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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: ozdroggy1 on Thursday 23 August 07 09:24 BST (UK)
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Fundamentally my William CALDER is from Kirkintilloch and he undoubtedly had 4 children by Elizabeth BENNY as I have purchesed the images from Scotlands People. The children are:
"August 15th William Calder, Elizabeth Benny - George in Bents."[1762]
"April 3rd William Calder, Elizabeth Benny - William in Bent."[1764]
Agnes CALDER was christened April 26, 1767 at Kirkintilloch, Dunbarton, SCT. (no image d/l for this one).
"Thomas Son lawful to Wm Calder in Shirva & Eliz Benny his spouse baptz 13th May" [1770]
Although the IGI has an EXTRACTED marriage for William and Elizabeth. [Batch M116514] the ScotlandsPeople search only shows William with no indication of Elizabeth. The portion of the related image is attached. There is no mention on the 2 pages before and after.
This marriage is between two minors aged 19 and 17. Possibly this gives rise to the special nature of the entry in the OPR.
The OPR entry relates to monies collected and states under a heading of 1751 - August:
"4th.....William Calder.....1..10
Ditto proclamd m 2 Days...1..4"
I assume that this has something to do with a marriage - can anyone provide clarification please.
Mike.
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Hi Mike,
I'm not 100% sure, but I think this would relate to the Calling of the Banns prior to the couple's marriage. The Banns had to be called 3 times in both the bride and the groom's Parishes, unless of course, they were both from the same Parish in the first place.
Also, at 17 and 19, neither of them are minors - the legal age for marriage was 16, in fact I think it might even have been younger back then.
I'm sure it won't be long until someone more knowledgeable than me corrects us both!!
I'm sure you already know but if a child is the 'natural' child of so and so, this means they were illegitimate and when referred to as 'lawful', then the parents were married.
Anne
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Thanks Anne. I don't know why I got hung up on 21 for consent. Ah! Yes - the banns. One problem is that I have failed to find any mention of Elizabeth Benny or banns for her in any other surrounding counties let alone parishes. Looks like it will just have to remain one more of those unsubstiantiated "facts". :(
Mike.
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Hi Mike,
Have you tried looking under different spellings of Bennie?
If you were to search (on SP) by entering B*nn* for example, this would bring up Bennie, Benny, Benney, Binnie, Binny or Binney. I've learnt over the years to try as many different variants as I can think of when I can't find someone. This obviously doesn't guarantee that you'll find her, just one avenue to pursue.
Anne
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Thanks for that tip. I assume that "soundex" would do the same?
I have already done:
You searched for: Surname: "BENNY"; Use Soundex: On; Forename: ""; Sex: "Both"; Date From: 01 January 1650; Date To: 31 December 1853; County: LANARK; Parish: "NEW MONKLAND|OLD MONKLAND";
and got a mixture of 49.
and for all counties:
You searched for: Surname: "BENNY"; Use Soundex: On; Forename: "E*"; Sex: "Female"; Date From: 01 January 1759; Date To: 31 December 1763;
and got a mixture of 7 for those 5 critical [likely] years.
I think I am clutching at straws :-\
Mike
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I'm not sure whether 'soundex' does the same or not. I usually end up trying so many different variations that I can't remember what half of them were!
I could only find the births of 2 children which you already have, on the British Vital Records ( a CD version of IGI), George born 15th August 1762 and William born 3rd April 1764, both in New Monkland.
I had a we look for an Elizabeth Benny(ie) born around 20 years before the birth of George and the search came up with 4: (1742 +/- 5 years)
Elizabath Bennie, (no date of birth given), christened 15th October 1744
Parents Alexander Bennie and Margret Stewart
Recorded in Cadder, Lanarkshire
Elizabeth Binnie (no date of birth given), christened 22nd April 1744
Parents William Binnie and Agnes Braid
Recorded in Muiravonside, Stirlingshire
Elisabeth Binny (no date of birth given), christened 18th October 1744
Parents William Binny and Margret Wilson
Recorded in Carstairs, Lanarkshire
Elizabeth Binny born 16th October 1744, christened 26th October 1744
Parents William Binny and Marion Wilson
Recorded in Carnwath, Lanarkshire
Of course none of the above could be 'your' Elizabeth.
The one born in Cadder (Bishopbriggs), geographically is closer to Kirkintilloch than the others but that obviously proves nothing as their first two children were born in New Monkland!
Have you got futher information on their children? Who they married, where they went etc? You might have to do some sidways searching!!
Anne
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I'm not sure whether 'soundex' does the same or not. I usually end up trying so many different variations that I can't remember what half of them were!
Well it DID NOT find the Cadder birth.
They all look much of a muchness but I tend towards the Carstairs one as it is the closest to the town of Bent where the first two children were born. But why William would have been 30 km south from Shirva where he was born and where the next two children were born is anybody's guess. Unfortunately the children's names give no indication - only have a George, William, Agnes and Thomas so far. The Agnes pointed me to Muiravonside originally but I have decided to change that.
Thanks .... Mike.
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apanderson said:
Have you got futher information on their children? Who they married, where they went etc? You might have to do some sidways searching!!
I have done a bit more digging and have discovered that the last two on your list were the same person. I have now settled on Carstairs with the following note in my database.
"The birthplace of Elizabeth Benny has been hard to find however I have chosen Carstairs as it is within 15 Km of Bents where her first two children were born. She was baptised in both Carstairs and the nearby parish of Carnwath where it is probable that her mother-in-law Margaret Somerville was also born."
Thanks Anne.
Mike.