RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Completed Look ups => Topic started by: Daryl_P on Sunday 12 December 04 23:22 GMT (UK)
-
Greetings Everyone.
I am new here and trying to do some long distance research on my "HONEY" ancestors of Lambourn, Berkshire. It appears from parish records that the family was in the Lambourn / Upper Lambourn area from about 1725 until the 1890s. I would really appreciate it if somebody could do a lookup and tell me what may be listed on HONEY family members in Lambourn and Upper Lambourn in the 1841 census. I will be glad to do a look up in US Census records in trade if anyone is interested.
Just as an FYI - You should find my Great-Great Grandparents John and Eliza HONEY and probably some of John's siblings. I really hope to find John's parents and / or other older relatives. Any info greatly appreciated.
Daryl.
-
Hello Daryl,
I am going to the Records Office next week and if I have time I will do your 1841 census look up for you, if not then, then the week after.
Newbie
-
Hi Daryl,
I went to the record office yesterday and did your look up for you for Honey in Lambourne.
Lambourn HO 107/22/7-8 Film 5 BRO
Upper Lambourn HO 107/22/6 Film 5 BRO
Unfortunately the 1841 Census is not indexed, Problem - Lambourn has many subsidiary Tythings in its boundaries, such as East Garston, Blagrave, Bockhampton, Eastbury, Hadley etc.
I checked just Lambourn and Upper Lambourn for you.
Ho107/22 folio 16 page 26 Township Lambourn
Mattu(could be Martha) Honey, Female, 65, born in County - y (yes)
Charlotte Honey, Female, 30, y.
Address - Newbury St.
That was all I could see.
Newbie
-
Daryl,
Just a thought do you have an address for them from a later census? I could check again?
Newbie
-
Thank you very much newbie for the effort. I should have known that my ancestors would be out of town on census day. :)
Actually I think you just proved a family connection for me. I have been trying to prove that the Martha "Stapto" Baptized in Lambourn on June 23, 1776 is the Martha Steptoe that married John Honey in Lambourn on September 22, 1803. The Martha Honey you found is my 3X Great-Grandmother and your information indicates she was born in Berkshire in 1776. ;D
Charlotte Honey is Martha's daughter. My John Honey is Charlotte's baby brother having been born about a year later.
Regarding your question about addresses... John Honey was a servant of Henry Hippisley and is found in 1851, 1871 and 1881 in the Hippisley household. I understand that Henry Hippisley lived in "Lambourn Place".
John's wife and kids were found at home in the 1851, 1871 and 1881 census years. Somebody gave me a transcription of the 1851 Lambourn census but they didn't provide the house address. I saw the 1861 census on microfilm and found John home with his wife and kids. My notes show the 1861 address as "1 Audlinge(?)" in Lambourn. Eliza in listed at 45 Goose Green in Lambourn for 1871 and again on Goose Green in 1881.
I appreciate what you were able to provide. Daryl
-
Hi Daryl,
Thank you for the information I can find the address for the 1851 from the Record Office census there is an index, once I have found that it may tell me where in "Lambourn" they were, and that may give me a clue to look for them again in the 1841, so will try again next time I go.
Newbie
-
Daryl,
I just googled Hiippisley Place Lambourn and up came this site, have you seen it?
http://www.lambourn.info/History/Lambournplace.htm
Newbie
-
Thought you might be interested in Lambourn parish
registers. They are available online (1560-1837) at the following site:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pbtyc/Den/Lambrn/Index.html
Cheers,
Carmela
-
Hi Daryl,
From Carmela's link (excellent link Carmela) I found the following Honey's
HONEY - Ann - 6635 Ref.No
HONEY - Charlotte - 11104
HONEY - Henry - 13307
HONEY - James - 12366
HONEY - James - 8403
HONEY - John - 9288
HONEY - John - 11183
HONEY - Leah - 10934
HONEY - Margaret - 6806
HONEY - Martha - 13034
HONEY - Martha - 12947
HONEY - Martha - 11602
HONEY - Robert - 6899
HONEY - Sarah - 13158
HONEY - Sarah - 12583
HONEY - Sarah - 7563
HONEY - Thomas - 12749
HONEY - Thomas - 6606
HONEY - William - 12878
HONEY - William - 7744
9288 Year:1778 Mar 6 Honey John s of Robert
11183 Year: 1808 June 12 Honey John s of John
Newbie
-
Thanks to both of you but I have been to those pages several times. The wonderful Lambourn records appeared online shortly after I had gone page by page through the same records on microfilm searching out every reference I could find to the Honey family. :o Having tried to read those records myself I greatly appreciate all the work to transcribe line records and put them online. I usually use their index instead of looking at my own notes and I have also used the online index to look at related names I didn't originally have.
