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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Salty on Friday 19 March 04 15:54 GMT (UK)
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My Deal, Kent surnames are as follows.
PITTOCK, HARVEY, NORRIS, O'NEILL, IRELAND.
I have a lot of Pittock info but very little on the other names.
Tom
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Hi Salty
Trawling through the older messages on the boards I moderate, I came across your message of March 2004 that did not solicit any replies.
I did notice since that date that you have posted 14 messages, and without going back and reading them all - does this mean you are making headway with your research.
As the boards now have considearbly more members that when you posted that first message - would you like to re-submit any look up quieries including any new information..
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for your message but I have not made any headway with my Kent names from either of my two messages on this board, or my requests on the census boards. My Kent lot seem to have just dissappeared. Obviously made sure they were not at home on census nights or some such.
If you want to delete my two messages on this board feel free to do so and I will try again at a later date.
Tom
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Hi there
Members using Ancestry's online version of the 1901 census (which includes Kent) might like to note that Deal appears to have been accidentally omitted.
Grey Squirrel
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Hi,
Ref Deal 1901 census, my understanding was that the papers were all lost when they moved buildings in the 1970's. So there is no chance of finding anyone.
Tom
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Is that right about Deal? I never knew that; what a shame!
Does anyone know if there is published information anywhere (net or book) about such lost census returns -- for instance, I believe that the Whitstable area census for 1841 is lost too.
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I am interested in your Norris surname - I have a Grove Norris - any connection?
Bridget
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This is taken from the Nationalarchives website regarding Deal 1901 Census
6.3 Stephen Taylor asked if it would be possible to identify missing pages in the 1901 census database and whether a list would be available for users to consult. Alison Webster said that this would not be possible as it was often not easy to determine if a page was missing. She added that we were aware that parts of Deal, Kent were missing because they were never transferred to the PRO
Looks like there is an issue with Deal, but to what extent they do not seem able/prepared to state.
Adrian
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I am interested in your Norris surname - I have a Grove Norris - any connection?
Bridget
Hi Bridget,
I am sorry, I have very lettle info on Norris, an Ann Norris married Pittock about 1820 ish in Deal, Kent.
Have made a lot of headway with the Pittock name recently with the help of a lady living in Deal, I have found a distant cousin who has a great deal of info.
If I do find out any more on Norris I will post it.
Tom
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Sorry I can't help with your surname interests, My interest is where did you get the Marine Bandsman from?? I would love one
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
A very kind soul made it up for me.
I have a penchant for listening to CDs of the Royals and thought it suited me very well, as I have quite a collection. There is only one Military Band.
I cannot even remember who it was now, so long ago.
If you are any good with graphics send me a Personal Mess with your email addy and I can send this one to you. Then you can edit out the name Tom from it if you know how.
Salty
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Hi
I noticed one of your surname interests was 'Pittock'. I have a James Pittock Axon in my tree, born 1837 in Walmer, Deal. I havent yet been able to work out where this name has come from. Im quite certain it is not from his father's side of the family, but it could be connected to his mother - Sarah Meers. Is this one you have come across?
KPM
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Hi all
Thought I would post my Deal and Walmer name interests in case anyone else is researching the same?
Dadd family mostly Deal
Smith family mostly Walmer boatmen/fishermen
cheers
Jenny
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If anyone needs lookups on Deal I am there every week and happy to help. The library has transcriptions of most of the local registers, the 1851 & 1881 census and several other useful resources, as well as the usual film/fiche material and local directories.
Regards, Bill
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Hi Bill, good of you to offer help with the Deal/Walmer research.
I am trying to find a connection to my Dadd family to a man called Lardy Dadd, I should think that was his nickname? Its difficult to find links with later families because the 1901 Deal area census has been lost, so lots of avenues of research are now closed until the next census!!.
Someone once told me that Lardy had a brother George Dadd, I have a picture in one of my Deal books in which the brothers are standing next to the lifeboat (Walmer I think) with Freddy Upton.
Would you know who the Father of these two Dadd family members was please? I should think they would be a little younger that Freddy but not much.
regards
Jenny
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Hi Jenny
From memory I think the picture you mention is of the North Deal lifeboat - will have to check to be certain. I am familiar with the DADD surname from previous research in Deal; will see what I can find for you next time I'm in Deal (later this week).
Regards, Bill
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cheers Bill
Appreciate anything you can find, I live in Northamptonshire and hours away from any research. I am a member of Kent Family History where I think I have seen your name lots of times.
regards
Jenny
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I am also looking into my Deal ancestors. So far I have Pitcher, Twyman, Bailey/Bayly/Bayley. The Baileys were mariners but I haven't got the foggiest where to start with that.
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Sorry Jenny - haven't been to library yet, but haven't forgotten you.
