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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lensgarden on Friday 10 August 07 20:14 BST (UK)
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g'day friends,
seeking information on the following person(s):
Christine Wilhelmine Altmann, Geb. Brauer
Birth: 13 Jan 1832
Origin: Seelibbe/Prenzlau
Departure: 1856
Destination: Amerika (United States
born in Auswanderungsakten Brandenburg.
Emigration Records about Christine Wilhelmine Altmann, Geb. Brauer Age: 24 Place of Origin: Seelibbe/Prenzlau Destination: Amerika (United States ) Year: 1856??
1920 United States Federal Census
Name: Wilhelmine Altmann Birth: abt 1844 Arrival: year Residence: 1920 - city, Effingham, Illinois.
she was married before departing from germany/prussia and the rest of her family all came to australia. it appears she added the Christine to her name after arrival in the US of A.
tia
len & bev brauer
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Are you sure the 1920 census record is the same person? Big difference between b.1832 & 1844.
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g'day aghadowey,
the only certainty when searching genealogy data is "uncertainty".
all i did was to include all information that has come my way, my feeling is record takers where fairly casual in those days so anything is probable from past records.
another piece of information i might add is there is/was a store over in the USA somewhere called "altman(n)'s, might be a link as well??
we are wanting to find out all we can about the family to modern day relatives.
keep thinking outside the box on dates and names as well they can alter for no rhyme or reason.
ta
len
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g'day,
we still seek information on wilhelmine brauer/altmann, we apprecaite all information that has come our way since we first posted but that information is so far proven to not be the family we seek.
an <altmann> family was involved in some retail ventures at some stage in the USA whether they are connected/related or not we still are not sure?
what can we do further to try and get information?
tia
len & bev
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g'day friends,
this is what we have to date again all from help from USofA friends:
"Brauer, Wilhelmine (Christine, b.1832
b. Jan 13 1832
Preußen Brandenburg, Prussia
m. Altmann, Christian F
1849
Prussia
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born in Auswanderungsakten Brandenburg. Emigration Records about Christine Wilhelmine Altmann, Geb. Brauer Age: 24 Place of Origin: Seelibbe[the name Seelibbe is wrong. It is called Seelübbe(Seeluebbe)]/Prenzlau Destination: Amerika (United States ) Year: 1856 1870 United States Federal Census, Avena township, Lafiette county, Illinois: name: Wilhelmine Altmann (Christine added later) Birth: jan 13 1832."
they apparently did not show on the next census taken in this locality.
would love to post our online family tree link but not sure if the forum allows for that?
we look forward to further assistance either on the forum or by e/mail or private message.
foot note:
there is nothing to say that the family from effingham census are not related, we already have a contact to the altman(n) family and in the effingham family the wife/mothers maiden name was apparently muchow/munchow and we have connections to that family also.
but at this stage we are looking for more info from Lafiette county onward??
a big tia
len & bev
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You can search U.S. 1880 census (free) at www.familysearch.org
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many thanks aghadowey,
but we feel we must apologise to you and the group, we will not ask this question again or any other on the group.
as in australia the LDS data base is sadly lacking and searching their data base online in the USA from here is slow as slow can be, and again no results of any meaning.
we again wish you all well
len & bev
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Sorry but I don't understand your last post.
The Wilhelmine Altmann in Effingham County, Illinois appears in 1880 U.S. Census living at West, Effingham, Illinois, wife of William Altmann. She died 19 Feb.1932 at West Township, Effingham, Illinois (indexed as Witleamena Altmann- age unknown).
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g'day aghadowey,
if you read again our latest post it identifies that the effingham family is NOT the family we are seeking it further identifies another census taken "1870 United States Federal Census, Avena township, Lafiette county, Illinois:", is the latest information we now have from sources in the USofA.
our informant also indicates that this family in Lafiette county, does not show up on the next census for that county.
what more we can add we don't know as we can only pass on information as it comes described to us.
tia
len & bev
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I understood that you believe the Wilhelmine Altmann in Effingham in 1870 & 1880 is not the one you are looking for but included her death in case there later turns out to be a connection. In your first post you did seem to link them as possibly being the same person in spite of the age difference.
