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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: JAP on Sunday 15 July 07 14:13 BST (UK)
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When I try to access those Ancestry sites which are supposed to be free - e.g. UK BMDs - it keeps telling me that I am already a member or, at least, that my email address is already known to them so please provide my password! I assure you I am not a member. Any suggestions please?
JAP
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you may have signed up for a trial in the dim and distant past ?
Try using another email address - I dont think it matters if its 'real', as they dont do any clever authentication ....
;)
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Hi Newfy,
No doubt I did!
But that shouldn't affect access to free parts of Ancestry such as the UK BMD indexes.
Ah well, I guess I should persevere with sorting this out - even if only for the sake of others.
JAP
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Hello JAP,
as I recall from a few years ago, I had to supply an e-mail address and password to register with Ancestry in order to access the England/Wales BMDs and 1881 census. No credit card details were asked for this free registration - just name and e-mail address. A password was sent through, which I changed on my next access.
There is a link "Password (Forgot?)" for Ancestry to send your password if you do not remember the transaction.
Regards,
John
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But that shouldn't affect access to free parts of Ancestry such as the UK BMD indexes.
Your registered email address is the gateway to all things Ancestry .... so if theres a problem with it, you wont get as far as the free stuff.
From a pragmatic viewpoint, just use another address...
If you want to fix the 'problem' be prepared for a few frustrating email exchanges :)
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JAP,
Do let us know how you sort out this one, as I think I may be in the same boat (therefore problems next time I try to access Ancestry's free bits!)
MarieC
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As far as I can discern, all the worthwhile formerly Free bits( Public Member Trees, BMD Images)(Free BMD is a better place to use the BMD Index, but the Images were a Fabulous resource) are now all Subscriber only.
I had no problems with logging on etc, but theres no doubt these items are no longer accessible to non paid up people
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There was another post earlier today about this problem. Was there ever any announcement about changes to what non-subscribers can view?
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Well that's me not using Ancestry again, yes these things need to make money but everyone of them are just getting soooo greedy and I can't afford it. I have a backlog of certs I want that numbers about 200!! so Bye Bye Ancestry, it was nice knowing you :P
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Nightmare isnt it? I'm still hoping its a mistake during the update of the site like it was the last time this happened. I'm fairly sure they aren't allowed to charge for some things, or they'd have done it sooner?
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I have sent a mail via their contact page,it says they will reply within 24 hours ;D ;D ;D Ho,Ho,Ho,
Celia
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I'm sorry, but if Ancestry have indeed now changed the system so that the BMD indexes are no longer accessible free I'm will not be resubscribing...I'll be taking my custom elsewhere to FamilyRelatives.com. I refuse to pay twice as much as I can elsewhere simply for the sake of being able to access their poor census transcriptions in addition to their poorly indexed BMD pages which aren't even complete. ::)
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Hi,
I can get in with no difficulty at all. No idea why people are having trouble. ??? I am a registered user, but not a paying subscriber.
Carmela
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Have you tried actually looking at the images, I got as far as getting the quarters up but then if you actually want to see the image the subscribe now page comes up instead :'(
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It appears you can still access the partially transcribed FreeBMD index and the transcribed post 1984 index... but not the Index Images of the 1837-1983 that you were able to browse freely hitherto.
I'm still hoping this is a mistake as this resource accessed on a pay-per-view basis would constitute a considerable waste of money... but hey! what do they care?
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re certificates needed Have you tried your local Record Office ? I have been obtaining photocopies of marriage certs from my local (Plymouth Devon) They only cost 30p each and have all the same information .These offices are very helpful .
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Dear Celia,
We appreciate your message.
With a new change to our web site, the completed BMD records need a membership to access them. The partial BMD is still free.
If there is anything else with which we might assist you, please let us know.
Mona
Member Solutions
Ancestry.co.uk
http://ancestryuk.custhelp.com/
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Hello
If it is any consolation....
I am a fully paid up subscribing member of Ancestry.co.uk. Up until lunchtime today I could access everything on the site.
Since lunchtime, however, I cannot access very much at all. Even the 1881 census is not fully available :'(
I am assuming that there must be some updating or maintenance taking place on the site that has caused a temporary problem for some subscribers and non subscribers alike.
With any luck it might be very short term :-\
Optimistically
DS
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quote from Simon
I'm will not be resubscribing...I'll be taking my custom elsewhere to FamilyRelatives.com. I refuse to pay twice as much as I can elsewhere simply for the sake of being able to access their poor census transcriptions in addition to their poorly indexed BMD pages which aren't even complete
I have replied to the post stating that very thing will happen. That some subscibers (of which i am not)will not re-subscribing,In protest ;D Contact them and protest,nicely ;D ;D ;D
Celia
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With a new change to our web site, the completed BMD records need a membership to access them. The partial BMD is still free.
They were a little less concise in their reply to me:
Ancestry.co.uk has decided to make its BMD collection available exclusively to subscribing members and Pay Per View users as acquiring, transcribing and then maintaining historical collections is enormously expensive, and we believe it is only fair that those who make a financial contribution to access and help us to maintain and add to Ancestry.co.uk’s historical collections be able to use them.
Which is fair enough, but they might like to draw attention to a change in policy before hand...by, oh I don't know, actually telling people about it. ::) I'd only let my subscription expire because I wasn't using any of their other records only the formerly free BMD indexes...now I certainly won't be patronising them in future. I don't appreciate being treated as a means to profit instead of a human being. What ever happened to treating customers like an asset?
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Dear Celia,
We appreciate your message.
