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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Jamjar on Sunday 05 August 07 15:11 BST (UK)
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Greetings,
Does anyone know where this could be?
It is listed as the place of death, in 1892, of Margaret Little, nee Shankland, aged 82.
I tootled out to Kirkmichael Kirk to see if she was buried there. No luck. She isn't buried at Dryfesdale, or Tundergarth, either.
Margaret was the co-proprietor, with hubby David Little, of the King's Arms Hotel in Lockabie
Jamjar
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Well silly me, I just realised that I didn't check the Church of Scotland cemetery. That's where she'll be, I bet.
Had a look at the 1891 census. Kirkmichael Grove was the first on Dumfries Rd. Those following were:
Brookland
Spring Lea
Bell Vue
Ravenshill
Would Dumfries Rd house order run from the lights at the police station end?
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar,
I will be able to confirm your query tomorrow. Watch this space...
A 1892 burial in Lockerbie would most likely have been in the cemetery brae cemetery about 2 miles outside Lockerbie (heading from the Lochmaben side).
Its a big cemetery so good luck Jamjar.
Jak ;D
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Hi Kojak,
If you mean the Dryfesdale cemetery, where the plane crash memorial is, I checked it on Saturday and couldn't find her there. I even looked on the computer in the site office.
This lady's father Robert Shankland was an innkeeper in the High St on the '41 census. He was 65. So, I'm guessing he will be buried in the CofS churchyard. Hopefully, his daughter went in with him.
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar,
I can have a look in the Lockerbie Library which has a book on the old Dryfesdale MI's if you like...
In the meantime, here is a map of Brooklands - Ravenshill, Lockerbie.
Regards,
Jak ;D
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Well, well you're a star. ;)
In giving me Brooklands, you've given me Kirkmichael Grove - now known as The Grove on the map.
Now I even think I know where it may be.
Yes, it would be good if you could check Dryfesdale MIs, ta.
Meanwhile, I have found Robert Shankland's death. He was the proprietor of the Commercial Inn, Lockarbie and Margaret's father. He died 27 - 10 - 1844. If we find him, I think we'll find her.
Also, her mother was Margaret, nee McGaffie. No death on Scots people, so she likely died pre 1855.
I'm off to Dumfries Library to check Valuation rolls. I can't find any reference to the Commercial Inn, on the net. I do wonder if it still exists, but has a change of name. Do you know of any pubs on High St?
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar,
I have had some success!
In the southern section of the old Dryfesdale churchyard (the one in middle of Lockerbie), Robert Shankland (d. 27 October 1844 aged 69) is buried alongside his spouse Margaret McGaffie (d. 8 April 1847 aged 66). Also buried in same lair are their son Thomas Shankland (d. 27 February 1849 aged 44) and his wife Mary Hutton (d. 19 June 1859 aged 54).
I had a look through the MIs and couldnt find any reference for Margaret Little (nee Shankland) the above Robert and Maragret's daughter.
I did however find that she died on 12 November 1892 aged 82 (as you know). There appears to be a newspaper article about her death in the Dumfries and Galloway Standard. The Ewart should have the microfische extract of the newspaper. Perhaps the article states where she was buried.
The Microfische reader was in use today, so alas, I cant confirm.
Good look hunting
Jak ;D
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Thanks for looking Kojak.
I was at the churchyard, today. I found both headstones.
Thanks to your map I have been able to take a photo of Kirkmichael Grove, also. It is now called The Grove.
Only thing I haven't found is Commercial Inn, Lockerbie. It is looking promising, though, as I have had an email from a woman who says she is part of the larger Shankland family.
Thanks again, Kojak ;D
Jamjar
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Wonderful news!
I have enquired through someone I know who has a lot of old photographs of Lockerbie High Street to see where the Old Commercial inn was located.
From speaking with some locals I am informed it could well have been up near where the Town Hall is today (on the corner of the High Street and Bridge Street), but there must be some old photographs.
One thought I had earlier...have you looked through the photographic archives in the Ewart? The cabinets behind where the two archivists sit in the reference section along from the microfische readers are full of old photographs.
Maybe worth a look...
Best wishes,
Jak :D
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Ooo, no I didn't know about the photos. I'll be looking tomorrow. :D
I'll be in Lockerbie on Friday, so will check the library there, also.
I saw two little pubs, today. I did wonder if they were the inn with a new name. Both were on that part of the High St. Town Planning should know.
Thanks, Kojak.
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar,
I'd suggest asking at the Ewart if you go back tomorrow.
They the font of all wisdom.
Jak ;D
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Hi Jamjar,
I have asked around and the most likely site of the old Commercial Inn is considered to be where the currently vacant former chemist/newsagent is today, located opposite the Tower Fish bar at the Cross on Lockerbie's High Street.
I have attached two images. The first is a photograph of the building taken in 1890. The sketch drawing is of the same site from pre 1848. In this sketch, I believe I can identify the word "Inn" on the signage board and the first word could well be commercial.
See what you think...
Ian Henderson. the local solicitor who has retired I think, but still has an office on the High Street has the original painting in the upstairs rooms, and he may well be able to assist you. If you were to contact their office, they may be able to assist. On your behalf, I have telephoned their office to see if the paintings are still there, and they are!
The Ewart Library may well have the same images in their archives. It's definitely worth a look.
Hope you find it.
Jak :D
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Thanks Kojak, :)
Yes, it looks like the word Inn to me.
Funny you should mention Mr Henderson. I was in a shop near John Jardine's, on Saturday. The lady told me to speak to Mr. Henderson, as she said he would possibly recall the Jardine painters, of Main St., to whom I am related. I have his phone number.
I'll go to the office, when I'm in Lockerbie, on Friday.
Jamjar
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Morning Kojak,
I have found the location of the Commercial. It was on one of those very large maps, which they have in the library. It was situated opposite the Church of Scotland. About where there is now a shop selling flowers out the front. I was actually parked outside the place, last weekend.
So, that's it on this branch.
I'm now off on a new search: Jardine/Irving/Carruthers. Bet, I'll still need your help. ???
Jamjar
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Wonderful find Jamjar.
The Ewart has a great range of archives. I looked at the old maps a while back and it took ages to get them unrolled.
No problems with assisting you on next lot of queries...
Jak ;D
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Hi, Kojak
Yes, resources here are amazing. We have nothing like it in Australia. :'( Then again, we don't have much of a history in our parts.
The maps, I have seen, are in big boxes and are hanging up.
The sun is shining! :D Will it last the day? ???
Jamjar
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Jamjar,
There are more maps in the vault (you need to ask for them).
From memory, they are a bit later but have much more definition (i.e of a bigger scale).
The all come rolled up.
Today it will be mostly sunny an warm (August is usually warmest month in Dumfriesshire).
Jak 8)
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Hello Jamjar
Saw your information on Margaret Shankland. Her father Robert and my direct ancestor Duncan were brothers but there was a big age gap. I know exactly where the Grove is and coincidentally at one point in time, on the other side of my family, my grandmother's cousin John Rithet lived in it after he retired from Pennersaughs Farm
Farish
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Hi Farish,
It's a lovely looking place. When standing out the front it's easy to imagine our relatives coming and going.
I'm not of Margaret's line, really. She remarried and her second husband is my connection.
J.
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Hi Farish,
Noted your entry.
My family tree contains many Rithets from Applegarth.
Please contact me to share information.