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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 07:44 BST (UK)

Title: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 07:44 BST (UK)
Hi

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to look up a birth for me.  Her name is Susannah Evans White (although her marriage and death cert say Susie Evans White both of which I have).  Father William White and Mother Margaret Coppock.  Born 1844-1846 but I have an unconfirmed date of 9 May 1845.  Other children for this couple I can find on NSW BMD but not Susie.  Place of birth Sydney (cited on both marriage and death cert.), Newtown? (hard to read), Sydney cited on Marriage cert.

The other children are: William M White 1835, Maria L White 1837, Robert E White 1839, John C White 1842.

I have attached snippet of writing so you can check the place of birth for yourself (bottom is Susie).

I would dearly appreciate any help. 

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: Robert Coble on Monday 30 July 07 07:49 BST (UK)
Hi

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to look up a birth for me.  Her name is Susannah Evans White (although her marriage and death cert say Susie Evans White both of which I have).  Father William White and Mother Margaret Coppock.  Born 1844-1846 but I have an unconfirmed date of 9 May 1845.  Other children for this couple I can find on NSW BMD but not Susie.  Place of birth Sydney (cited on both marriage and death cert.), Newtown? (hard to read), Sydney cited on Marriage cert.

The other children are: William M White 1835, Maria L White 1837, Robert E White 1839, John C White 1842.

I have attached snippet of writing so you can check the place of birth for yourself (bottom is Susie).

I would dearly appreciate any help. 

Regards Kate

Hi Kate,
It say Newtown Sydney there and the other one is Ballarat Victoria there but can you put up the whole thing there so we can read it better please and try and help you with your search on this person there.

Ozybob.
Sydney
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 07:55 BST (UK)
Hi Ozybob

Am I allowed to post the whole cert. on here?  I will do so if allowed.

Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: cando on Monday 30 July 07 07:57 BST (UK)
Hi Kate

I read it as Newtown, Sydney, NSWales  and the top entry as Trewalla Station, Ballarat  Victoria.

Kate the image can be copied and enlarged by the posters.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: Robert Coble on Monday 30 July 07 08:00 BST (UK)
hi kate,
yes you can as long as it not living person there
as i am having some problem there finding the marriage to her.

  3171/1878      WOOD      WILLIAM      WHITE      SUSANNAH E      GOULBURN this is the only marriage I can find there

death:
4877/1909      WOOD      SUSANNAH E      CHARLES      JANE E      CAMDEN 

birth:
 V18581400 155/1858      WHITE      SUSANNAH E      JOHN      SUSAN
Not sure if I am right there but this it what I find on a Susannah E White there
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 08:05 BST (UK)
Great, Thanks Cando

The reason for your not finding the marriage cert. is its a Vic Cert. (sorry forgot to mention that) :-[  I have attached cert. below.  Also can anyone read Susie's usual place of residence??

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 30 July 07 08:18 BST (UK)
Hello there

it looks like Cropper's Creek  or Cooper's Creek.

regards Jenn
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 30 July 07 08:22 BST (UK)
Hello there

it looks like Cropper's Creek  or Cooper's Creek for their current address but her usual place is so hard to read but would have to say her place of birth is Newtown.

regards Jenn
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: cando on Monday 30 July 07 08:23 BST (UK)
Hi Jenn

I think the column with Croppin Creek, Myrtleford is the usual place of residence at time of marriage.

I have searched using all sorts of names and variations on the nsw indexes - but the birth is before civil reg in 1855 - from memory - and some days it isn't what it should be ;D ;D

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 09:18 BST (UK)
Hi

Thanks to all, I'm sorry to be a pain but I'm also having trouble with the column next to this, the place is in NSW but I can't make the place out at all.  Sorry it's been that long since I've looked at the certificate that I forgot how much trouble I had making anything out. ???

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: trish251 on Monday 30 July 07 09:35 BST (UK)
Hi Kate

Have to agree with Cando - the birth was before civil registration, so you are only going to find  baptism records (if anything).  There is an explanation on the bdm site re early records (or lack thereof)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/celebrate/church.html

There are a number of baptisms 1835-1842 on the site that could be your family - are these the siblings of Susie? . Checking on the AVRI I can get the church for these Baptisms but they are from MANY different locations - both RC and C of E. (e.g. William M 1835 is Sydney, St James C of E; William 1836 is maitland, Roman catholic)  If you can tell me which ones are the siblings of your Susie, I will give you the church of baptism which may (or may not) be of some assistance

Trish

PS: On a completely different tack, my gg grandmother was married in Myrtleford 1860 & my g gm was born there in 1862 & married there in 1887 - they may have been neighbours with your family  :)  :)
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: trish251 on Monday 30 July 07 09:41 BST (UK)
I'm having trouble with the NSW town as well - but extra interest to me are the parents of the groom - the mother being (I think) Jane Boyd - my family were Boyds - we may be distantly related  :D  :D - I will check for a Jane

Trish
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 09:49 BST (UK)
Hi Trish

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.  Got all the info on the Little's if you need anything.  I've got Jane Boyd's death cert. if you want a copy for your info.