With a new change to our web site, the completed BMD records need a membership to access them. The partial BMD is still free.
If there is anything else with which we might assist you, please let us know.
Mona
Member Solutions
Ancestry.co.uk
http://ancestryuk.custhelp.com/
If this is the case, I think that is very bad form. Those things are incredibly time consuming to search and I imagine pay-per-view would be very unrewarding.
How typical....
I wonder if they realise that "carrots" attract customers?
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Repy allready to the post i just sent :o
Dear Celia,
We appreciate your message.
The reason for the change is because Ancestry.co.uk has decided to make its BMD collection available exclusively to subscribing members and Pay Per View users as acquiring, transcribing and then maintaining historical collections is enormously expensive, and we believe it is only fair that those who make a financial contribution to access and help us to maintain and add to Ancestry.co.uk’s historical collections be able to use them. We offer many different rates and we are also offering 30 days free trial or 20% percent off an annual membership.
If there is anything else with which we might assist you, please let us know.
Mona
Member Solutions
Ancestry.co.uk
http://ancestryuk.custhelp.com/
The partial BMD is still free.
It will takes years to compleat the index though :(
Celia
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Does Ancestry actually have someone other than Mona working in "member solutions"? She's replied to every e-mail so far! ::) It explains a lot about their company if they only have one person in customer services... ;)
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Surprised that free access to the full index has lasted as long as it has ..... theres no such thing as a free lunch - except for the co-hosting of the FreeBMD d/base, which has to remain free under the conditions of its provision.
FreeBMD itself - now it has the resources - is a more flexible search engine - hopefully, transcribing will continue at the same pace.
Ancestry - like the other 'major' players - are in it for profit.
You are an asset - a revenue generating one ;)
One difference is the computing resources that Ancestry have compared to the others .... how many can sustain the userload and scope of searching ?
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No wonder I couldn't get anywhere yesterday! Oh well, summer hols coming up so I guess I can go to the Library and use theirs for free. I can still do that can't I?? ???
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What gets me is that the indexes are a copy of the pages of the books, it's hardly a huge amount of work transcribing them, put in the first and last name on each page and the computer sorts which one you need to see, compared to FreeBMD it's hardly a huge amount of transcribing, it's pure greed.
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What gets me is that the indexes are a copy of the pages of the books, it's hardly a huge amount of work transcribing them, put in the first and last name on each page and the computer sorts which one you need to see, compared to FreeBMD it's hardly a huge amount of transcribing, it's pure greed.
.... and even that has been done APPALLINGLY badly, as anyone who has used them will know
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I am a subscriber and will continue to be one. In comparison to such things as
1) price of certificates
2) price of index CDs in Australia
3) Price of CDs from many Gen societies in the UK
4) money spent at many "pay to view" sites including ScotlandsPeople
5) Cost of information from the National Archives
I find a sub to ancestryUK the cheapest genealogy item I have ever bought. (although the CDs bought from the LDS run a close second).
I have never stored anything in their "shoebox" When I access a census or BDM image I download it to my computer - thus when I no longer have a subscription the images will still be available to me.
The LDS remain the most wonderful source of Free genealogy information. Sadly there are not too many of these left - our world has certainly become a money making emporium!
Trish
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I agree with Trish re the virtues of the LDS. Of course one used to be able to access Ancestry there, but sadly that is no longer possible :'( :'( However, they still deliver a wonderful service!
I don't think the cost of Ancestry is too high, given what is on there. My main beef is with the poor quality of some of their transcriptions! I am not a subscriber mainly because I don't have an awful lot to look up on there any more, and what I do have would not justify the cost of a subscription.
SimonG, what are the good things about FamilyRelatives.com?
MarieC
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Does Ancestry actually have someone other than Mona working in "member solutions"? She's replied to every e-mail so far! ::) It explains a lot about their company if they only have one person in customer services... ;)
Hi Simon,
Customer services - especially complaints departments often give a "name" - one name - when in fact there will be several if not 10-20 people handling queries. Companies think it adds a "personal" touch, trouble is if you make regular queries/complaints it becomes obvious. Now it can become annoying but it does safeguard the real Mona's of this world from abuse and stalkers. I think who ever thought up "Mona" had a wicked sense of humour and devilment to use the name. :D
Genes also did the same after it was sold, they carried on using the original name. I happened to make a comment on another forum about it, in a tongue in cheek sort of way, and got the message pulled and immediately after that Genes changed the name for the complaints dept... :o
jc
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SimonG, what are the good things about FamilyRelatives.com?
I've recently been using them for the overseas returns of the UK BMD index (which they have available free), and was quite impressed. It did take a little getting used too, but after a few searches I found it quite a useful little place.
They also offers the 19th Century census returns (excluding 1881, and they also don't have 1901), as well as the complete BMD index to 2005 (which they also claim to be fully indexed for certain dates), the Great War dead, a number of military records (I'm not at all sure what these include...they just mention WW1 army & navy as well as WW2 navy, army & RAF), and a number of parish registers (they appear to be the Phillimore transcripts you sometimes get free with Family Tree Magazine).
The most attractive thing is they're currently running an special offer giving a price of only £37.50 for the year...half the cost of a year's subscription to Ancestry UK. For the average user, what they offer on FamilyRelatives seems to be quite reasonable...certainly for anyone just wanting census and BMD material, they are far more cost effective.
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Hi Simon
That sounds interesting - I will go and have a browse
Trish
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Thanks, Simon,
Good to hear your experiences with FamilyRelatives! I've read a range of opinions on RC, so it's good to know yours.