The Lambourn Place page interests me because it paints Henry Hippisley in such a bad light including saying he may have murdered a servent. Nothing else I ever read says anything bad about Henry Hippisley. John Honey and at least one of his sons worked for Henry Hippisley. The son died young but I doubt it was murder.
-
Hi,
Just dug out a couple more sites from my vast collection
of Berkshire resources. If you have not seen them, you may enjoy these. One is on the Hippisleys and the other a really interesting history of Berks and it's people.
http://www.boddyparts.co.uk
http://www.berkshirehistory.com/index.html
Enjoy,
Carmela
-
Hi Daryl,
Went to the B.R.O. and found the following for you,
1851 - I checked first to find address/place
from the index I found
HO107/1686 Folios 589 -631 Lambourne,
Upper Lambourne, 635-646, Woodlands - 669 - 681 Lambourne "Honey"
Age folio
Ambrose 7 615
Charlotte 31 590
David 5 615
Eleanor 5mo 615
Eli 13 615
Eliza 38 615
Henry 14 615
James 10 615
John 70 629
John 42 630
Martha 79 590
Martha 19 719
Sarah 16 615
Septimus 2 615
William 20 604
William Honey, age 20, High St, Servant, Unmar, b Lambourne.
Head of Household = Robert Billing, Victualler.
Martha Honey, 79, Newbury St. Head, Mar'd, Almsmans Wife, b Berks Lambourne
Charlotte Honey, 31, Newbury St., daur, Unmarried. b Lambourne.
John Honey, 70, Churchyard, (previous address on page = Goose Green) in Almshouse, Gamekeeper, Wid, b Lambourne
Eliza Honey, 38, Wife, Mar, Ag.Lab, b Wilts Wanbro
Sarah 16, daur, Ag.Lab, b Lambourne
Henry 14, Son, Ag. Lab, b Lambourne
Eli 13, Son, Ag.Lab, b Lambourne
James 10, Son, Ag Lab, b Lambourne
Ambrose, Son, Scholar, b Lambourne
David, 5, Son, Scholar, b Lambourne
Septimus 2, Son, b Lambourne
Eleanor 5m, daur, b Lambourne
Address - Newbury Street, Lambourne.
I couldn't at first understand why she was a Wife and not Head, but then I found John staying somewhere else in Lambourne - at his place of work with other servants.
John Honey, 42, Labourer, Married, b Lambourne.
Address: - Lambourne Place
So now knowing they were in Lambourne, I checked the 1841 census for them (I only checked Lambourne) couldn't see them still,
then I ran out of time, will try again next time
Newbie
-
Thanks again to both Carmela and newbie for all the help. It is greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, just when I thought I had this family somewhat figured out they threw me a curve though the census records. ???
The 1803 Christening record in Lambourn shows my John Honey was son of a John and Martha Honey. Another Christening record Shows Charlotte Honey was daughter of John and Martha Honey. There is also a convenient 1803 marriage in Lambourn between John Honey and Martha Steptoe.
Based on the above I have got to assume that the Martha living with Charlotte is also mother of John. I would also assume the older John Honey who served as a gamekeeper was my John Honey's father. Why the heck is the elder John Honey listed as a widow with Martha still alive??? I also have assumed that the Elder John Honey was the John Honey Christened in Lambourn on May 06, 1778. The census record indicates the elder John was born about 1772. I am beginning to wonder if there was another John Honey in Lambourn. There is an April 1860 death record for John Honey of Lambourn. Would the death certificate name his late wife? Martha Honey apparently died in January 1853 so one way or another the John who died in 1860 was presumably a widow.
