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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jillie42 on Sunday 12 August 07 10:26 BST (UK)
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On my Gt Grandmother Mary's birth certificate in 1863 her parents Hannah and John Williams are listed as living at St Catherine's road. Kensington.
I can't find a record of this place anywhere and it doesn't seem to be listed on the 1861 census.
I really need to know where this is and what church was likely to be the the main one serving it,
thanks in advance for any help
Jillie
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Hi Jillie,
Do you know when John & Hannah married, might they have been living there in the 1861 census?
Barbara
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I have found a St Ketherines Road in Notting hIll in 1888.
If you go to Streetmap or multimap and search for Royal crescent, go North up Addison Avenue. You will see a cross for St James Church. St Katherines Road was just above that, about where Wilsham Street is. The Church would have been St James
This is the only one I can find in my old A-Z of Victorian London. Someone may know better
Sylviaann
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Victorian London Street Index has a St Catherines Mews in Chelsea SW3 ...
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They were both living in St Martin's Lane (no house number) when they married in 1863. They married at St Martin's in the Fields parish church. Neither of them seem to be living there on the 1861 census.
Hannah Williams (Fuller) came from Prittlewell in Essex and I have absolutely No idea how old John Williams was or where he came from as their marriage certificate simply says "Of Full Age", that he was a labourer and that his father was a carpenter called James. I know he was dead by the 1871 census and that his wife and children were living at Westminster buildings, St John the Evangelist, Westminster. I know his wife Hannah was born in 1832 so alothough she doesn't state her age she would have been about 31 when she married
On later census returns Mary does say she came from Notting Hill so the St Katherine's Road, Notting Hill might be the right one.
it's actually John that is main interest. I know his daughter, Mary went on to marry my gt grandfather Cornelius Harrington in a catholic ceremony and their children were baptised as catholics. I am wondering if Mary was baptised a catholic too. Catholic records are much harder to access so I'd like to eliminate C of E parishes first.
Of the few bachelor John Williams living in and around the Kensington/ Marylebone/Westminster area there are a couple from Ireland. If Mary wasn't baptised C of E it might make the possibilty that John was irish catholic (as were the Harringtons) more likely.
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If it helps at all, here's Hannah in 1861
RG9 1084 fol.83 p.28 North St, Prittlewell, Essex
FULLER
Hannah head wid 64 Gardener's widow
Hannah dau s 29
Sarah Jane " m 20
Frederick gson 7 Scholar
all born Prittlewell
+ 7 lodgers
I see your problem with John, and a death cert would help with his age, but as you obviously know, there are so many John Williams 1865-1871.
Barbara
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If it helps at all, here's Hannah in 1861
RG9 1084 fol.83 p.28 North St, Prittlewell, Essex
FULLER
Hannah head wid 64 Gardener's widow
Hannah dau s 29
Sarah Jane " m 20
Frederick gson 7 Scholar
all born Prittlewell
+ 7 lodgers
I see your problem with John, and a death cert would help with his age, but as you obviously know, there are so many John Williams 1865-1871.
Barbara
Cheers Barbara. I wonder who the parents of Frederick ( grandson) were? If he was Hannah's son then he doesn't appear on any subsequent census' with her and at 20 Sarah Jane seems to be young at 20 to have a 7 year old son.
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I'll have a look in 1851 to see if there's more family:
HO107/1777 fol.282 p.23 North St, Prittlewell
FULLER
John head m 53 Ag. Lab. Cambridge
Hannah wife m 54 Prittlewell
Hannah dau u 19 "
John son u 16 Ag. Lab "
Thomas " 14 " "
Sarah dau 10 Scholar "
John or Thomas, then :)
Barbara
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I'll have a look in 1851 to see if there's more family:
HO107/1777 fol.282 p.23 North St, Prittlewell
FULLER
John head m 53 Ag. Lab. Cambridge
Hannah wife m 54 Prittlewell
Hannah dau u 19 "
John son u 16 Ag. Lab "
Thomas " 14 " "
Sarah dau 10 Scholar "
John or Thomas, then :)
Barbara
Thanks again Barbara,
I must have already looked at this census as I've been trying to work out where in Cambridge John Fuller senior lived. I obviously didn't notice Hannah's sibblings though - stupid really since there what looks to be an M H Fuller (beautiful copperplate writing but almost impoosible to decifer) on Hannah's marriage certificate as one of the witnesses...........presumably not one of her sibblings but maybe a cousin.