Karen - George Reynolds Bayley was a notable Channel pilot, master of the lugger Albion. He was lost at sea in 1870. There is a photo of him in the book "Seamen of the Downs", by George Bethel Bayley, published by Blackwood in 1929.
"Doc" Bailey was the owner of the "Lady Irene", which can still be seen on Deal Beach - see my website (http://www.eastkent.freeuk.com/deal/beach.htm) for pictures.
KPM - Henry Axon of Walmer is described by Bayley as "one of the last Channel cruisers"; there is a photo of him in the same book. Will Axon was at one time acting 2nd coxswain of the Walmer lifeboat.
I am currently working on a page on Deal Boatmen, which should be online soon.
Twyman is still a fairly common name in the Deal area.
Regards, Bill
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Hi Bill
Thank you for the info.
Henry Axon is the brother of my grx2 grandfather. Someone kindly forwarded me a copy of his photo from the Seamen of the Downs. I believe Henry was also aboard the lugger Albion when it down, but fortunately survived.
I would be really interested in your page on the Deal boatmen. I believe that Henry's son - John Gard Axon (known as Slam?) was also on the Walmer lifeboat but as yet I haven't been able to find out too much, so if you come across any other Axon's involved I would be really grateful if you would let me know.
I'm not sure if it would be of any interest to you and your page on Deal boatmen but the Axon's also owned the Lugger Walmer Castle (previous the Petrel) which sunk quite tragically in Horseshoe bay in Ventnor IOW. I have a fair bit of info on this and if you are interested I will happily forward details to you.
KPM (Anne-Marie)
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Oh, Dear - my failing memory let me down again! :-[
Freddy Upton and the Dadd brothers were on the Walmer lifeboat! I just found the picture in June Broady's book.
Regards, Bill
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Thanks for that Bill. I am trying to locate quite a few Deal ancestors, unfortunately a fair few brick walls are appearing. Especially with Bailey being spelt so differently through the years.
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Thats OK Bill none of us are infallable
Thought it was the Walmer boat. Its a good book by Jean Brody isn't it?
Still would like to know if poss if they were brothers and who was their father, and even more, I would love to know why Lardy?? surely not his christian name.
Regards
Jenny
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OK Jenny - will see what I can find out after Christmas. Have a good one. :)
Regards, Bill
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Hi Bill i am looking for any information on the Harris family partically my great grandfather who name was Patrick and his wife Julia, they lived in Middle st Deal.
Also any info on my Mothers Family name Carpenter, I believe they may have lived in Union rd at one point but think may be from Sandwich area.
Love your website with all the old pics of Deal they bring back many memories. Colin. :)
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Hi Colin
Can you let me have some more information - approximate dates, etc. - to give me an idea where to start looking?
Regards, Bill
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Hi Bill
Sorry for not replying straight away i have been busy.
I think my great grandfather was Patrick john Harris born about 1865 In Canterbury and my Grandfathers name was Patrick George Harris born about 1885 born in Deal.
I did have a lot of information that i found from another person on another website but have lost both contacts name and website.
Hope this helps. Colin
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Hi Jenny,
My partner, Julie is the granddaughter of Lardy Dadd (yes, Lardy was his nickname, which Julie believes was because of his white hair). She is unsure of many of her grandfathers details, including his first name (he died when she was only 5), but she will try to check these with her father who still lives in Deal. She will also try to find out about George Dadd and her great-grandfather. If there is anything else that you want to know, please make a post, and I will reply as soon as possible.
David
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Hi Dave
Thanks for your mail
I would love to hear anything about the family names dates etc.
I think there were two families of Dadd in Deal/Walmer But here's hoping its the same one.
Will be waiting
Jenny
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G'Day Tom, I have a Harriet Pittock in my tree who married a William Pattison 27 Apr 1831 in Hougham, Kent, UK. Any connection ??. The Pittock name in various spellings was then given to some of her children as a christian name.
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Dave
still awaiting any details re Lardy Dadd and family - any news??
Jenny
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Salty: In your Pittock connections have you a Harriet PITTOCK born abt 1805 says Dover but no baptism found there married William PATTISON in Houham 27 April 1831. 3 of their children all baptised in Dover St. Mary's had the middle name PITTOCK. Is there any connection to your PITTOCK line? The last child born to this family had a given name of Stow. So far I have not been able to find where Harriet came from.
All the best
Rick BC Canada
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Hi Rick
You say you have not found a baptism in Dover - where have you looked?
Also, Hougham could mean St Lawrence, Church Hougham; or Christ Church, Hougham-in-Dover.
Regards, Bill
PS - I haven't forgotten the other lookups on this thread; I will follow them up later in the week.
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Bill: RE: Harriet PITTOCK.
I have looked at the registers on LDS films for Dover St. Mary, Dover St. James and St. Lawrence, Hougham. So far I have not found anything as yet. That is why I asked Salty if he run across her in Deal. I am waiting for the film to come in for Deal to search for Jane Soles and her family. She married John PATTISON in Dover. I viewed the parish registers and not the indexes.
