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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: ozdroggy1 on Friday 17 August 07 14:28 BST (UK)
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I am descended from Thomas CALDER b. 13 May 1770 and Agnes PATRICK b. 29 Nov 1772 and probably also related to Thomas CALDER and Agnes REID of about 1730s. There is also a connection to SHIRVA (or SHIRVAY) a farm close by Twechar about 2 1/2 miles east of Kirkintilloch on the Clyde & Forth Canal. The farm still exists today. Is anyone else involved in this line?
Mike.
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Possibly, I need to do a bit more work on this line, but I have a George Calder, who MAY be the son of Thomas Calder and Agnes Patrick.
George had a daughter Margaret abt 1826, and was placed in Mollinsburn in the 1861 census. She married (2nd)in Cadder in 1852 to a William Walker. 1st marriage to a John Horn(e).
Will get back to you as soon as poss.
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Hi Mike , I can't find anything definate yet.
I think that's why I gave this line a rest ::)
So far- Margaret Calder m. William Walker in 1852. in Cadder, both of Parish.
Her death cert states her parents are George Calder and Mary McPherson. (cannot find this marriage or any births to this couple, so am beginning to suspect a mistake somewhere on the death cert. unless they were non-conformists)
Margaret Calder/Walkers death cert in 1887 and a Walker childs birth cert in 1855 states she was previously married to John Horn*, her maiden name Calder.
Cannot find the Horn marriage.
The 1841 census for George Calder has his wife as Ellen, though a daughter Margaret appears to be the right age for mine. Margaret is not there in 1851, and can't find her yet under Horn.
Have tried both Cadder Lanarkshire, and Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire for censuses , and the whole of Scotland for marriages.
A George Calder has children to an Elizabeth( Ellen?) Burns, but the first one I see is if I remember rightly abt. 1830, so it could be possible George was married before.
Anyone any suggestions?
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I am descended from Thomas CALDER b. 13 May 1770 and Agnes PATRICK b. 29 Nov 1772
======SNIP
Mike.
As I dig further it would now appear more likely that the Agnes PATRICK in question was actually born 25 Nov 1766 to John PATRICK and Agnes LECK. ::)
Mike
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:-[ Sorry about the spelling of KIRKINTILLOCH.
I do have a George born 8 June 1800.
Source:
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. International Genealogical Index v5.0. (© 1999-2002 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.) http://www.familysearch.org. #1041997 Batch C114986.
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Yep, I believe he's my George also.
Tonight I found the marriage record of a Daniel Calder who has the same parents as my Margaret. i.e. George Calder and Mary McPherson (McFerson).
This fits with the the 1841 census enty in Kirkintilloch I found earlier. This is the only Daniel in the 1841 census in Dunbartonshire or Lanarkshire. of the approx age group. (Daniel has chopped abt 3 yrs off his age in the 1860 marriage cert. but his new wife was a bit younger).
Therefore, I think the Ellen/Helen in the 41 and 51 census was either Mary Ellen or a second wife.
John Stark was a witness at Daniels wedding.
I also found the death cert of Eliz Burns, who was also married to a George Calder, and who I thought earlier might have been the ''Ellen'' or second wife of my George. But no! Eliz died 1855 and the children listed on her death cert do not match the 1841 census family of George , Ellen , Margaret , Daniel etc.
More details, addresses etc, processes of elimation and so on can be given if needed.
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I have sent you a private message with the CALDER/PATRICK family. I have not traced the George line. Do you have a death yet? I couldn't find one in Kirkintilloch.
Mike.
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Thank you for the P.M. I'll reply to it tonight, as I really should go to work today ::)
re- George death. As George was still alive in the 51 census I was hoping he'd still be alive at the start of civil reg. in 1855. but I don't see a suitable death in Kirkintilloch either. However I did see one in Stirling, will access it later and let you know.
There are definately Paisley (Renfrewshire) connections to this family. Ellen, wife of George was born Paisley according to the 51 census. It's also where my Margaret ended up. It's not geographically far, and it was the weaving hub of the west of Scotland at that time.
So , on that note . I'll leave you to look at the Renfrewshire/Paisley Calders of the period. May be a red herring, but worth a look.
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Nae Luck, George in Stirling was Seaman!
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Would someone with more experience than I like to take a guess at all after son to Thomas Calder....
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I think I may be onto a major breakthrough in joining two Calder lines. It is possible that this marriage is between first cousins and it appears that there were no children. William who died 11 November 1826 made a Testament on 22 April 1822 in which he left everything to his wife Agnes as "sole executor and universal legator".
Can anyone explain how this extract can be seen to confirm that the date of the marriage between William and Agnes is 1783 as stated. ???
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modified
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My connection to George Calder is his son Daniel Calder, b1835 who married Isabella Brown. The 1861 census shows Daniel as a mason. Isabella's father John was a limestone miner as were his sons. Their daughter Isabella Main Calder b1864 married James Henderson b1856 a weaver in Cadder.
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Hi, I think we have a connection here through Daniels marriage cert, and Margarets death cert, both naming parents as George Calder and Mary McFerson(sp).