That certainly sounds a good deal. Wonder if their transcriptions are more accurate than those of Ancestry? ??? ???
MarieC
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Hi MarieC,
Surely there is no way any transcriptions could be less accurate than Ancestry's ;D
JAP
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Well, that's ME stuffed too! :(
I used to spend hours on a Sunday and in the hols (I'm a teacher) trawling through the marriages and deaths looking to tie up loose ends.
I can still get into the partial records, but they're no use to me now.
Might have to make more requests on the board because of this ... sorry in advance!
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Ah but surely Ancestry's answer to this dilemma is.......just spend a lot of your hard earned on a subscription! Ancestry should have their philosophy at the top of every page
We are here to help you, with our accurate transcriptions and our focus on what you the mug..ahem consumer needs, and sod anyone who cannot afford it. :(
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Ah but surely Ancestry's answer to this dilemma is.......just spend a lot of your hard earned on a subscription! Ancestry should have their philosophy at the top of every page
We are here to help you, with our accurate transcriptions and our focus on what you the mug..ahem consumer needs, and sod anyone who cannot afford it. :(
Hi MP
Many of us do have a subscription & think it is good value. Most hobbies have a cost associated with them & family history is no exception. I have found a sub to ancestry one of my best value expenses. I have had it for 2 years, will probably take 1 more year & then stop.
Sadly for many researchers Ancestry have decided to remove free access to most of their data. As a business they would obviously prefer folks to pay. Other sites with the bdm images (e.g. findmypast - or whatever its new name is) have been charging to access the images for years.
When the new online indexes from GRO are available next year, we shall see if the govt has decided to make them free or charge
Trish
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Hi Trish
Ancestry may be good value but it is still expensive when you don't have the cash. I'm not objecting to paying for what (in the 2 years I've been at this) I've always had to pay for but what annoys me is the greed aspect of restricting the BMD's. At their usual rate of 1 credit per view it's not worth a pay per view 12 for £7 or whatever it is which is how I usually do it.
If I wanted to find the birth of say....Sarah Smith in approx 1865 I'd have to look a couple of years either side, so at the minimum that's 20 credits and no guarantee you've even found the right one for the vast amount of money it just cost, it's not as if they find the answers for you, you still have to trawl through them.
I'll stick to freeBMD from now on, Ancestry's greed has really made me cross.
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if I wanted to find the birth of say....Sarah Smith in approx 1865 I'd have to look a couple of years either side, so at the minimum that's 20 credits and no guarantee you've even found the right one for the vast amount of money it just cost, it's not as if they find the answers for you, you still have to trawl through them.
I used to have to search for this on microfilm at the LDS Centre - that did take hours and hours. Each quarter was about 6 films.
I paid alot of money to another site in the past for an online pay as you go type of search & will not use the site now. If you have a subscription you can search as many times as you like for no extra charge. I agree, everything is expensive, you are not obligated to use it, but no-one is obligated to provide it for free (except RootsChat - everything here is free ;D ;D )
Try the site mentioned by Simon - it appears to be cheaper, based on the annual fee & seems to provide almost as much as Ancestry (if you don't have Scottish folks) - but I haven't yet used it, so don't know anything other than what Simon has said.
FreeBDM is wonderful & will eventually have all the records but at the minute is only useful to c. 1920
Trish
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Hi
Censuses are not yet available on Familyrelatives.com I'll be interested to see what their subscription is when they are.
Andy
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Well, I'm the goof who started this thread! And my query has now ceased to be relevant given Ancestry's "greed". Incidentally, to whose who answered earlier, yes of course I tried (several times) the 'forgot password' facility - no answer/deathly silence was the stern reply. And I was about to try some made-up email addy when the guillotine struck.
Something I do wonder is why ancestry.co.uk started off providing the England & Wales BDMs for free ...
I'd always assumed that it was because they weren't allowed to 'sell' the public GRO Indexes - but apparently not ???
JAP
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Firstly I am sorry if this post is in the wrong section and I apologise.
But I am having a problem with Ancestry.co.uk and the supposed Free BMD. I am registered with Ancestry and logged in, but it will not allow me to view the BMD unless I pay. Now it has never done this before and I was infact viewing the BMD without problem this morning.
Has anyone else experiencing the same and will I know have to pay to look up BMD indexes?
Moderator comment: topics merged
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Yes there are problems. i'll just look for the previous posts on this very thing.
Pauline
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I still think
http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/nameindex/products.php
is the best value ;)
Celia
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Hope you dont do any lookups from their databases - they rigorously enforce their T's & C's .....
bemused how the word greed can really be applied to this topic ..... ::)
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Oh piddle! This has really sunk me. I used to browse the BMD during the times I was waiting to save up enough money to buy some credits. Unfortunately I'm not in the position to afford a subscription to Ancestry. :'(
Edited to add: Maybe Ancestry.co.uk should remove the word Free from the BMD section lists now
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The partial BMD is still free.
If there is anything else with which we might assist you, please let us know.
Mona
Member Solutions
Ancestry.co.uk
http://ancestryuk.custhelp.com/
Nope it's telling me I have to pay if I want to view the Partial BMD as well :'(
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this has really upset me i have just been using the bmd index lately to find things for certs and now it would not even be worth me subscribing to ancestry
it is sad how this will efect so many people because of one persons greed
well goodbye Ancestry for me :(
wileman 121
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Putting in my 2 cents.
Ancestry was providing a service that was FREE. It was affording people the luxury of surfing through the GRO index at 2am in their nightie while eating chocolate cake and drinking a G&T....if that is what they wanted to do....I prefer vodka and orange!
