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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: buddie on Wednesday 01 August 07 15:45 BST (UK)
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looking for info on Cowden and Tait weavers i Paisley
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good afternoon buddie fae paisley
big welcome to roots chat.
is cowden and tate a trade name or are we taking two diferent families that are linked through marriage?
what year are we talking? so we can find them on the censuses for you?
trying to help
Joe
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hi pal,
are we talking
william cowden who married isabella tait 18/4/1828 paisley?
trying to help
Joe
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Yes they,re my grt. grt. grandparents. i know they were married by the Rev. Walter Blair of the Gaelic Church
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hi buddie,
what sort of info are you after?
census returns?
births marriages deaths?
Joe
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Hi Joe trying to find out their parents and what the connection is with the Gaelic Church, also the Isabella has been handed down through the family, and I,m going to be a grannie for the first tme, and if it is a wee girl Isabella will be her second name.
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Hi buddie,
William Cowden married Isabella Tait 18 April 1828 Abbey (Paisley) and
Daughter Margaret Couden (sic) born 09 Oct 1855 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew.
Here is 1851 census at 3 Neilson Street Paisley,
William Cowden 45 b 1806 Paisley Hand Loom Weaver
Isabella Cowden 33 b 1818 Paisley Hand Loom Weaver
Jean Cowden 19 b 1832 Paisley Hand Loom Weaver’s Asst
Agnes Cowden 15 b 1836 Paisley Hand Loom Weaver’s Asst
James Cowden 11 b 1840 Paisley
William Cowden 2 b 1849 Paisley
Thomas Cowden 2 months 1851 Paisley
And 4 lodgers
Isabella’s age worries me, married at 10, giving birth at 14
I checked on SP, and only Isabella Tait born in Renfrew, was 10 Sep 1812 in Port Glasgow, that would make her 16 at wedding. Have you any proof of ages or where born.
Cannot see any connection with Gaelic Church yet.
Tom
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Hi Tom Isabella,s age must be wrong as william and her were married in 1828 by Rev. Walter Blair of the Gaelic Church. Her father,s name was John, I found a John tait married to a Mary Purdon, but don,t know if it is the same family. Isabella
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The best option would be to go on to Scotlands People which is unfortunately a pay per view site (£6 for 30 credits) and seek Isabella's Death record which should be able to provide her parents details. Assuming of course that she died after 1855
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Have done that her father,s name is john but it doesn.t give her mothers name. Thanks for your help ,Isabella
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Pity about the death record ...
In 1861 the family are listed as living at 83 Canal Street Paisley
Isabella is listed as age 42 and the head of the household with her is son James aged 20, son William aged 8 and son Thomas aged 6. Also listed with her is Euphemia mcfarlane aged 6 listed as a niece.
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I'm also interested in the Cowden family of Paisley's Abbey parish. I have a Thomas Cowden, weaver who m. Elisabeth Gil(l)christ on 26 Sept 1818. Their children, all bap. in that parish, were Thos., Wm.; and two called Elisabeth [IF Elisabeth Gilchrist and Elisabeth Gillchrist are one and the same].
Any relation?
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My william was married to Isabella Tait who's father was a weaver. I noticed that the Cowdens I found have all the same names. Could be that William and Thomas were brothers. My Great Granda was called Thomas.An address I have was Neilston STreet, now called Neilston Road.
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Elbe,
does your Thomas Cowden have any siblings. I have Margaret Cowden , Mary Cowden , John Cowden , & Janet Cowden born in the late 1700's in Paisley.
Their parents were William Cowden & Catharine Jack
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Sorry davieboy, I haven't identified Thomas' siblings or parents yet. Thomas and Elisabeth married on 26 September 1818 if that helps. Your Wm. is a possibility because that name recurrs in later generations.
Identifying the correct family is a challenge :-\
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hi elbe,
wonder if this is of any help?