In addition to that, we now have a William Honey born about 1831 in Lambourn working as a servant. That is sounding more and more like the "family business" but I never knew this William Honey existed until now and I don't know where he fits in the family tree. Sounds like it is time for me to do some more research and start ordering death certificates. :)
-
Daryl,
Just a thought, shall I check that John aged 70 is def a Wid, I'm absolutely sure that is what it said as that is what is written in my notes, but you never know with that old handwriting, it may have been an M that looked like a W, so will check, especially as Martha is an Almsmans wife, and he is living in an Almsmans cottage?
What a conundrum!
Newbie
-
I am beginning to feel like I am taking advantage of your generosity but I certainly won't object if you have the opportunity to double check the record. It didn't even register on me that the 1851 census record says Martha was an Almsman's wife. If her husband was dead it should say widow. Sounds like John Honey Senior may not have been a widower in 1851 after all.
I will mention one more wish list item but you should feel free to tell me no if it is an unreasonable request. I have no idea what records are available in the records office but I have been trying to obtain the correct birth date for my direct ancestor Ambrose Honey. Parish records show him Christened April 14, 1844 in St. Michael's Church in Lambourn and I have him calculated from his death record as born about January 1844. I have not been able to find him in the BMD indexes for 1843, 1844 or 1845. Would there be another local record of his birth?
Thanks again for your generous help. Daryl.
-
I'm a very distant descendant of the Lambourn Hippisleys. See www.boddyparts.co.uk and click on 'A Brief History of the Hippisley Family' for more information.
I'd be interested in the census records for Henry Hippisley as I only have the info for 1851 and 1881.
Mike
-
Hi Mike. I almost feel like we are related since my ancestor worked for your ancestor for so long. Do you have any idea what may have happened to any of Henry Hippisley's servant records?
Somebody told me that my ancestor's tombstone states "In memory of John Honey died 19 march 1892 aged 83 years. For 50 years the faithful servant of Henry Hippisley Esq. of Lambourn Place and also of Eliza his wife Died September (unreadable date) 1888, aged 74 years." I also found a reference on-line for persons who obtained gamekeepers certificates that said the "Rev. H. Hippersley" appointed John Honey as a gamekeeper at the "Golding and Eastmanton" manor in 1827. I am not sure if that reference is the John above or possibly the older John (his father?) listed as a 70 year old gamekeeper in the 1851 census.
As for the census records, I will give you what I have but I don't know that it will be much help with your research.
I have not seen the 1851 census but I understand from others that John Honey was found in the 1851 census living at his place of work. I don't know if Henry Hippisley was found at home that day or not.
John Honey was found in the 1861 census at home with his wife and I don't have a record of where Henry Hippisley was.
The 1871 census shows John Honey at Lambourn Place as the Head but then says "master absent" and his occupation is shown as "servant in charge of mansion". John's son Enoch Honey age 17 is listed with him at work. Enoch apparently died in early 1876.
The 1881 census is transcribed on the familysearch.org site and shows Henry Hippisley, his family and servants including my John Honey.
by 1891 John Honey was in the almshouse and I think Henry Hippisley had already died but I am not sure.
Can you provide any more information of Henry Hippisley?
