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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Wendi on Wednesday 18 July 07 18:30 BST (UK)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/6269434.stm
Locals raised the money for Det. Insp. Frederick Abberline's headstone. Since burial, 78 years ago, his grave has been unnmarked.
The article says that they are about finding living rellies!
Wendi :)
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Ooooo...I am feeling a Rootschat challenge here. ::)
Kath
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(Rolls up sleeves)
May as well start here...
Birth Registration
Frederic George ABBERLINE
March qtr 1843, Blandford vol 8 p 21
Marriage Registgration
Frederick George ABBERLINE
March qtr 1868, Islington vol 1b page 244
Spouse:
Eliza HUMBERSTONE
or Martha MACKNESS
Another?
Frederick George ABBERLINE
Dec qtr 1876, Hendon vol 3a p 202
Spouse:
Emma BEAMONT
or Sarah Ann COOK
Death Registration:
Frederick G. ABBERLINE (age 86)
Dec qtr 1929, Bournemouth vol 2b p 855
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1881 census:
RG11/383, folio 20A, page 36
London, Shoreditch
160 Commercial Street,
Police Station
Frederick G Aberline, h. mar. 38, Inspector of Police, b. Dorset, Blanford
Emma, wife, mar, 28, b. Islington, Middlesex
It must be this one then Dave:
Marriage: Dec. qtr. 1876
Abberline, Frederick George
Beaumont, Emma
Hendon, Vol.3a,page 202
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1851 Blandford, Dorset
HO 107/1853 folio 258 page 52
Address: East Street
Hannah Abberline, head, widow, 49, shopkeeper, Southampton Hants
Harriet, daur, 12, scholar, Blandford Dorset
Edward, son, 11, scholar, Blandford Dorset
Frederick, son, 8, scholar, Blandford Dorset
John Oxford, [no rel. stated], mar, 38, woolsorter[?], Warminster Wilts
1861 Blandford Dorset
RG 9/1333 folio 60 page 23
Address: East Street
Hannah Abberline, head, w, 60, formerly a shopkeeper, Southampton Hants
Edward, son, 21, cabinet maker, Blandford Dorset
Frederick G., son, 18, clock & watchmaker ap., Blandford Dorset
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1871 St Pancras (Kentish Town) London
RG 10/246 folio 78 page 24
Address: Police Station
Numerous police officers listed including
Frederick Abberline, widower, 28, police sergeant, Blandford
So...
It does look like he married twice and that his first wife died between 1868 and 1871.
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Well to start with heres his birth
8 Jan 1843 Blandford-Dorset
Father Edward Abberline
Mother Hannah
Death
10 Dec 1929
Jane
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1891 census:
RG12/406, folio 36, page 12
London, Lambeth
41, Mayflower Road
Frederick C Abberline, h. mar. 48, Chief Inspector, Metropolitan Police, b. Dorset, Blandford
Emma, wife, mar. 41, b. Middlesex, NK
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1891 Lambeth (Kennington Second) London
RG 12/406 folio 36 page 36
Address: 39 Mayflower Road
Frederick G Abberline, head, 48, chief inspector metropolitan police, Blandford Dorset
Emma, wife, 41, NK Middlesex
1901 Lambeth (Kennington Second) London
RG 13/423 folio 137 page 41
Address: 313 Clapham Road
Fredk Geo Abberline, head, 58m chief inspector of police, Blandford Dorset
Emma, wife, 51, Hoxton London
Plus two boarders and one servant.
So...
Frederick doesn't appear to have had any children (which kind of explains things).
If we're looking for surviving members of his family, what about descendants of his brother Edward?
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1871 Aldershot, Hampshire
RG 10/819 folio 96 page 36
"Royal Engineers and Royal Engineer Department"
Edward Abberline, married, 31, corporal RE, Blandford Dorset
Hellan Abberline, wife, 22, British S[ubject] America
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Edward m. Lily Beard and had at least 3 children accoring to FreeBMD
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Can't see Edward in 1881, but that's unsurprising...
