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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Glennells on Saturday 04 August 07 21:35 BST (UK)
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Looking for George Telfer Minto in the Northumberland district, born 1853. Also as I am in Scotland, how do I get into the official English records?
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Hi Glennells,
On Free BMD:
Birth
George Telfer Minto Mar Q 1853 vol10b pg206 Bellingham, Northumberland
FreeBMD is a fantastic resource http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
You can access all the births, deaths & marriages post 1837 for England and Wales then apply to the GRO for the certificate using the index reference number (ie the info I have typed up above)
Hope this helps :)
Jenny
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Oh, the index online is not complete (almost though!) but you can look at the scanned pages also, so it beats going to the library or FHS to look at the microfiche ;)
Jenny
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Hi Glennells
1861
there is this family
Thomas Minto head mar 40 cellerman Scotland
Helen " wife mar 41 "
George " son u/m 8 scholar Northumberland Elsdon
Jemmima " dau u/m 18 Scotland
Mary " dau u/m 9 scholar Northumberland Elsdon
living at Norfolk Street, Tynemouth, Northumberland
Rg9/ 3841
folio 17
page 28 & 29
ricky
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Thanks Jen but it tells me the page is not available will try again.
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1881
A Possible
George Minto head mar 28 engine fitter Northumberland Nth Shields
Jane " wife mar 28 " "
living at 93 Norfolk Street, Tynemouth, Northumberland
Rg11/ 5080
folio 20
page 34
ricky
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Hey Glennells,
Sorry not sure what happened with the link, tried it myself and it did the same thing but if I copy and paste it into my address bar it works....go figure ::)
Hope you get it working!
Jenny
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This is the link to the GRO too for ordering certificates online, hopefully you have more luck with it :)
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Jenny
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Thanks for that Jen. Can I not get the same as the Scottish side and just look up the info and documents instead of having to order each certificate??
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Hi Glennells
This thread explains the differences:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,247835.0.html
Also, I think Ricky has found them for you in the censuses, above :)
Gadget
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Thanks for the replies. I don't think that is the George I'm looking for Ricky. His parents were George and Mary Telfer. I think they lived in Bellingham, Northumberland and in his marriage certificate he states his father was a gamekeeper. I am still trying to find my way around the English way of looking for ancestors.
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Hi Glennels
1891 Is this him
George Telfer Minto head mar 39 iron clerk Northumberland
Lillias? " wife mar 34 Abbotshall, Leek Town
Elizabeth JG " dau u/m 9 scholar St Marys Harwick
Robert " son u/m 6 scholar Anderson Glasgow
George T Mck " son u/m 11 months "
Thomas Simpson boarder 58 carpenter ???
living at 65 Yorkhill Street, Glasgow Barony, Lanarkshire
ricky
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I am still trying to find my way around the English way of looking for ancestors.
Hi glennells
I have mainly Scottish, English and Welsh ancestors and have come to grips with the different systems. What is the problem you have with 'the English way'. Maybe I - and many others on Roots - can help.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi Glennels,
I too have English, Scottish and Welsh ancestors so if I can be of any assistance let me know.
I think the 1891 census Ricky has found is him, as when I relooked at his birth reg on FreeBMD it came up with 2 George Minto's born in 1853 same quarter and same ref no ::)
Minto George MacCree Bellingham 10b 206
Minto George Telfer Bellingham 10b 206
So from the 1891 census it looks like he named his son George Telfer MacCree Minto?? Or a version of it ;)
I wonder what the certificate says? And no you can't look at the details without ordering the certificate. You can make sure it is him before you order it and pay completely by having them check say the fathers name or mothers name but you pay extra. I agree I love Scottish research it is so much quicker and easier, but English research is a challenge and thus maybe more rewarding ;D
Jenny
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That's him Ricky, thanks for that. It is the 11month old son George I am interested in. I didn't know he had McKinlay in his name, being his mother's maiden name.
Gadget the problem I have is having to order each certificate, I just wondered if there is a simpler way as in the official government site in Scotland.
Helen
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Hi Glennells,
I reckon this is him in 1861 too:
Wolflee (Glen), Southdean, Roxburghshire
Robert Minto Head M 42yrs Gamekeeper b. Jedburgh, Rox
Mary Minto Wife M 38yrs b. Southdean, Rox
George Minto Son 8yrs Scholar b. England
Euphemia Minto Dau 5yrs Scholar b. Southdean, Rox
Helen Minto Dau 2yrs b. Southdean, Rox
So perhaps his parents were Robert Minto and Mary Telfer??
Jenny
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If anyone can help me get sight of the census showing where he lived in Bellingham. As I said earlier, has father was a gamekeeper, so i would be interested in knowing where. I don't know where the name McCree came from. Jenny. That is going send me on another trail I think.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Helen
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Hi Glennels
That might be a problem as on the 1851 census
Robert Minto head mar 33 toll tacksman Jedburgh Roxborough
Mary " wife mar 28 Southdean "
Euphemia Telfer sis/in/law 17 farm lab " "
living at Teviot Bridge, Teviot Toll DR, Roxburghshire
ricky
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Yes Jenny that is where I became confused. I found Robert, gamekeeper also. It seems George and Robert done the same job and both married Mary Telfers. I began to wonder if George changed his christian name. It is on George jnrs' marriage certificate that his father was George. I failed to find a Marriage certificate for Geroge Snr and Mary Telfer, so they must have married in England.