I haven't looked much at this line since last year, so I am sadly no further forwards (or perhaps backwards ;D )
However I did notice that on Daniels marriage cert, there were amendments where the words 'Maiden name' were scored out. Perhaps they weren't married.
BUT as the next entry also has this, I'm wondering if it was a misunderstanding of procedure on part of Registrar.
I'll maybe take a fresh look at this line today if I have time.
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I have just found a reference to a "Daniel Calder, painter from Edinburgh July 8th 1821" this reference was discovered in "Beatrix Potters Journals" published in 1986.
It was reported as found inscribed on the window frame of a house in Coldstream on Monday October 8th 1894. Possibly of no significance to anyone but thought I would share it any way.
I can thoroughly recommend the book though, an excellent read, most amusing in places and good insight into country life in rural England and Scotland between 1881 and 1896.
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Hi, New to this website. I to have a connection to Calder's in Kirkintilloch also Bain's in this same area. Trying to find parents for Joseph Bain Calder born 5 Mar 1852. His grandparents were Alexander & Jean Johnson BAIN - found their family in 1841 census - Children being Margaret Bain poss married Peter AITKEN , Jean BAIN, Agnes BAIN, John Bain, Alexander Bain jnr.
So, I am looking for the connection with Jean or Agnes marrying CALDER.
Joseph Bain CALDER was a tailor, taught the trade by his uncle John BAIN. His grandfather was also a Tailor. Joseph joined the navy in 1867, but by 1878 he was in New Zealand and married.
Does anyone have a connection to this family?
Alexander BAIN signed as his guardian for his entry to the navy. Did this mean his parents were deceased?
Does anyone have access to kirkintilloch cemetery records please?
Any suggestions please?
regards
Shosco
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Hello
If you are still there you may have found that Joseph Calder married Agnes Bayne 22 Oct 1852 .
Agnes was the daughter of Alexander Bain and Jean Johnstone born 1831 (1841 census) absent from 1851 census.(NB I am a Kirkintilloch Calder descendant, not your line, and I know the Johnstones lived in Kirkintilloch and often married the Calders and Starks)
The 1861 census has Alexander Calder age 7(1854) and John Calder age 5(1856) as grandsons of Alexander Bain(tailor) and Jean. Both boys were born in Kirkintilloch.
Alexander Calder in the Web: UK, Royal Naval Reserve Service Records Index, 1860-1955: Birth given as Glasgow, Lanarkshire but by then Kirkintilloch was considered part of Glasgow.
Joseph is in the 1861 Census staying with his uncle John Bain in Dalmellington Ayrshire, Age 10 born Kirkintillock(misspelt).
I have seen posts that say he joined the RN(don't know which part) aged 12.
Joseph Calder in the 1871 England Census at Spithead Hampshire aboard the vessel 'Inconstant" age 19 born Scotland.
Posts say he arrived in NZ about 1874.
Joseph Bain Calder Death Date:16 Oct 1926 Residence:Clinton, New Zealand
Hope this is of use,
HeatherCLS
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Hi Heather, Thank you for your information. Have found finally had a break through for this family.
Once again thanks for taking the time to post.
Shosco
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Wondering if anyone here may have come across my great, great grandfather. Having difficulty in finding anything other than a mention in my great grandfathers 1871 census entry.
My great grandfather seemingly ran away, as a child, from the Kirkintilloch area, getting onboard a Moray based fishing boat going through the Forth and Clyde Canal. He lived out his days as a fisherman in Moray. It is believed his father came looking for him but he would not return, seeing he was being cared for he left him where he resided.
Gt Gt Grandfather John Calder, his wife was called Margaret nee Foot, he is recorded as a weaver and it is possible that he may have also been a soldier at some point.
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What was the name of your errant great-grandfather, when and where was he born, and where was he in the 1871 census?
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Hi Forfarian,
He is also called John Calder.
In the 1871 census he is 27 years old, resides in Findochty in the parish of Rathven , Banffshire.
His birthplace is given as Linlithgowshire, Kirkintilloch
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Kirkintilloch isn't in Linlithgowshire. You really need to look at the original to see whether the error is there or in a transcription.
I don't see any mention of his father in the 1871 census transcription I am looking at. (I wouldn't expect a census to have information about anyone not actually in the household.)
I see that he married Magdalen Thain in 1866. Have you seen that marriage certificate? It should confirm the names of his parents and also tell you whether or not John senior was still living.
Though it does seem that both he and his father are elusive before then.
There is a reference to him in LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp which suggests that his father was a soldier.
Can you be certain that John Calder senior and Margaret Foot were actually married? There is a seven-year-old John Foot in the household of William Telfer in Kirkintilloch in 1851 and a 17-year-old John Foot, boarder, in the household of John Quin in Kirkintilloch in 1861, but no John Foot of matching age in any later census.
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Yes, I have the marriage certificate, John Calder is down as father, occupation soldier, Margaret Calder is recorded as deceased. I'm unsure whether her original surname (Foot or Foote) is correct, it was also believed she may have been Irish, I was only verbally told that. It is believed that she was dead before he ran away as the reason for him leaving was his step mother not being particularly nice to him. Again just a family story.
It is reasonable to consider they were never married, there is no evidence they were.