Thanks
Rick BC Canada
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Hi Rick
There are several other parishes in Dover area, not all available on LDS film:
St Bartholomew, Charlton, Buckland, Baptist, River, Alkham.
I can have a look for you if you like.
Regards, Bill
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If anyone is searching Kent birth records, please can you keep an eye open for Richard Cullen, born c. 1798 in Deal according to the 1851 and 1861 census. He went on to be a coachman in London. That is all that I know of him. His children were Richard, William, George, Henry, Maria and Rebecca, all born in London. Their mother was Harriett.
Many thanks, epc
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I would love to know why Lardy?? surely not his christian name
I haven't been able to find out why "Lardy" - from photographs he doesn't look to have been fat - but his christian name was John.
Regards, Bill
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Hi Bill
Thanks for the info on Lardy being John! Its a start anyway, I was hoping for a lot more info from a chap who posted several months ago but sadly he hasn't come back to me at all.
At least I have a George and John Dadd now I can try to find their baptisms to find the parents.
REgards
Jenny
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Hi Jenny
The DADDs of Walmer seem to have disappeared from St Mary's in the early 1800s, so I will check Deal for you next time I'm in the library. Do you have an approximate date?
Regards, Bill
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I don't have any dates to help really, just by looking at the pictures in the book? can we date their approx ages from this?
John looks younger than George to me what are your thoughts.
I am grateful for any help you can give
regards
Jenny
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Hi Colin
I think my great grandfather was Patrick john Harris born about 1865 In Canterbury and my Grandfathers name was Patrick George Harris born about 1885 born in Deal.
Patrick George Harris was baptised at St Andrew's, Deal, on 3 August 1895, the son of William Edward and Clara Elizabeth Harris of 3 Peter Street, labourer.
He had a number of siblings baptised at St Andrew's between 1891 and 1901.
I have not been able to find the marriage of his parents in Deal/Walmer.
Regards, Bill
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I have a Patrick John Harris born in Canterbury that married my Julia Elizabeth Pitcher. His son was Patrick George Harris, born in Deal - wife Lucy Louisa Love.
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My Deal, Kent surnames are as follows.
PITTOCK, HARVEY, NORRIS, O'NEILL, IRELAND.
I have a lot of Pittock info but very little on the other names.
Tom
Hello Salty, recently joined Rootschat and have Parish records of Deal and Walmer. Pittocks were a middle sized family, as were Harvey, Norris' were a very large family and O'neill and Ireland not ver y big at all. If you could give me any info to pinpoint the century and a lead back from the info you have it would help.
Regards
AJ
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If anyone is searching Kent birth records, please can you keep an eye open for Richard Cullen, born c. 1798 in Deal according to the 1851 and 1861 census. He went on to be a coachman in London. That is all that I know of him. His children were Richard, William, George, Henry, Maria and Rebecca, all born in London. Their mother was Harriett.
Many thanks, epc
Hello epc
Just joined Rootschat and seen your request. Richard Cullen would have been baptised in one of 2 churches. The one I have records for shows a Richard Cullen and 5 siblings baptised there. Richard was baptised 1n 1803. Their parents were aArthur & Mary Cullen. Don't pay too much attention to the fact that he thought he was born in 1798 - I have come up against this before - people then didn't really keep count of how old they were so brth dates were only aproximate.
Regards
AJ
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Hello AJ
Thank you very much for your interest. I will send you a PM on behalf of my second cousin's wife.
RBC
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Hello, SAlty
Been trawling through records re the surnames you're looking for and have listed a few.
IRELAND. Not a large family at all. I have the children of George & Elsie IRELAND: Dorothty born 1923 and Nancy born 1927.
O,NEIL (various spellings)
Peter O'NEIL married Ann JURRITE in 1830
HARVEY (much bigger family)
Jesse & Frances had Arthur 1883, Charles 1878, Emily 1871, Ethel 1888, Frederick 1876, Herbert 1874, William 1870.
Other parents around the same period were Henry & Elizabeth, Alexander & Mary and John & Frances.
NORRIS is a huge family and I won't attempt to list anything without knowing where to start.
If the above are any help to you I can expand on details
Regards
Alastair
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Was trawling through Kent when I spotted the name Lardy Dadd. My mother often talked about him and I believe I actually met him many manyy years ago. My g'father Joseph T Sponder (born 1872 Walmer)was on the Walmer lifeboat the John Dibdon (think the first name is correct) so may have been some connection. Will email my aunt who is 93 to see if she can shed some light on Lardy Dadd and family. My surname interests are Sponder.
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Regarding Lardy Dadd.I spent my first 25years closely associated with Lardy and his brother Fred. He used to live at 58 York Road and I lived at 52A York Road. I have a few photos and many memories that I can share with you.