Helen
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Hi Helen,
My advice would be to see what the birth certificate says, as maybe just maybe George put down the wrong name for his father on his marriage certificate. It happens a lot surprisingly, or maybe the chap writing it down had a momentary lapse in concentration and had George on the brain ::)
Good luck
Jenny
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Hi Helen,
Just so you have all the information. I chased the Robert/Mary couple through the census and George too.
1871 - Wolflee Lodge, Southdean, Roxburghshire
Robert Minto Head M 52yrs Gamekeeper b. Jedburgh, Rox
Mary Minto Wife M 47yrs b. Southdean, Rox
Euphemia Minto Dau 15yrs Pupil Teacher b. Southdean, Rox
Ellen H Minto Dau 12yrs Scholar b. Southdean, Rox
Mary L E Minto Dau 9yrs Scholar b. Southdean, Rox
Jessie H Minto Dau 6yrs Scholar b. Southdean, Rox
1871 - 2 Brougham Place, Hawick, Roxburghshire
Mary Ann Oliver & children
George Minto Lodger 18yrs S Commercial Clerk b. England
(I could not find any other George's to fit in England or Scotland)
1881 - Wolflee Lodge, Southdean, Roxburghshire
Robert Minto Head M 63yrs Gamekeeper b. Jedburgh, Rox
Mary Minto Wife M 58yrs Gamekeeper's wife b. Southdean, Rox
Mary Minto Dau S 19yrs Nurse (Domestic Servant) Unemployed b. Southdean, Rox
Jessie Minto Dau S 16yrs General Domestic Servant b. Southdean, Rox
1881 - 3 Minto Place, Hawick, Roxburghshire
George Minto Head M 28yrs Painter's clerk b. England
Lillias Minto Wife M 28yrs b. Kirkaldy, Fife
1891 - Wolflee Lodge, Southdean, Roxburghshire
Robert Minto Head W 73yrs Gamekeeper b. Jedburgh, Rox
Mary Lena Elder GDau 12yrs Scholar b. England
So that fits in with the info that Ricky found for you regards the 1891 census. So to me it looks like George Minto who married Lillias (McKinlay) (I assume this is the marriage you have) is indeed the son of Robert Minto and Mary Telfer. Of course nothing is certain and maybe Mary had a fling with a George Minto before marrying Robert...who knows ::)
The birth cert will help out a great deal. Also could not find George and Lillias in 1901, do you know what happened to them? Or where they may be?
Jenny
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For 1901 Scotland Census look at name of George Minta with relevant birth details.( Maybe error in spelling) although this person is on their own I think it is the same one as George Telfer Minto if you look at occupation etc. and location (Glasgow)
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Thanks Sedgwick
I didn't think of chasing other spellings. It has been known to be spelled as Mintow before so I will try that also. Do you know what age This George Minta is? I think George Telfer Minto ended up on his own, but I have failed to trace his son George Telfer McKinlay Minto who would be about 11 years old in 1901. There is a gap between that time and WW1, which is in the family recollection.
Helen
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The George Minta I found was by putting in the relevant birth details for George Telfer Minto, so you could do that. I use Ancestry.co.uk for all the basic work (as they don't have images for Scottish records) and then Scotlandspeople for the copy documents.
My search is based on the son Robert Minto (G T Minto's other son) and yes it all seems rather ambiguous. I may just put all the info in on my family tree and just leave a question mark beyond G T Minto's parentage. A shame but something may become apparent in the future.
I still think the England Census of 1851 in Northumberland (Troughend) of a George Minto(72) and his wife Helen who live at Whitelee Gate as Inn keepers with sons Thomas and a George(26) etc could be key.
Hope this is of some help.
Sedgwick
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Hi Sedgewick
I got a copy of George T Minto's birth certificate and he was born in Bellingham at the Whitelee Toll inn.
His father was Robert and Mother Mary Telfer both ended up staying at Wolflee where Robert was Gamekeeper.
George T went on to marry Lily Mckinlay and they had 3 children, Elizabeth, Robert born in Anderson in Glasgow in 1885 February 21st and George T McK. You can see them in the 1891 cencus. In the 1901 George T is a widower and no kids. In 1901 Elizabeth would have been 18, Robert 16 and George 11. I didn't find out what became of the family as George is living on his own.
If it is Robert junior you are following up I can let you have photos if you want them. What relation would you be to Robert? George Telfer McKinlay Minto was my husband's father.
Helen
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Many thanks for that. I have the info already that you offer except photos of Robert. Robert was my grandfather on my dad's side. I remember him being a slight man with a big moustache! Unfortunately my Dad has passed away now and am unable to get any more info except certificates.
Anyway hope you have more luck with your quest.
Sedgwick
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Hi Sedgwick
So it seems you are my late husband's half cousin. Here is a photo of Robert and Mary outside Wolflee Lodge With George T, Lily young Elizabeth and Robert. It appears George T McK isn't born yet so the pic will date around 1889/90. Helen