As a business, they have made a decision to include that portion of their service into their subscriptions. The GRO index is still FREE at your local library or Records Center or if you are in another part of the world you can view the index at a LDS Family History Center.
If you want to see more of the GRO index for FREE, then I would suggest that you sign up and start transcribing with FreeBMD. I have been transcribing for FreeCen and have already done over 10,000 names......so...I am doing my bit.
I think Ancestry provides a great SERVICE.....warts and all!
Indi ;D ;D ;D
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From : http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/FAQ.html#9
11. Could the database ever be used to create a commercial product or service?
No. The ONS granted the right to place the database on the Internet on the condition that access to it be free of charge. Any commercialisation of the database would require the ONS' prior and very improbable authorisation.
For what it's worth I hope that Ancestry will back down on this; given their usual cock-ups on updates i wouldn't be at all surprised to find out they 'got it wrong'.
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From : http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/FAQ.html#9
11. Could the database ever be used to create a commercial product or service?
No. The ONS granted the right to place the database on the Internet on the condition that access to it be free of charge. Any commercialisation of the database would require the ONS' prior and very improbable authorisation.
For what it's worth I hope that Ancestry will back down on this; given their usual cock-ups on updates i wouldn't be at all surprised to find out they 'got it wrong'.
This surely relates to freeBDM, not the full indexes. 1837online started years ago charging to view the images (and cost me a fortune while I learned about the English system) - and other sites now charge. I believe it will all be irrelevant within a year when the GRO provides new indexes - meanwhile something that was free is no longer free - very sad and the usual commercial option.
Trish
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Hi MarieC,
Surely there is no way any transcriptions could be less accurate than Ancestry's ;D
JAP
JAP,
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
MarieC
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The partial BMD is still free.
http://ancestryuk.custhelp.com/
Nope it's telling me I have to pay if I want to view the Partial BMD as well :'(
Use the direct link to freeBDM - I like the format better than the one on Ancestry - and it is often more up to date
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
Trish
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Sorry, but some of these posts have put my back up. I agree that Ancestry could have given advance warning that they were going to withdraw the free access. However, from another point of view, I think many subscribers were annoyed about the free access. I have a full subscription to Ancestry (US records as well), and given that for the last few months I've used the BMD indexes far more than any other records, I was beginning to wonder what I was paying for. The annual fee does not work out at good value for money if you apply it to records other than the full BMD indexes.
I know a lot of peope are saying that withdrawing the free services is unfair, but at the end of the day, what you are losing is a free service which gives you the ability to search records in the comfort and convenience of your own home. The indexes are still available to be searched for free. There's also the point that with the way Ancestry were running things, the cost of providing that 'free' service was being subsidised by paying members.
I appreciate that many people can't afford to subscribe to Ancestry, and I'm sorry. I have other interests where I have to restrict my involvement because of cost - but that's life. Genealogy is NOT a cheap hobby, but at the end of the day many records are available to access free of charge. Yes, there is an associated cost, either of paying to view those records online, or travelling to view the records themselves. Unfortunately, which ever option people are going to use, they don't have the right to expect those costs to be subsidised by other enthusiasts.
Silvilocks
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Unfortunately, which ever option people are going to use, they don't have the right to expect those costs to be subsidised by other enthusiasts.
It'll be interesting to see if the lookup requests for BMDs increase on here !
On a related issue .....
When I see the number of Census lookup requests for some half-a-dozen individuals on here I wonder a bit ...... I'm quite happy to help people starting off their research, really enjoy getting stuck into a mystery and/or helping verifying somebodies interpretation of an image, perhaps being another 'pair of eyes' .... but for a select few, it seems that their whole research is based on others generosity in using their subscriptions !
Probably this wont be a popular posting - but as Silvilocks says, any hobby has associated costs, and I doubt that people would expect a free ride in stamp-collecting for example ....
INCOMING :)
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I doubt that people would expect a free ride in stamp-collecting for example ....
ROFL ;D ;D
(though I don't mind a bit "paying for others" - ancestry subscriptions were the same price before they put the BMDs online anyway I believe)
I can't quite relate to some posts on this thread - there wouldn't be complaints now if ancestry hadn't made the images available for free in the first place. Before they did, nobody was complaining about the index being per pay view at 1837online/findmypast ???
Let's just be happy it lasted so long ;)
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I
can't quite relate to some posts on this thread - there wouldn't be complaints now if ancestry hadn't made the images available for free in the first place. Before they did, nobody was complaining about the index being per pay view at 1837online/findmypast
Very good point ! 8)
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Before they did, nobody was complaining about the index being per pay view at 1837online/findmypast ???
I sure did Tati ;D ;D When 1837 first had the index, they were indexed via first 3 char of start/end name on each page - and it was pay to view only - now that was a licence to print money. I was always very thankful to ancestry that it stopped that little money making scheme. I have never been back to that site, but I do have a sub to ancestry (UK only).
Trish
Edit: I also think the National Archives charge way too much for their data e.g. 1901 census
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When 1837 first had the index, they were indexed via first 3 char of start/end name on each page - and it was pay to view only - now that was a licence to print money.
Sigh ... dreadful times I agree ... I spent fortunes on there searching for Stevens and Chapmans :P :P
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How long have the complete BMD records been available for free on Ancestry?
I haven't been doing this family history lark for very long and I think I remember when they were subscription only. It was wonderful when they became freely available - I am surprised it was free for so long. I think we all got used to that and it has come as a shock to have it taken away.
I have been reluctant to pay for an annual subscription for Ancestry due to the cost, however I wish I'd done that in the early days of my research instead of requesting so many lookups on here :).