Avena township is in Fayette County not Lafiette so I'm wondering how reliable your source for that information might be.
The bit of your previous post I did not understand was:
but we feel we must apologise to you and the group, we will not ask this question again or any other on the group.
as in australia the LDS data base is sadly lacking and searching their data base online in the USA from here is slow as slow can be, and again no results of any meaning.
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aghadowey,
we are sorry but you seem to be taking this somewhere that we don't want to go and somewhere at the end of the day will only leave wonderment and awe at your motives!!??
the following quote is information from the source it indicates we can't say it any simpler than that:
"1870 United States Federal Census, Avena township, Lafiette county, Illinois:"
FYI i cut and pasted that info so i could be sure i did not create any typo's ok??
so you are saying the US0fA censor for the year 1870 is incorrect? that may be so but if you dwell on that then we will get nowhere ok?
i feel you are quiet capable of searching out that censor and seeing what is written there for your self instead of laying the blame of incorrect data at our feet. we have a copy of that censor page if you wish in our defence we will forward it to you.
we do not know who you are or what station you hold but that is why i wrote that earlier post you are taking this subject to areas we don't want to go, and if no help is available from this board then let that be so.
maybe you can see for yourself that the record keepers in the USofA are no better than the record keepers anywhere else in the world from those years. seems you amybe looking to blame more than looking to help??
len & bev
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Your first post was looking for information on a person which I later referred to. I did not say that you had made an error with 1870 census but merely your source was suspect. You cannot believe everything you see on the internet. Only trying to give you some information and point out the real names of places, etc. but never worry as I won't bother any more about this post.
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your preaching to the converted we are well aware information from any online source can be doubtfull, we are not the ones who want to be pedantic about that matter.
so have a good day to you and the group.
len & bev
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g'day friends,
seeking information on the following person(s):
Christine Wilhelmine Altmann, Geb. Brauer
Birth: 13 Jan 1832
Origin: Seelibbe/Prenzlau
Departure: 1856
Destination: Amerika (United States
born in Auswanderungsakten Brandenburg.
Emigration Records about Christine Wilhelmine Altmann, Geb. Brauer Age: 24 Place of Origin: Seelibbe/Prenzlau Destination: Amerika (United States ) Year: 1856??
1920 United States Federal Census
Name: Wilhelmine Altmann Birth: abt 1844 Arrival: year Residence: 1920 - city, Effingham, Illinois.
she was married before departing from germany/prussia and the rest of her family all came to australia. it appears she added the Christine to her name after arrival in the US of A.
tia
len & bev brauer
Hello,
My name is Robert Butcher, living in Colorado, USA. I believe the person you are seeking is my great-great grandmother. I found a several documents that may prove helpful.
Brandenburg, Prussia Immigration Record
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Age: 32
Place of Origin: Seelibbe/Prenzlau
Destination: Amerika (USA)
Year: 1856
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1824
Germany Lutheran Baptism Record
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Event Type: Taufe (Baptism)
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1824
Baptism Date: 12 Dez 1824 (12 Dec 1824)
Baptism Place: Prenzlau, Brandenburg, Preußen (Germany)
Father: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Mother: Christina Altmann
City or District: Schenkenberg
Author: Evangelische Kirche Baumgarten (Kr. Prenzlau)
Film Number: 72463
Brandenburg Germany Marriage Records
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Birth Date: abt 1825
Marriage Date: 10 Nov 1854
Marriage Place: Gramzow, Brandenburg, Preußen (Germany)
Marriage Age: 29
Event Type: Trauung (Marriage)
Father Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Spouse Name: Christine Wilhelmine Brauer
Spouse Marriage Age: 22
Spouse Father: Christian Brauer
Volume Number: 84
Collection Number: 5
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Gender: Male
Religion: Französisch-Reformierte
Birth Date: 1825
Upon moving to America, it is my understanding they changed their names to Frederick W. Altman and Wilhelmine Bauer. Two known children of this marriage, Frank Altman, born about 1856 in Germany, married Martha (surname unknown from Ohio, born about 1860) about 1879 in Illinois. A second child, "George" Wilhelm Rudolph Altman (born Johann) born 26 Nov 1858 near Buffalo, NY, died 27 May 1944 in Grangeville, Idaho Co, Idaho, USA. George was a farmer in Idaho for many years and married twice, once to Anna Margaret Kief, Born about 1859, died about 1897 in Illinois. They had 6 children:
Florence Ella Altman, F, 1880-1962 Married Charles Edward Daniels 1872-1938
Frederick Walrod Altman, M, April 1, 1885-1955 Married Edna Pearl Kifett 1892-1970
Herbert J. Altman, M, 1887-1912
Alma Altman, F, 1888-1957 Married Arthur Thomas Phelan 1887-1964
Walter George Altman, M, 1892-1955 Married Grace Naser 1895-1981
Emanuel Henry Altman, M, 1895-1975 Married Katie Albeerta Hitchens 1896-1929
George married Cora Etta Hamner 1879-1956
Cora was born in Logan County, Illinois Aug 12, 1870 and was married previously to Isaac B. Viles or Vilas, and died in Grangeville, Idaho Jan 1, 1956. She was my great-grandmother.