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The Walmer lifeboat men lived close to the lifeboat area.My mother told me that Lardy Dadd got his nickname because as a young boy he had blonde hair and a rather fatty face that resembled a block of lard.His brother Fred lived with his mother in the small detached cottage just opposite 62 York Road. When she passed away Fred went and lived with Lardy and his wife Nell at 58 York Road.The old lifeboat coxain Joe Mercer lived in the old boatmans rooms at 1 Wollaston Road and their daughter lived in 36 York Road. Slam Axon lived at 8 York Road and Tom Heard at 67 York Road. I have a few very nice photos of Joe Mercer in my collection.
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Not sure where my last post went to, but my aunt who is 93 said she remembers Lardy (John) Dadd. He was about the same age as her brother Reg whose nickname was 'doctor' She doesnt know why. Lardy caught some sharks and humg them on the quay as they were not seen in that area. Lardy went to Canada Rd school. My g'parents lived at 13 York Rd - Joseph & Isabella Sponder. Kathy Hall lived a couple of doors away she was my mothers friend.
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The Walmer lifeboat men lived close to the lifeboat area.My mother told me that Lardy Dadd got his nickname because as a young boy he had blonde hair and a rather fatty face that resembled a block of lard.His brother Fred lived with his mother in the small detached cottage just opposite 62 York Road. When she passed away Fred went and lived with Lardy and his wife Nell at 58 York Road.The old lifeboat coxain Joe Mercer lived in the old boatmans rooms at 1 Wollaston Road and their daughter lived in 36 York Road. Slam Axon lived at 8 York Road and Tom Heard at 67 York Road. I have a few very nice photos of Joe Mercer in my collection.
Hi there.....
I'm researching my relatives and Joe Mercer was my Great Great Great Uncle - if you dont mind I'd love to see some photos of him as my daughter is really keen to find out more - FYI my Nan was Doris Mercer born in Gillingham and her mum was born in Deal/Walmer.
Thanks
Spencer Parker
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Hi Spencer,
I'll get my albums out and sort through them for you.
Keith
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Hi Keith,
This is great many thanks for your help in advance.
Spencer
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Hi Spencer,
I have found the photos but can't seem to be able to load them on this site.
Can you send me your email address and I will send them by email.
Keith
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Hi Bill
Thank you for the info.
Henry Axon is the brother of my grx2 grandfather. Someone kindly forwarded me a copy of his photo from the Seamen of the Downs. I believe Henry was also aboard the lugger Albion when it down, but fortunately survived.
I would be really interested in your page on the Deal boatmen. I believe that Henry's son - John Gard Axon (known as Slam?) was also on the Walmer lifeboat but as yet I haven't been able to find out too much, so if you come across any other Axon's involved I would be really grateful if you would let me know.
I'm not sure if it would be of any interest to you and your page on Deal boatmen but the Axon's also owned the Lugger Walmer Castle (previous the Petrel) which sunk quite tragically in Horseshoe bay in Ventnor IOW. I have a fair bit of info on this and if you are interested I will happily forward details to you.
KPM (Anne-Marie)
Hi Anne-Marie. Apologies, I unsure how to message you directly. Henry Axon is my 3x great grandfather (I am related via his daughter Elizabeth Axon who married William Macey). I am really interested in the Axon side of the family as I have not managed to contact any relatives from this side. I would very much appreciate any photos or information you are happy to share!
Graham
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Hello Graham
I have rejoined Rootschat with difficulty after a long absence and am able to provide information about the Axon family but am sending this in advance to make sure it works.
Regards
Alastair
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Yes, it did. I came across your post when I rejoined and notice that you are descended from Henry Axon. From the booklet 'The Axon Family of Deal and Walmer' which lists all Axons and their dates, John Guard Axon was one of ten children of Henry David Axon, (24) Mariner of Walmer and Jane Sellaway (23) of Lewisham, d/o William Sellaway, Cooper. They married at St Mary's Church, Upper Walmer 6 March 1872.
Henry was one of twelve children of William and Elizabeth Axon.
You're quite right about the boating tragedy. The lugger Petrel was owned by Alfred George Axon who set sail inMarch 1878 and was never seen again. The empty vessel was found drifting and half full of water off Brixham with no sign of the crew. The Petrel was brought back to Walmer, refitted and renamed Walmer Castle.
On 15 March 1892 the Walmer Castle sank in Horseshoe Bay, IOW with all hands including Henry David Axon, skipper and owner and his brother David Charles Axon (not your Henry, they were the children of William and Elizabeth). All the crew werepilots looking for ships needing a pilot off the Isle of Wight. Other crew members were James Hoile, William Gilchrist,James armold and William Cushney. All are buried in Shanklin cemetery.
I hope this is of some help to you
Kind regards
Alastair