1841 census- 64 canal street, paisley
thomas...age 66...silk weaver
elizabeth...age 40
elizabeth...age 20
william...age 18...silk weaver
thomas...age 16...silk weaver
john...age 14
janet...age 12
looks like william married margaret mackay 15/12/1849 paisley
looks like thomas married mary leitch 18/5/1850 paisley
looks like john married margaret fulton 18/8/1853 paisley
looks like janet married walter knox2/10/1857 paisley
1851 census- 28 thread street, paisley
thomas...age 58...weaver
elizabeth...age 50
john...age 25...weaver
janet...age 22...mill worker
1851 census- 40 george street, paisley
william mckay...age 49...weaver
william cowden...son-in-law...age 28...weaver
margaret cowden...age 29
thomas cowden...age 4 months
1851 census- 64 canal street, paisley
thomas...age 27...weaver
mary...age 25
lezzie...age 1 month
1861 census- 75 canal street, paisley
john...age 35...weaver
margaret...age 34
elizabeth...age 7
janet...age 3
margaret...age 1
1861 census- 16 sir michael street, paisley
thomas...age 38...steam loom tenter
mary...age 36
jess...age 10
thomas...age 8
elizabeth...age 3
john...age 1
1861 census- 142 george street, paisley
william...age 40...shawl maker
margaret...age 36
thomas...age 10
william...age 8
john...age 6
hugh...age 4
mary...age 1
1861 census- 11 burnside street, milton, glasgow
walter knox...age 44...blacksmith
janet...age 31
george...age 13...message boy
james...age 1
elizabeth gilchrist...age 64...visitor
1871 census- 80 st james road, glasgow
walter...age 54...drapery agent
janet...age 40
walter...age 8
elizabeth gilchrist...mother-in-law...age 78
1881 census- 80 st james road, glasgow
walter...age 64...draper
janet...age 52
walter...age 19...stationer
1881 census- 109 south wellington st, glasgow
thomas...age 57...foreman
mary...age 55
thomas...age 29...time keeper
elizabeth...age 23...weaver
john...age 21...draughtsman
alexander...age 18...commercial clerk
james...age 14...pupil teacher
1881 census- 75 canal street, paisley
john...age 55...weaver
margaret...age 56
elizabeth...age 27...mill worker
janet...age 24...mill worker
margaret...age 21...mill worker
john...age 18...shoe maker
james...age 11
1881 census- 141 george street, paisley
william...age 60...weaver
margaret...age 57
john...age 26...commerical clerk
hugh...age 23...engineer(turner
1891 census- 141 george street, paisley
william...age 70...retired weaver
margaret...age 66
john...age 36...clerk
1891 census- 22 montgomery street, glasgow
walter knox...age 74...blacksmith
janet...age 62
1891 census- 75 canal street, paisley
john...age 66...weaver
margaret...age 64
elizabeth...age 36...mill worker
margaret...age 31...mill worker
james...age 21...clerk
1891 census- 21 south wellington street, glasgow
mary...age 65
elizabeth...age 33...tailoress
1901 census- 141 george street, paisley
william...age 80...retired weaver
1901 census- 75 canal street, paisley
john...age 76...weaver
margaret...age 74
margaret...age 40...mill worker
james...age 30...clerk
as a wee note, thomas had a son called john born 17/9/1855, must be worth a look see on the sp website.
william also had a son john born 16/3/1855, also worth a look see
Joe
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Joe, what a wonderful piece of research you've done! I don't have this experience and knowledge here because it's been Australian government policy since Federation to destroy census records.
First a really ignorant question: in Scotland, were married women listed in the census by their natal names (see Elizabeth GILCHRIST at Janet's place from 1861)? Or maybe some used their husband's surname and others didn't?
Elisabeth, dau. of Thos and Eliz. married William Clingan, a stonemason, in September 1850, so perhaps they are still in Paisley somewhere in 1851. In 1852 their son, Wm, was born in Glasgow and in November 1853 the three of them emigrated to Australia.
So, perhaps I should start looking for Thomas (the father's) death after the 1851 census and his wife's death after the 1871 census.
The spread of jobs is interesting: Thomas and Mary's family appeared to be the most determined to move away from weaving!
Again, thanks Joe!
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hi pal,
sometimes you find that wife's take up their maiden names when their husbands die, or freely give their maiden names.
1851 census- 134 sauchiehall street, glasgow
william clingan...age 27...mason...born ireland
elizabeth...age 26
Joe
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Thanks so much for answering my questions! Will be back on line end next week. :D
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Hi Elbe,
Can I be of help re Clingan's in Scotland. My research is the Scottish Clingans, originally from KPD, KKD who spread out to various parts including Glasgow. They were originally farmer/stone masons. William is a family name. Also have descendants in the weaving trade who all appear to have ended up in Canada (see last postings).
However, throughout I keep on coming across the Irish Clingan's, a lot ending up in either Glasgow or Liverpool and then later moving on to Aus and elsewhere. To my knowledge there are at least seven or eight serious Irish Clingan researchers that I am in contact with and have helped along the way. Can think of at least three in Australia who would like to speak to you if you are researching Irish Clingan's. If you drop me a line I will put you in contact with them. They have already linked Irish Clingan's in I believe Canada, USA, and Australia.
Regards
Ian Clingan
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Hi Elbe,
Re my last post. One of the Irish researchers has already identified themselves as being a descendant of the Gilchrist/Cowden/Clingan line that you speak of and wishes to make contact. Contact is also in Aus.
Regards
Ian Clingan
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Hi do you think the Cowdens come from the one family, as it is not such a common name. I know my grannie was called Auntie Bella by quite a few, her father was thomas.
