1789 – 1825 (father Samuel I think) who married John Merrick , Harriet Ferrar Merrick 1822 – 1887and John Edward Ferrar Merrick 1825-1884
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Hi John, Many years ago I had two lots of research done on our family. Firstly Mrs Tonkin helped me a lot to get back to the Merricks in Hereford City, There has always been a lot of different Merricks and it was very complicated at first and a lot of research was done on the Merricks of Ledbury saddlers which go back to your family of farmers in Weobley, Norton Canon and nearby parishes. It was thought at first that this was my line but further research proved that my family were freeman Staymakers in the city.Secondly my father commissioned somemore research through Eleanor Harris, She was able to go into my family in greater depth not only proving without doubt what Mrs Tonkin had found but finding some fantastic papers and adverts in newspapers on my family.My problem has always been in proving John Merrick 1725 and John Merrick who married Frances Gladwin were the same person, everything points to it but I have to be sure. I have as I said got alot of information (too much to put on here) about your side of the Merricks Simon who married Elinor and Elizabeth, Perhaps later we might be able to meet and exchange notes.
regards Steve
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Without proof but I do believe in time it will come to light I believe our familys in someway or another are linked to Simon Merrick of Burghill he became the vicar of Burghill 1635. his son John Merrick entered upon his Haberdasher and Feltmaking apprenticeship 1648 to Christopher Dewe of Hereford haberdasher
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As you have probably been told before the IGI is not complete and not without mistakes my researches used origanal parish records wills old newspapers and other papers held at the Hereford Record Office , Hereford libuary and Hereford Cathedral Records
regards Steve
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Something to get your teeth into,
John Merrick of Huntesley in Letton, Yeoman.
will dated 1751 proved 1755 by Ann his widow
legatees wife Ann Merrick
son John Merrick
son Simon Merrick "to educate and maintain granddaughter Anne Davies
son in law George Davies
executors wife Ann and son Simon
testator John Merrick
interesting witness Anne Jennings