1891 Camberwell (Peckham) London
RG 12/480 folio 142 page 62
Redden Road "Board School"
Edward Abberline, head, 57, school keeper, Blanford Dorset
Ellen, wife, 43, Halifax America
Cora, daur, 17, Chatham Kent
Edward, son, 13, Malta
Lizzie Marsh, servant, 23. domestic servant, Old Kent Rd London
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i know FreeBMD is not complete but:
Edward Abberline m. Lily Beard Q2 1911 Lewisham
they had the following children:
Violet H b. Q4 1911 Lewisham 1d 2004
Grace L b. Q1 1913 do. 1d 2191
Edna M Q2 1915 do. 1d 2119
Edward died age 76 Q1 1916 Greenwich 1d 1227
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Edward m. Lily Beard and had at least 3 children accoring to FreeBMD
Good spot - that's probably Edward's son.
So we have at least three other members of the family...
Violet H Abberline (1911)
Grace L Abberline (1913)
Edna M Abberline (1915)
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maybe it was Edwards son or maybe it was Edwards second marriage.
did you see his death?
also Edwards & Frederick mother Hannah died. Q4 1887 Blandford 5a 158 age 87
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Yes - it might of been a second marriage, but Edward (Fredericks elder brother) would have been about 70 in 1911.
Frederick's niece also got married...
Cora ABBERLINE
Dec qtr 1896, Camberwell vol 1d page 1591
to either
Harry LINDLEY
or Francis James LONG
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Edward junior definitely married Lily Beard...
Commonwealth War Graves Commission
Name: Edward Abberline
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Age: 66
Date of death: 24 June 1944
"Husband of Lily Abberline of 2 Windsor Road, Liverpool, Lancashire. Died at 6 Elmscott Road."
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Well that brings us well forward!
I wonder if they had any children perhaps the address has a clue?
Thanks for all your interest!!!
Wendi :)
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Gazette Issue 33592 published on the 28 March 1930. Page 42 of 84
Solicitors notice regarding the estate of Frederick George Abberline, Deceased, late of "Estcourt", 195 Holdenhurst Road, Bournemouth.
He didn't die intestate. This was a standard notice inviting creditors and others with any interest in the estate to step forward.
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I think I've found Frederick's niece, Cora...
1901 Deptford St Paul, London
RG 13/530 folio 178 page 49
32 Haydock Road
Henry Lindley, head, 25, printer lithographic, Bradford York
Cora, wife, 26, Chatham Kent
Harry, son, 2, Camberwell London
Edward, son, 10mo, Deptford London
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A quick summary...
Frederick George Abberline, son of Edward and Hannah Abberline, was born on 8 January 1843 in Blandford and died 10 December 1929 in Bournemouth.
Frederick was married twice. His first marriage was to Eliza Humberstone or Martha Mackness in 1868 in Islington. She died before the 1871 Census. He then married Emma Beaumont in 1876. Neither of these marriages appear to have produced any children.
Frederick's elder brother - Edward - was born about 1840 in Blandford. He married Ellen (surname unknown) in the early 1870s and died in 1916, age 76.
Edward and Ellen had at least two children:
* Cora, born about 1873 in Chatham
* Edward, born about 1877 in Malta.
Cora appears to have married Harry Lindley in 1896. They had at least two children:
- Harry (c.1898 in Camberwell)
- Edward (1900 in Deptford).
Edward jnr married Lily Beard in 1911 and died in 1946 as a civil casualty of WW2. They had at least three children:
- Violet (1911)
- Grace (1913)
- Edna (1915)
all registered in Lewisham.
So...
Can we find any descendants of these five children?
Their grandfather Edward Abberline was Frederick's elder brother!
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I've just spotted two fairly recent death registrations
One was born in 1918 and died 1999 in Lewisham.