I wish I locate John Williams though.
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John, I should think, although Frederick was born Prittlewell! ???
1861 RG9/1061 fol.92 p.59 Orford Rd, Walthamstow
in household of Thomas Millington, Lead & Glass Merchant
Thomas Fuller serv un 24 Gardener & Groom Prittlewell Essex
1861 RG9/351 fol.56 p.5 24 St. Alban's St, Lambeth
John Fuller head m 26 Metropolitan Police Constable attached to L (or could be S) Division Essex Prittlewell
Mary Fuller wife m 27 " wife Essex Leigh
Mary " dau 5 Scholar " Gt. Coggeshall
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John, I should think, although Frederick was born Prittlewell! ???
1861 RG9/1061 fol.92 p.59 Orford Rd, Walthamstow
in household of Thomas Millington, Lead & Glass Merchant
Thomas Fuller serv un 24 Gardener & Groom Prittlewell Essex
1861 RG9/351 fol.56 p.5 24 St. Alban's St, Lambeth
John Fuller head m 26 Metropolitan Police Constable attached to L (or could be S) Division Essex Prittlewell
Mary Fuller wife m 27 " wife Essex Leigh
Mary " dau 5 Scholar " Gt. Coggeshall
Wow Barbara!!! ;D ;) You must really be on a roll today! And I think you've just identified Hannah's witness - presumably John's wife, Mary. There's a policeman in my family. Fancy that!!!
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Stop me if you've had enough:
1871 RG10/1669 fol.23 p.21
Union Workhouse, Rochford, Essex
Hannah Fuller inmate wid 79 Cook Prittlewell
Barbara
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Stop me if you've had enough:
Barbara
;D ;D ;D Never happen!!!
Thanks again.
I may (just may - although it's purely speculation) have found a possible John Williams. There is a John Williams aged 25 in 1861, labourer, unmarried living at 1 New street, Lambeth. RG9/354 folio 28 page 10. I've no idea if this was anywhere near where Hannah's brother John lived but apparently, according to the census he did come from Essex. Of course I could be clutching at straws ???
WILLIAMS John Head Unmarried M 25 Labourer Essex
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It's a possible? It's 3 folios away from Hannah's brother, whatever that might mean, will check on multimap - No, neither street exists anymore, or anyway I can't see them. Why am I looking at census when you have access to them too ??? :D :D
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It's a possible? It's 3 folios away from Hannah's brother, whatever that might mean, will check on multimap - why am I looking at census when you have access to them too ??? :D :D
Possibly because you seem to know what you are looking for? ;D whereas, me, having looked and looked have appeared to miss the bloody obvious ::)
However, since it seem to be such a good day for results I looked up the only John Williams born around 1846 in Essex - sadly his father wasn't called James nor was he a carpenter so maybe not my man after all.
I also looked on freebmd YET AGAIN for deaths of John William's and before about 1865 there are no ages of death given - however, in 1867 there IS a John Williams aged 49 who died in St Martin's. It may ofcourse be pure coincidence but John and Willaim were married at St. Martins. This would make here around 42 or 43 in 1861. The only John Williams labourer unmarried I can find is living at Molyneaux street. St Marylebone. RG9/78 folio 68 page 53............and he's from Ireland.
I'm dreading finding another Irish relative. Irish research is so very difficult. But I'm beginning to have a sneaking suspicion it's him.
I suppose I'll have to order the death certificate to find out whether he was married with a wife called Hannah.
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I wonder if the local reg. office would confirm if the cert says that he was husband of Hannah before you were to buy it. I know our local one would, but they are very good!
What's wrong with Irish relatives (whisper so my sister-in-law doesn't hear)
Barbara
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What's wrong with Irish relatives (whisper so my sister-in-law doesn't hear)
Barbara
Absolutely nothing (still whispering so your sister-in-law doesn't hear) but when they only put "ireland" on the census it makes finding someone in Ireland almost impossible. I've spent the last 2 years and a considerable amount of money looking for my Irish Harringtons - still with no real idea where they came from, other then a strong belief it may have been Cork.
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Hi,
St Katherines road , Notting dale , became Wilsham street ...it was part of an area called the special area , consisting of bangor street , crescent street,st clements road and william street ..