About the Siblings of Susie, I think the William M is a definite as her brother was WIlliam Mottram born sydney 1835.  THey were Presbyterian/C of E so I doubt they would have any Catholic christenings. 

Maria Louise born Apr 1837 south creek windsor
Robert Edward 1839 sydney
John Coppock 1842 muswellbrook

Not sure on the reliability of the info but so far everything else I have to do with these people checks out OK.

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 30 July 07 10:27 BST (UK)
Hello  there
I shall  hazard a guess and say Merriwa, NSW . is her usual place of residence.  Also  note one of the witness has the surname of White.  the other is Peter Brian Wallace

regards Jenn
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: cando on Monday 30 July 07 10:40 BST (UK)
Hi Kate

I also read it as Merriwa, NSW.....and  the witness is John Coppock White.

Kate how wonderful to have a link with Trish's family. 

Cheers
cando
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: maidmarianoops on Monday 30 July 07 10:43 BST (UK)
did she or family return to england


1881 census uk
John White born norfolk 67 
Susannah E. White 67  born australia 1814
just a thought
sylvia
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 30 July 07 10:46 BST (UK)
Hello there Sylvia
her birth year is around 1846 and she marries John Little in 1870 in victoria
 so probably rules her out of the 1881 census
regards Jenn
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 10:59 BST (UK)
Hi

Thanks so much, I agree Merriwa seems the likely town.  She must of been living with one of her siblings as her parents were both long deceased by 1870, mmmm........ interesting.

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: trish251 on Monday 30 July 07 11:35 BST (UK)

Kate how wonderful to have a link with Trish's family. 

Cheers
cando

Sadly' not the same family. Kate's Boyds are from Ireland & mine from Scotland - they were probably the same family a few hundred years earlier  :)  :) - I keep hoping to find my 4th cousins on RC one day

Meanwhile, these are the churches listed

William M White 1835 V1835464 23A Sydney, St James C of E
Maria L White 1837 V1837465 23A Sydney, St James C of E
Robert E White 1839 V1839 467 23A Sydney, St James C of E
John C White 1842 V1842 1922 26A Althorpe;Brougham; Invermein; Rowan C of E

Sorry there is no sign of Susie. It may be possible to find which C of E church would be closest to Newtown & see what happened to the records.

Trish
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Monday 30 July 07 11:44 BST (UK)
Thanks so much Trish, this information is just fantastic.  Poor Susie, missing in action, I'll look into parishes in Sydney near Newtown.

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 30 July 07 11:53 BST (UK)
Hello  there

I have a question please, where did the parents marry? I am wondering if it is possible she was born overseas?

regards Jenn
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: trish251 on Monday 30 July 07 13:15 BST (UK)
Hi Jenn

The siblings were born before Susie, so probably unlikely. I think it's more probable that the parish records for Susie didn't survive as the family seemed to move around.

Trish
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 30 July 07 13:24 BST (UK)
Hello  there
Trisha  I just wondered as there was no birth perhaps as we have sometimes seen she lied about her age seeing as how her siblings births are showing up and they are earlier that hers supposed birth year (am I making sense)

Also  of Note  in Victoria  John Coppock White born Sydney married Agnes Little born Victoria   in 1867 reg no 728  -just in case Kate doesn't have this

Regars jenn
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: trish251 on Monday 30 July 07 15:02 BST (UK)
Hello  there
Trisha  I just wondered as there was no birth perhaps as we have sometimes seen she lied about her age seeing as how her siblings births are showing up and they are earlier that hers supposed birth year (am I making sense)



Always  :)  -  guess she could have lied if she was older than her husband, but I would think it more likely that the baptism is lost - thus said, finding the immigration of the parents (if they were immigrants) would resolve the possibility.

Trish

(and my Boyd gg grandmother did put her age down quite a number of years when she married!)

Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Tuesday 31 July 07 00:51 BST (UK)
Hi Jenn

Thanks, I don't know if she lied, always a possiblility - her parents immigrated in 1833/34 from Manchester, Lanc.  but I have 2 children there and the rest here and she supposedly is the last child.  Her parents died when she was still young, so she would have had to live with either a sibling or the like.  It is possible of course that because her parents were not around she did not know her exact date of birth ???  It seems she travelled to Victoria with John Coppock where she met John Little (Agnes Little's older brother). 

Just a not on the immigration, I am trying to find the ship they supposedly immigrated aboard on the following forum:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,246415.0.html
And regarding her parents, on the following forum:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,246414.0.html

Yes, I've been a very busy girl, but this family has me stumped.  I have both death certificates for Susie's parents but both died before 1855 so being early church records do not really give any information that can help me. 

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: JAP on Tuesday 31 July 07 17:44 BST (UK)
There is the marriage of a Maria Louisa WHITE to a James Meadow WHITE, and births of children with parents James M WHITE & Maria L - all in Cassilis which is the next town from Merriwa.