I have recently paid for a monthly subscription. They are currently offering a percentage off subscriptions - and I paid only 8 pounds 47 pence ($18 or so Aussie dollars). You can actually get an awful lot of searching done in that time, so maybe this would be an option for those who are reluctant to pay the annual fee or for credits (don't understand why anyone would buy credits on Ancestry, but there you go). I'm going to sign up for another month when I find that I have more ancestors to find.
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... When I see the number of Census lookup requests for some half-a-dozen individuals on here I wonder a bit ...... I'm quite happy to help people starting off their research, really enjoy getting stuck into a mystery and/or helping verifying somebodies interpretation of an image, perhaps being another 'pair of eyes' .... but for a select few, it seems that their whole research is based on others generosity in using their subscriptions ! ...
Hi Newfy, I too "wonder a bit" - and I'm sure there are many others who "wonder a bit". But there are others who clearly disagree completely. There are some people who obviously enjoy nothing better than looking up, typing out and posting information - whether they are using their Ancestry subscriptions or are even doing lookups from free resources such as the IGI, FreeCEN, FreeBMD and various regional sites which are just as easily accessible to the "select few" (as you term them ;) ). To each his or her own! So I guess it will continue and some of us will simply continue to "wonder a bit".
But wouldn't it be nice if certain (not all) of the "select few" didn't repeatedly fail to indicate what information they already have and didn't repeatedly fail to link to other relevant threads. And, given the enjoyment one can get out of researching and finding one's ancestors oneself, it does seem a bit odd that such persons don't want to do (and/or don't want to learn to do) their own lookups - even on free sites.
Ah well ...
JAP
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And, given the enjoyment one can get out of researching and finding one's ancestors oneself, it does seem a bit odd that such persons don't want to do (and/or don't want to learn to do) their own lookups - even on free sites.
Yep, spot on JAP.
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To the best of my knowledge the full GRO index/images have only been available on ancestry for a couple of years; from the start many people suspected that the free access was merely a trial run and that they would become pay per view at some time.
We are complaining about the loss of something that has only been available for a short time. How did we cope before that? By waiting patiently for more information to become available on free BMD or by going to our local record office or Family History Centre and trawling through acres of microfilm. Many people still do the latter!
The internet has made us (I include myself!) too impatient for instant information and not prepared for the long haul.
Jennifer
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What has happened to the Ancestry website?? For years I've been using it for bmd info, but in the past few days I've tried searching and I'm being told I have to subscribe to view the indexes!!
Is this a new thing, have they realised the popularity of genealogy and started charging for basic information!!!!
Now I have to go to my library, just to search the bmd indexes.
I'm not happy!!!
Moderator comment: topics merged
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you could use -- http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ --- getting close to complete for the 19th C, and working up to 1920 quite well .....
Yes, Ancestry have finished their free period for the full GRO Indexes .... see other threads in the last 4 days ....
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Well said Jap & jen.B. ;D
Hali-benny
Now I have to go to my library, just to search the bmd indexes.I'm not happy!!!
Thats what we all had to do before the G.R.O was put on-line,thats real research ;D
Yes jen b thats true
I once had a private request from a lady who had been doing her tree for 2/3 years she did have some info of the internet.She wanted a death look up for a year that was not available on the internet.I said i was happy to do the lookup on the G.R.O Fitch at the library.
She asked me what a G.R.O & a Fitch was and why did i have to Library, she didn't have a clue ;D ;D It was obvious she had done most of he research sitting on her bum ;D ;D ;D
Celia
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Hi Celia,
That's a gorgeous typo (fitch for fiche) ;D Fitch = a polecat which gives off an unpleasant odour when threatened :D
Of course, it's not just that people prefer to do their research sitting on their bahookies (nice Glesga patter word!) - well, surely all of us who spent years and years of going to libraries and looking at fiche and winding through films, etc, etc also prefer it - but that some people won't even do the research which they can do (so often for free) sitting on their bahookies at their computers. Some even want others to look up free answers and serve them up to them on a plate.
Funny old world, eh!
JAP
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That's a gorgeous typo (fitch for fiche) Fitch = a polecat which gives off an unpleasant odour when threatened
The Librarian has been correcting me for years,every time i ask for the fitch box ;D I cannot get rid of T
Now i know where the saying comes from."You smell like a Polecat" must remember that ;D ;D
Celia
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Hi,
Does anyone know when they stop giving a free access to the full BMD indexes on the Ancestry??
I was surprised to find this out just moments ago...now I am not able to find the marriage(s) to determine if the death entry I found was her or not. :'(
Kind regards,
Tees
Moderator comment: topics merged
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The internet has made us (I include myself!) too impatient for instant information and not prepared for the long haul.
I don't think it's so much that people are dissatisfied at having to pay for access to the BMD index, but more the case that we're dissatisfied at having to pay for Ancestry's poorly transcribed and incomplete version of it. All it took to get the images properly indexed was to take the first and last name from the pages, and very often they couldn't even get that right (blind ignoring the massive "T" in the corner of a page for example, and misreading "Taylor" and "Faylor"...amongst other things). If they were spending the money employing people with a little common sense to transcribe things, instead of using OCR or whatever it is they use, then there wouldn't be so much issue when they remove access to something based on "the expense of transcribing material".
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I don't think it's so much that people are dissatisfied at having to pay for access to the BMD index, but more the case that we're dissatisfied at having to pay for Ancestry's poorly transcribed and incomplete version of it.