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Hi Buddie,
My guess it is like the Clingan's, small but well spread and most connected in some way.
The researcher who is connected to those listed by joekar in an earlier post has most of her connections in the Abbey area.
Are you interested in contacting the researcher if so drop me a line.
There are Isabella's and Thomas's in the line
Regards
Ian
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Thanks Ian my email is (*)
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Hi Buddy
Info passed. Might take a couple of days as I know researcher is busy on their farm with fire prevention work. Know she will contact you though.
Regards
Ian
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Hi Ian: We have had contact on the Clingan branch before (I'm also a member of the US-centred Clingan group elsewhere - I keep hoping they'll get their research back to the UK soon ::) ).Thanks again for your offer of help re the Scottish Clingan connection - as yet my Wm seems to have transited Scotland briefly, if you like, before migrating to AUS - the attraction of the gold rush I think!
In terms of the researchers you refer to, if you mean Joy, she certainly keeps a keen eye on my lines ;D.
For the moment I'm trying to learn more about the Cowden family. I'm curious about the census details - is is significant that weavers should be listed as silk weaver, weaver, hand loom weaver? Or is this just the vagaries of each enumerator?
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Hi Elbe,
Glad to hear from you.
I take it when you refer to US centred group you mean Yahoo - Clingan's? It sure is US centred :-)
Yep Joy is one of them and it is her line that is involved, however, there are a couple of others (Irish Clingan's) who are connected to Joys lot but have connections with Canada and USA.
Don't know if you have checked, but some of my lot who were weavers all ended up in Toronto, Canada working as weavers in the large carpet factory so they have moved from weaving cloth to carpets, so I presume a weaver is a weaver.
If I can help just shout, and needles to say if Joy is about she will have been in touch previously and you will have her e-mail address :-))))
Regards
Ian
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Re Running Bears entry with all the hard work re census information on the Cowden family. I have searched SP for the 1851 census for Thomas Cowden age 58 and getting nothing. Also the 1871 census for Elizabeth Gilchrist, again nothing. Tried putting the other names and still nothing. Do SP have a lot of missing forms or am I just missing something.
Liz
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Listers
This is a follow up and update.
First - I agree that Thomas Cowden and Elisabeth Gilchrist are challenging to find on SP. Two days ago (on SP) I found Elisabeth (indexed as Cowden) died on 2 Aug 1874 at 80 St James Rd, Glasgow - this is the address of her daughter, Janet (Knox), and, as it is close to the Necropolis, I guess this is where Elisabeth was buried. I double checked before I wrote this and could only find it again by checking my index of searches (guess I must have fluked it the first time) ::)
Elisabeth's record states she was the widow of Thomas, weaver {but type illegible - not silk or cotton or hand loom - what other sort was there?}; she was the daugher of William Gilchrist, silk weaver, and Elizabeth {surname illegible, but short name like Reid or Wild}. I haven't been able to go further back (no bap. or m.). However Sp gives a record of the m. of Thomas Cowden and Elisabeth Gilchrist for 26 Oct 1818 at Paisley Abbey.
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.. and continuing ..
On SP, I have found 5 x Thomas Cowden (various spellings) to 3 sets of parents in the period 1770-95. The parents might be William Couden and Katherine Jack (referred to in an earlier post); or Brodie Cowdon and Margaret Ewing. Each had two sons bap. in Paisley Abbey, and each resided in Eaglesham, according to LDS. I have assmed the first sons to each coupl d. in infancy. SP gives 21 Feb 1790 and 11 Jan 1795 respectively as bap. dates for the later sons called Thomas. The third set of parents bap. their son 21 Sep 1786, but at Paisely Low Church.
I would have to say there appears to be no consistent use of the (highland) naming pattern, so... still contemplating ...
Hope this is of use to others
elbe
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Could SKS help with a SP death interpretaion.
A couple of days again I queried SP for the death or burial record of Thomas Cowden (Paisley weaver, husband of Elisabeth Gilchrist). The period I was searching straddles OPR-statutory reporting, so I tried both. I fould just one record: 29 Nov 1851 for Paisley Abbey. The thing is, it says Thomas Cowden but in the right hand side says 2 'still born sons'. Surely this is not Thomas plus two? Do you think the record just for the two boys, who were unnamed, and the the words Thomas Cowden just identifes the father?
Thanks in advance
elbe
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Hi Elbe
Am assuming you're referring to mortcoloth records. If so yes is most likely is 2 boys and your Thomas named as father. Mortcloth records vary so much in format hard to be 100% without seeing it but being familiar with those from Abbey parish have seen would say from others have seen Thomas is father rather than deceased.
best wishes
Ann :)