I believe they married in Illinois, and moved to Idaho around 1900. Two children resulted from this marriage:
George B. Altman July 17, 1902, died of epilepsy Mar 17, 1917
Edward Ray Altman, Mar 26, 1904-2001 Married Mabel Georgia Webber (1900-1991) Mar 25, 1923.
One child from this marriage, Katherine Marie Altman 1925-2013
Katherine married Walter Wilson Butcher 1920-2010 who was my father although not biological.
I hope this is helpful. I have also found a Ferdinand
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Robert butcher
can you help me further tracing altmann back to germany please I have altmann in Australia
thank you
len brauer
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The only Altman I have been able to trace to Germany with any certainty is Frederick Altman, AKA Christian Friedrich Altmann as near as I can determine. Here is what I found, mostly on ancestry.com
See Altman family tree managed by altman_ken508831
Two children listed on tree
Joel Altman 1862-1944
Rosa A. Altmann 1866
1870 Census Frederick Altman
Name: Fred Altman
Age in 1870: 45
Birth Year: abt 1825
Birthplace: Prussia
Dwelling Number: 13
Home in 1870: Avena, Fayette, Illinois
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: St Elmo
Occupation: Farmer
Father of Foreign Birth: Y
Mother of Foreign Birth: Y
Male Citizen over 21: Y
Inferred Spouse: Wilmena Altman
Inferred Children: Fred AltmanRudolph AltmanMary AltmanJoseph AltmanAbram AltmanLouisiana Altman
Household Members: Name Age
Fred Altman 45
Wilmena Altman 35
Fred Altman 14
Rudolph Altman 12
Mary Altman 9
Joseph Altman 7
Abram Altman 6
Louisiana Altman 2
Brandenburg, Prussia Immigration Record
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Age: 32
Place of Origin: Seelibbe/Prenzlau
Destination: Amerika (USA)
Year: 1856
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1824
Germany Lutheran Baptism Record
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Event Type: Taufe (Baptism)
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1824
Baptism Date: 12 Dez 1824 (12 Dec 1824)
Baptism Place: Prenzlau, Brandenburg, Preußen (Germany)
Father: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Mother: Christina Altmann
City or District: Schenkenberg
Author: Evangelische Kirche Baumgarten (Kr. Prenzlau)
Film Number: 72463
Brandenburg Germany Marriage Records
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Birth Date: abt 1825
Marriage Date: 10 Nov 1854
Marriage Place: Gramzow, Brandenburg, Preußen (Germany)
Marriage Age: 29
Event Type: Trauung (Marriage)
Father Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Spouse Name: Christine Wilhelmine Brauer
Spouse Marriage Age: 22
Spouse Father: Christian Brauer
Volume Number: 84
Collection Number: 5
Name: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Gender: Male
Religion: Französisch-Reformierte
Birth Date: 1825
Marriage Date: 10 Nov 1854
Marriage Place: Gramzow, Gramzow, Angermünde, Brandenburg, Germany
Marriage Age: 29
Father: Christian Friedrich Altmann
Spouse: Christine Wilhelmine Brauer
Volume Year Range: 84, 1849-1860
FHL Film Number: 1334996
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thanks Robert,
looks like no connection in Germany
take care
len