I really don't think it is that bad Simon. Problems exist in the index when insertions have been made on a page (and they are never done particularily well by the index ceompilers). It is relatively simple to resolve the problems. There are a few pages completely missing - that is annoying - but they may not exost in the originals!
Trish
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Can I have my two cents here?
If I see someone asking for a lookup on a free site, I will gently direct them to the site to look for themselves. If someone was asking for a lookup on a pay site for which I had a sub, I would not hesitate in looking. I don't think we can or should ever judge the situation of another person. For example, for myself I don't have enough people left to look for to make subs to most pay sites worthwhile. If I find something else to look for, I'll ask my kind Rootschatter friends who have offered, but it won't be enough to be a real imposition (hopefully!!!)
I am now looking pre civil registration in England, and in other countries which are not easy!
Several years ago, I was the very grateful recipient of help from a Rootschatter with a sub who went far beyond the call of duty! She was incredibly generous and I think this is the spirit of Rootschat.
I constantly trawl the general boards to see if there is a question I can answer, and do lookups in the local cemetery for Rootschatters. I don't mind answering simple queries which have been answered before, if the person is a beginner. I remember what it was like when I was a beginner. I do all this freely and gladly, and in gratitude for the help I have received!
MarieC
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Hi MarieC,
I agree with you in spades. And obviously we're not referring to Newfy's "select few" ;D
And, again to quote Newfy's excellent words:
I'm quite happy to help people starting off their research, really enjoy getting stuck into a mystery and/or helping verifying somebodies interpretation of an image, perhaps being another 'pair of eyes' ....
All the best to all,
JAP
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LOL - I've even paid for a Birth Cert for somebody on here, so I'm not unaware that some have it tough financially - just dislike what I can only interpret as being taken advantage of .....
PS. Thinking about it, the 'select few' probably wont read this thread, given its title ;D ;D
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Ancestry don't make any pretence to be anything other than a commercial organisation. They don't obtain and index their information at zero cost, and they aren't staffed by volunteers.
If they allow a free sample of one of their products for a while in the hope that the people who make use of it then take out a subscription - what is so surprising about that? My local supermarket sometimes hands out free samples, but I don't think anyone helps themselves and then complains that the grasping store owners are only trying to make money out of people's natural liking for a glass of wine.
Even though their products are flawed, a subscription to Ancestry is an awful lot cheaper for me than traveling to all the places where the originals are held, and good value as far as I am concerned.
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Exactly !
Thank God for common sense.
I made a tentative reference to the use of 'Greed', but it got buried in the flurry that followed.. ;)
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I really don't think it is that bad Simon.
Admittedly it's not the end of the world where there's mistakes in the transcriptions, even if it can be frustrating. My problem is though that they claim it's so expensive to transcribe things, but they don't make any effort to use their profits to correct mistakes they may have made. Their system for users to correct transcription errors on the census with no cost to Ancestry isn't even up to much. If they were using the money they're making to provide a better transcription service instead of ignoring their mistakes, there'd be no issue.
I mean if you did that in any other business you'd be in trouble. It's the equivalent of a man going in to have his tonsils removed, and waking up to find he's been given an orchidectomy instead. While that example is a bit extreme and largely flippant it is true that in certain businesses accuracy is the key, and presentation of information is one of them. Maybe I'm just being naive, but surely even a commercial organisation should strive to provide a flawless service so as to better entice people to part with their money. Surely that's only sensible business practice.
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Seems to be back
Try it
Sylviaann
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I can also access the BMD *insert confused smillie*
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JAP and Newfy,
We're singing from the same hymn sheet!!! ;D ;D
PS. Thinking about it, the 'select few' probably wont read this thread, given its title ;D ;D
Newfy, LOL!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Gallium, I was one of those who always expected Ancestry to start charging for those bmd's. Now if they are back free, as Sylviaann says - I'm confused!!! ??? ???
MarieC
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The list is free, but you have to pay to view the orginal image. Where as before it would only give you the name and all other information was omitted during a search the information is now back. If that makes any sense at all.
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Maybe Ancestry decided they'd better start charging before freebmd gets so good that no-one will want to use the Ancestry images! ::) :P
MarieC
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I just tried and got no names - nothing.
Is it OK to ask this here (not worth starting a new thread) ... are Ancestry still offering the 14 day free trial? This offer used to appear on the home page, but now I can't seem to find it anywhere.
I think I read on one thread that they are offering a 30 day free trial? Does anyone know if this is so, and how can one take advantage of it?
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I can still get free information here http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx but it is a bit like the freebmd site http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
I don't think there are any free trials at the moment, they keep changing them.
Sylviaann
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Well I don't know. Yesterday I looked someone up and it produced a list of my ancestor births.
Today I get a list but but says first name, second name.
I give up
Sylviaann
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I think Ancestry has lost the plot at times. I have no choice, i have to register a birth marriage or death by law. i do not have the right to say what happens with my personal details like with the electoral roll. My details are just sold on and i have to pay to see them or of any on my family. I have found Ancestry to be one of the best milking machines. I don't mind paying but i do mind when the infomation i have paid for is wrong or incomplete. They never gave any warning of any changes they were planning to make or when they would be made. I think they have just got to big and mighty , for got where they get there infomation from.
Migky :(
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When did it become payable
Mrs Griff
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Images became payable about a week ago.
Transcribed (freeBMD) indexes were free (again) last time I checked
Pauline
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Awful isn't it :'(
However Mrs Griff they are still available from your public library FOC on microfiche
Wendi :)
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And many public libraries have subscriptions to Ancestry - which means you can consult anything on Ancestry free of charge if you are able to get to such a library.