JAP
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Wednesday 01 August 07 00:35 BST (UK)
Thanks JAP

That's sounds like the connection I was looking for, thank you.   :D.  What a shame we don't have census records to trace on like the UK.

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: Robert Coble on Wednesday 01 August 07 02:39 BST (UK)
hi Kate,

 6611/1859      WHITE      ADA A M      JAMES M      MARIA L      CASSILIS

 6750/1861      WHITE      EDITH R      JAMES M      MARIA L      CASSILIS

 7594/1864      WHITE      ARTHUR N      JAMES M      MARIA L      CASSILIS

 8292/1867      WHITE      ERNEST J      JAMES M      MARIA L      CASSILIS 

 9644/1869      WHITE      FLORENCE L      JAMES M      MARIA L      CASSILIS

 9966/1876      WHITE      NEWTON GREGORY      JAMES MEADOWS      MARIA LOUISA      CASSILIS

 12328/1880      WHITE      RUSSELL SHAWCROSS      JAMES M      MARIA LOUISE      CASSILIS

Ones born in NUNDLE:
Not sure about this lot Kate.
 13863/1868      WHITE      MARY M      JAMES      MARIA      NUNDLE

 14464/1870      WHITE      JAMES      JAMES      MARIA      NUNDLE 

 14935/1872      WHITE      WILLIAM GEORGE      JAMES      MARIA      NUNDLE

 16489/1874      WHITE      ANNA      JAMES      MARIA      NUNDLE

 17802/1877      WHITE      LENNAORD L      JAMES      MARIA      NUNDLE 

 27169/1881      WHITE      ARCHIBALD CLAUDE      JAMES      MARIA      NUNDLE



Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: JAP on Wednesday 01 August 07 08:20 BST (UK)
Hi Ozybob,

When I said a couple of posts back:
There is the marriage of a Maria Louisa WHITE to a James Meadow WHITE, and births of children with parents James M WHITE & Maria L - all in Cassilis which is the next town from Merriwa.
I didn't give the full details as they are easily looked up online.

I essentially discounted the Nundle lot for various reasons:
1. Susie Evans WHITE, on her marriage cert, gave her usual residence as Merriwa.  It was thought she had probably been living with one of her siblings so I was looking for a link to a sibling in Merriwa.  Merriwa is the next town to Cassilis (a bit over 40 km).
2. One of Louisa's siblings was Maria L WHITE, b 1837.  The 1857 Cassilis marriage was of James Meadow WHITE & Maria Louisa WHITE.  All of the Cassilis birth records consistently have father James M and mother Maria L (one with the second names fully spelled out).
3. Nundle, while in the same general area of NSW, is considerably further away from Merriwa (ca 180 km) than is Cassilis!   The nearest main town to Nundle is Tamworth (ca 50 km).
4. There is an appropriate marriage in Tamworth for the Nundle births: James WHITE m Maria MCDONALD/MACDONALD in 1865 - no middle names/initials.  There is also an appropriate first child for this couple registered in Tamworth - Frederick M 1866 - followed by the children registered in Nundle between 1868 and 1881 (all births with parents consistently just as James and Maria i.e. no middle names or initials).

The only annoying aspect is that there is not a Cassilis birth in the same year as a Nundle birth >:(

JAP 

Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Saturday 04 August 07 02:57 BST (UK)
Hi

I have been trying for the last few days to locate a church that Susie may have been christened in.  The C of E in Newtown was not finished until 1847 (too late for Susie).  The nearest would have been the same as the other children were christened at.  She may not of been christened at all but it seems strange that the other children were done and not her.   Her father died in 1846 and death was registered "Church of England Burials in the parish of St Lawrence Sydney in the county of Cumberland NSW in the year 1846".  Could be the same church?????

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: trish251 on Saturday 04 August 07 03:05 BST (UK)
Hi Kate

Not sure how communicative the C of E archives are to general queries, but I'm sure there is information on the net. I have family buried in the graveyard at St Peters, Cooks River (St Peters). Not sure when it started, but is not far from Newtown - they have a web presence - google should find it

Trish
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: katefarr on Saturday 04 August 07 03:07 BST (UK)
Thanks Trish

Will give it a go.

Regards Kate
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: maidmarianoops on Saturday 04 August 07 11:15 BST (UK)
http://www.brandis.com.au/surnames/sn2sz.htm

some White families and email addresses
sylvia
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: murrurundi on Friday 27 June 08 04:11 BST (UK)
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jhlw-514&id=I166

Susie was the cousin of my Great great grandfather John Thomas White.  The above link is the work of a distant cousin James who is descended from John Thomas' older brother James Meadows White.

Stephen
Title: Re: Look up please - birth Susannah Evans White 1845
Post by: maidmarianoops on Sunday 22 February 09 08:21 GMT (UK)
http://www.brandis.com.au/genealogy/links/index.html

sorry i have just seen that my link had failed.
but the new one should work
sylvia