The other was born 1929 and died 1989 in Bromley.
Both were sons of Edward Abberline and Lily Beard.
I won't mention their names here out of respect for their families.
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Have you read this about his life?http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-abber.html
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in 1881 Harriett M Abberline was a Nurse / Servant for the Blythe Family living at 4 Alma Villas Grange Road, Stoke Newington - age 40 born circa 1841 Blandford.
RG11 285 84 9
I wonder who Helen Abberlines parents were, she was b. Q3 1871 Farnham and died age 0 Q1 1872 Medway.
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Further news!
I have just found someone on GR who has Violet in their family tree. :D
I've sent them a message - let's hope they reply!
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For nothing other than interest value - here is a photo of Frederick:
(http://www.met.police.uk/history/images/jackr3.gif)
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Have you read this about his life?http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-abber.html
very interesting
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Have you read this about his life?http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-abber.html
very interesting
I wish I could agree but I can't find it toni? ???
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Violet H Abberline m. Broughton Q3 1932 Lewisham 1d 2643
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Have you read this about his life?http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-abber.html
very interesting
I wish I could agree but I can't find it toni? ???
i copied and pasted the link
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Violet H Abberline m. Broughton Q3 1932 Lewisham 1d 2643
Leslie B P Broughton
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Bingo
Brian R Broughton b. Lewisham Q3 1933 1d 1210 mother maiden name Abberline
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Well I guess us Rootchatters are up for the challange ;D
Thank you one and all, particularly to Dave for making the summary thus far.
I've called the TV station, but they are only available as of 8am tomorrow, I'll call them then and give them the site address.
I hope they will be willing to go nationwide as my thinks the search has to be aired outside Dorset if we are going to find grandchildren of Cora or Edward Jnr.
Wonderful stuff ;D
Wendi
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My word. I go out for the afternoon (here in America) and get back, ready to look for some rellies, and you guys have done it all. Bravo. Won't it be great if they credit Rootschat with the find. You'll have to let me know, as I won't find out otherwise, over here.
Kath
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Hi All
Just been reading this topic & & I'm thinking Emma Beamont could be a distant rellie of mine. I have some in Hoxton about that time.
Would some one be kind enough to check the 51, 61 & 71 for me to see who her parents are.
It would be nice to have a "famous" name in my tree for a change & I've always been fascinated by the Ripper. ;D
Here's hoping.
Maddie
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Hi All !
I called the TV station & sent them an email link to this post. I have asked that if they are not interested they atleast pass our site address onto those who subscribed to the memorial.
Wendi :)
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Great Wendi. Keep us posted.
Kath
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Thanks Kath!
I know how you felt last night I went to cook dinner and came back to the same amazing response, aren't RC peeps lovely !!!
I have just now emailed Matt Williams who did the stone to make him aware of the tread.
We MUST be able to take this forward by a few years from 1999 to today ???
Wendi :)
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If it was the US, I would have many tricks to find living relatives. Some of them are people searches on Yahoo and obituaries, which often list living relatives and the towns they live in. Are those options in England?
I would think if one had a relative involved in such a case, it would stay in the family lore. Maybe the family just needs to see something advertised somewhere and will come out of the woodwork, so to speak.
Kath
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I just looked over the casebook link. Has anyone found Emily, Frederick's sister, according to the link? I don't recall seeing her mentioned on here.