JAP
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And many public libraries have subscriptions to Ancestry - which means you can consult anything on Ancestry free of charge if you are able to get to such a library.
JAP
As I have relatives scatted all over the world I would really like to subscribe to Ancestry (inspite of all the horrible transcription errors, difficult searching at times, etc.) but cannot afford to do so. Unfortunately my local libraries do not have subscriptions to Ancestry. The LDS library is never open the hours posted and do not even have local records on microfilm. Therefore, for many bits of information I am dependant on whatever records are available online and the kindness of many people here on Rootschat.
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aghadowey
The LDS centres don't have full Ancestry any more, either - that arrangement fell over! :( :( :'( I think you can consult census indexes and that's about all. A sad day, it was... :'(
MarieC
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aghadowey, I was very careful to say "if you are able to get to such a library". You more than deserve any help you can get from others given your unvarying helpfulness.
But I don't think it hurts to keep on reminding RootsChatters that there are many public libraries with Ancestry access, and also to mention local LDS FHCs - there are always newcomers to RC, and also longer term members who might never have known or who might have forgotten.
I guess I'm lucky as my state library has Ancestry access (or did last time I tried!) and there are several LDS FHCs within driving distance (one less than 5min drive away). And those that I've gone to stick to their advertised opening hours (which include at least one evening opening) and have very helpful volunteer staff.
Just one little gripe - when a 'new broom' came in, my state library gave away its IGI fiche (against the advice of its genealogists) because "they took up too much room" and "it's all online now"! And we know that the ancient IGI fiche sometimes contain more information than the online IGI ...
Such is life!
JAP
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Just to sumarise
Public libraries in England have access to BDM as do LDS centres. It is how we used to do it in the old days. You do have to search quarter by quarter. Freebmd is available on-line although not complete
LDS usually have census or you can order them. You just can't search by surname. A lot of people on here have discs of census or are members of ancestry and may be willing to search.
Jap you are right about the microfiche of the LDS. It gave the mothers maiden name if it was on the record. I got copies of the names I was researching 320 years ago. Very useful
Sylviaann
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aghadowey
The LDS centres don't have full Ancestry any more, either - that arrangement fell over! :( :( :'( I think you can consult census indexes and that's about all. A sad day, it was... :'(
MarieC
Hi Marie
I think most commercial family history organisations would not be at all keen on the LDS offerings - unheard of to provide information & assistance at no charge! I'm always amazed as to what they charge for CDs compared to commercial, gen society and govt prices - and as for free access to their online data !! :D :D :D
Trish
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Hi Marie
I think most commercial family history organisations would not be at all keen on the LDS offerings - unheard of to provide information & assistance at no charge! I'm always amazed as to what they charge for CDs compared to commercial, gen society and govt prices - and as for free access to their online data !! :D :D :D
Trish
You're spot on, Trish! I wasn't at all criticising the LDS for that arrangement going belly up - I'm sure it was Ancestry that pulled the pin, not the LDS! I am currently ratting through another of their microfilms, hired in for the ridiculously cheap price of $5! I constantly tell them that I don't know what I'd do without them!
MarieC
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Can anyone tell me if this site has changed, before I could search the BMD section free now it seems that this no longer possible and you have to pay, is this the case.
Regards Peter.
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sadly, yes.
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I have access to Ancestry, but still use FreeBMD, as it's almost as good.
Or there's always RootsChat! ;D
meles
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The "Partial Free BMD" is still free; I've just checked it.
Nanny Jan
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Under the terms of Ancestry's agreement with FreeBMD, it has to remain free.
Its the Full GRO Index thats sadly gone to pay-status...
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Yeah, I was disappointed by that, they at least used to give you a free trial without asking you for credit card details. Their tactic seems to have worked however as it's coaxed me into buying a month's subscription.
It is a pretty useful website though.
Check your local library to see if it has a subscription to the website, as I've heard some libraries do.
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If you live in Wales at least, your library should have free access. The Welsh Assembly paid out for all libraries and archives to have access to Ancestry, at least so I was told when I went for a job interview at the Glamorgan Record Office last Tuesday.
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Did you get the job? now think before you answar ;D because this lot will never leave you alone if you did get the job ;D
Migky ;)
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Do let us know Simon - I am so envious - would love to work in a Records office/archives area!!
Trish
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He won't tell us, Trish! In case he gets swamped with requests!! ::) Go Simon, go you good thing, all of Rootschat is barracking for you! ;D ;D
MarieC
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I start Tuesday, but am not really in a position to do requests unfortunately. :P For now I'm stuck bringing documents out of the strong room when they're requested and helping move stuff too and from their new location (the office is, apparently, moving from it's current location in Cardiff University down to Cardiff Bay in the coming year).
I've a bit of a way to go yet before I'm transcribing documents for them. :P I've noticed though, they no longer have a member of staff supervising the parish register room. I think that's such a shame. How many times have we all been looking a the PRs and need a little help or advise? I think they should let me do that!!! ;D
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Hi Simon
Well done and congratuations - the man at our archives who brings the info up/down often comes & tells me it is on the shelf - or delivers it to my desk ;D ;D Always asks if I've found what I want & sometimes insists on helping - I worry that he should be elsewhere - but who remembers time when discussing such interesting things as 1875 council rates ;D ;D
Don't get too carried away reading instead of moving
I have no Glamorgan folks (that I know about) so I will be very good & ask you nothing ;D ;D
Trish
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Brave fellow, Simon! :D
I won't be bothering you about Glamorgan either! :) Congratulations. Before you know where you are, you'll have got yourself into the parish register room and will be in your element! ;D ;D ;D
MarieC
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This is all part of a clever plot to be able to research my own Glamorgan lot...I mean, um...I love the Record Office. ;D ;)
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Congrats Simon. You have my dream job!