-
This is the full entry for Lambourn Place in 1851:
Lambourn Place, Berkshire
Eliza ROTH widow aged 31 Governess born Baden Baden, Germany
Catherine HIPPISLEY daughter 10 Gentleman's Daughter born Lambourn
Agness HIPPISLEY daughter 6 Gentleman's Daughter born London
Eleanor HIPPISLEY daughter 3 Gentleman's Daughter born Lambourn
Beatrix HIPPISLEY daughter 18 months Gentleman's Daughter born Lambourn
Maria LEACH servant 42 Cook born Chawleigh, Devon
Eliza PARROTT servant 31 Housemaid born Wotton, Buckinghamshire
Martha MERRETT servant 28 Housemaid born Bath, Somerset
Lucretia BALL servant 18 Nursery Maid born Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
Hannah COX servant 17 Kitchen Maid born Lambourn, Berkshire
Sarah DANIALS servant 30 Nurse born Whitminster, Gloucestershire
Sarah LYLE servant 23 Ladies Maid born Whitstone, Cornwall
William CURTISS widow servant 40 Butler born Aldbourne, Wiltshire
John HONEY servant 42 Labourer born Lambourn, Berkshire
Richard MILDENHALL servant 31 General Servant born Lambourn, Berkshire
Catherine, Agnes, Eleanor and Beatrix were daughters of Henry Hippisley Junior (1808-1896) and his first wife Elizabeth Agnes Nelson. Henry himself was in Torquay in 1851 for some unknown reason. He was a widower as Elizabeth died in 1849.
Henry married his second wife, Elizabeth Mary Sulivan, in 1851 with whom he had four more children. Elizabeth was the niece of Henry John Temple, better known as the 3rd Viscount Palmerston, British Prime Minister from 1855-1858.
The Rev H. Hippisley you mentioned was Henry Snr (1776-1838).
I'm afraid I don't know anything about servants records for the Lambourn Hippisleys. The best place to look would be in the Berkshire records office.
Feel free to email me at mike@boddyparts.co.uk.
-
Hi Daryl,
Went to the Berkshire Record Office yesterday and checked the Baptismal register for your Ambrose son of John and Eliza Honey, I found when checking for my own in Horningsham that the Vicar had annotated some of the records with the Birth date, or the age of the child, so thought that might be a possibility for your Ambrose.
Sorry, just the entry :'(
The entry is:
Baptism solemnized in the Parish of Chipping Lamborne, in the County of Berks in the Year 1844.
When Baptized Childs Parents Name
Christian Name, Christian Surname
14th April, Ambrose Son of John and Eliza, Honey
no 782.
Abode Quality Trade,Profession, By whom performed
Church Lamborne, Laborer Edwd.Thompson Vicar
I then checked the General Register Office Index of Births (Fiche) for you, Unfortunately the fiche is almost impossible to read, there is one entry that could possibly have resembled Ambrose and Honey but I wouldn't like to say that it was with any certainty, and I couldn't make out the District at all. Maybe a look up at the Family Records Centre may help, the records may be clearer, I don't know as I have never been.
Will double check the census next time I go. hopefully next week, sorry but ran out of time.
Newbie
Crown copyright acknowledged
-
Hi Daryl,
Went to the BRO yesterday to check the entry for the 1851.HO107/1686. Film 4
Martha Honey entry - I asked the archivist to verify the entries for me just to make sure
is as before, definitely,
Folio 590
Address- Newbery Street, Martha Honey, Head, Mar'd age 79 - the only query is that this age looks like a 9 compared to others on the page but it may just be a bad 4, the tail of the nine in other cases is curved and the top of the nine barely meets, as in this case, so it may be a bad 4 or a bad 9. Profession/Rank - Almsmans wife. b Berks Lambourne
Folio 629 Adddress - Churchyard, For John Honey, again checked by archivist to confirm
John Honey, Age 70, Head, Widr, Profession - in Alms House (Gamekeeper) b Berks Lambourne.
The Archivist thought it may be worth checking to make sure there isn't a burial for a Martha Honey (Johns wife), there may be 2 Martha's, do you know if thats a possibility or is Charlotte definitely one of yours (the Martha listed above daur)
What a puzzle, the other possibility (again from the archivist) is that it is just an error and John is really mar'd and not a wid'r?
Newbie
-
Thanks again Newbie. The more I think about it the more I am inclined to think John was not a widow despite the census record. Eventually I will order both death certificates and see if I can confirm they were husband and wife. I know Charlotte's Christening record shows her the Daughter of John and Martha so I feel fairly confident I am on the correct path.
Daryl