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Congrats Simon...working in any part of a Records Office must be fantastic.....i'm going greener by the minute...well done ;D
Steve :D
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Hope to see you someday i live in Glamorgan and often use the Record office , i will make myself known to you
Best Wishes and Well Done !!
Mrs Griff
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You can always go straight to FreeMBD, and bypass Ancestry.co.uk.
They are at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
This site is completely free and has some features I've not found on Ancestry.
They are also running FreeREG (parish register transcriptions) and FreeCEN (their own transcriptions of the censuses) but it's early days yet for these two projects.
For example, you know that John Smith married Mary ?
If you find John's marriage On FreeBMD you can then see all the people on that page of the register (NOT the index), usually only 4, two men and two women.
One will be Mary Jones and the other Joan Blogs.
Now you've found Mary's maiden name and the registry entry, you can get the Marriage cert. and find their fathers, and so on.
You don't even have to know Mary's name at all. Look up the other man in the next census and find his wife's name (Joan), then by a process of elimination, the other woman is John's wife. Doesn't always work, but well worth a try.
Not so easy to do on Ancestry as it only seems to have the index, dozens of people on one page, not always with their spouse's name.
I could be wrong on this but I've not found the data in the same format as FreeBMD.
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The problem with the FreeBMD solution at this present time is that it's not complete. I've no doubt in a few more years once they've completed their work that no-one in their right mind is ever going to pay anyone for the indexes (unless, of course, Ancestry or whoever get DOVE when it's completed), but for now there's nearly a century of entries we're all dependent on paid subscriptions for.
If you have Kent ancestors and are looking for a marriage, though, it's far easier to check out the Kent Registration Services index at http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/home.html. With them you can find out the exact date and even the location (providing you know which church a registration number corresponds too...there's a list of them somewhere online to download), and of course the Medway region offer their parish registers online. Some other counties also have similar projects running for their local indexes (I recall reading in FTM last month about the Isle of Wight's project). Really if projects like these continue to be introduced, in the future we're not going to need the indexes as they exist on Ancestry at all...but for the time being, we're pretty much stuck.
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Amazing then how after 20 years of searching I have never subscribed to an internet site. How on earth have I managed? I've only asked for a few lookups of census information recently.
Oh yes of course I got it free at my library or LDS centre(in England)
But then I'm a poor pensioner.
Sylviaann
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Ironically it would cost me more to get to my "local" LDS centre than it would cost for a months subscription to Ancestry... :P
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Amazing then how after 20 years of searching I have never subscribed to an internet site. How on earth have I managed? I've only asked for a few lookups of census information recently.
Oh yes of course I got it free at my library or LDS centre(in England)
But then I'm a poor pensioner.
Sylviaann
Hi Sylviann
My local LDS centre (in Australia) had the St Caths indexes on microfilm. I once spent about 3 hours looking for 1 family. Their name began with M & they were invariably at the end of each film. In 3 hours with manual wind/rewind I think I got through about 15 years. The films were shared between a couple of centres & if memory is correct it cost me $2.50 each time I used them - I certainly didn't object to paying the money to support the centre - but ancestry is definitely cheaper & somewhat faster :) :) As with most things in my life - things change & eventually one embraces the technology
Trish
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Oh yes I'm sorry it will be cheaper in Australia then.
I went every week for about 7 years to my local LDS and yes the names are always at the end of the reel (microfilm here)
I did also manage to get back to 1670 by looking at the films of parish registers. The BDM was free but the film cost a very small amount to hire.
Here in England we can also access BDM at our public libraries, free.
Of course it goes without saying that I started before anything was on the internet so there was no alternative.
Any BDM I want now I can get from Freebmd so I definately won't be subcribing to ancestry. Everyone else is welcome to it.
Sylviaann
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I got my free 6 months subscription to Ancestry.co.uk through the purchase of the latest version of Family Tree Maker, and they work together pretty well. However I doubt that I will be renewing when it runs out - too expensive. The slight downside to the subscription is that it is only for the UK records, many of the US records are not included, but still shown, as locked, in the FTM search results. Fortunately for me I'm not interested in them.
Now, as the devil's advocate I will make a small defense of Ancestry.co.uk. If you go to the individual census year search pages (Ancestrry.co.uk/census > select a year) you can do wild card searches, even to the extent of getting EVERYONE (don't enter a name) in a parish / town or even county! (about 300,000 people in Essex in 1841 is a bit of overkill). I don't think this is possible on any other census site I've come across, but then I don't subscribe to any others.
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Oh yes I'm sorry it will be cheaper in Australia then.
I went every week for about 7 years to my local LDS and yes the names are always at the end of the reel (microfilm here)
Sylviaann
For some years in the 1980/90s my Mum went every 2 weeks (I think her local centre was only open once a fortnight). They had some type of a computer she used to use & I remember she told me everything took such a long time because she kept forgetting to press the "return" key & just waited for something to happen :) It wasn't until some years later that I benefited from her patience :) :)
I doubt that all centres in Australia charge in a similar fashion - and many did have fiche rather than film. It was probably a method for raising some much needed funds for more resources & as said I didn't mind paying. I do think it would have taken me forever to find all that I have found by using ancestry, so I don't complain about the subscription
Trish.
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is ancestry charging to view bmds now aswell? :-\
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Yes, apart from the partial free bmds.
Nanny Jan