Kath
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Heres Emily in 1841
1841-Blandford forum
HO107/294/1-2-32
Salisbury St
ABBERLINE
Edward 40 Not born in County Saddler
Hannah 40 " "
Emily 5 " "
Harriet 3 b Dorset
Edward 2 b "
Jane
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1851 Blandford, Dorset
HO 107/1853 folio 290 page 15
Salisbury Street
Willim Felton, head, 60, victualler, Morrell Essex
Elizabeth, wife, 70, Pimlico Middlesex
Emoly [sic] Abberline, 15, servant, Salisby Wilts
Elizabeth Mantle, 59, housemaid, Bryanston Dorset
George Frazer, 28, osleter, South Petherton Somerset
George Billows, 19, helper in stable, Blandfd Dorset
1861 Margate Kent
RG 9/534 folio 103 page 18
7½ High Street
Henry Jolly, head, 51, hair dresser, Margate Kent
Mary Ann do., wife, 51, Salisbury Wilts
Emily Abberline, 25, shop assist, Salisbury Wilts
Mary Ann Johnson, servt, 20, house servt, Wickham Kent
Samuel Sunderland, 22, shop man, Halifax Yorks
Can't find any record of her after that :(
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According to the sourcebook message board archives, Emily married and had children:
"His sister Emily and her husband James Rice had at least three children
Ada Miriam Jane circa 1868
Frederick J circa 1874
Harry circa 1877"
That is a direct quote from the board.
If this is her, in 1871 I have found her with James and Ada Miriam Jane, 3
Ah, 1881 confirms that this is her, I believe, as Hannah Abberline, mother-in-law, 80, is living with
James Rice, 40, hairdresser, Marleyborne
Emily, 44, Salisbury Wilts
Ada MJ, 13, Lambeth
Frederick J, 7, Newington
Harry, 4, Newington
in 1891, I have found her in Caberwell, London widowed, with Ada MJ, 23, and Harry, 14. Interestingly, they have James Rice written above her and crossed off. In occupation it says he died 4/4
Kath
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In 1901, the three siblings are all living together (although Ada is listed as daughter to her younger brother Frederick :D) in Croydon, Surrey. Frederick and Harry are butchers with their own shop and Ada is a butcher's bookkeeper.
Kath
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;D ;D ;D Kath good stuff!!
If it was the US, I would have many tricks to find living relatives. Some of them are people searches on Yahoo and obituaries, which often list living relatives and the towns they live in. Are those options in England?
I would think if one had a relative involved in such a case, it would stay in the family lore. Maybe the family just needs to see something advertised somewhere and will come out of the woodwork, so to speak.
Kath
Here it is more lightly that an obit would be published in a local newspaper than online, :-\ however a search of 192.com shows 4 Abberline's on the 2007 Electoral Roll and more on previous ones.
Ancestry show 7 births with the associated name in their 1984-2007 Birth register all in the Kent area.
Do we have anyone in Kent or Sussex watching this who might like to help ???
Wendi :)
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i am in Sussex
Toni
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also i did look for a marriage and death for Brian R Broughton b. 1933 (Son of Violet Abberline & Leslie B P Broughton) ) but cannot seem to find either. - maybe he is still alive age 74
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Oooh that's handy toni ! I'll pm you
Wendi :)
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I have been reading this thread with great interest and it never fails roots chatters are the best detectives if this site had been around when Jack the Ripper was doing his dastardly deeds you lot would have found him and done his family tree at the same time lol
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Hello all,
Not sure who will see this as this was posted some years ago but I am a distant relative of Frederick Abberline. I am Annaliese Broughton. My grandad is called David, his mother was Violet Abberline, Edward Abberline's daughter that he and his wife Lily Beard gave birth to, Edward or Edmund being the brother of Frederick. He is my great great great uncle. I would like to go and visit his grave in Bournemouth. If anyone would like to respond please do, just wanted to let people know that there are relatives our there. I am 1 of six children myself.
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Hi Annaliese
A very warm welcome to RootsChat. :)
It's good to see that however old the threads can be on here they are still picked up by interested parties. :D I'm not aware of what the outcome of the thread was but I do now know that Frederick's second wife Emma Beament was in fact my 1st cousin 4x removed & has made anything to do with the case of "Jack" & the Met police force just a little bit more interesting. :)
Maddie
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Hi Annaliese
A very warm welcome to RootsChat. :)
It's good to see that however old the threads can be on here they are still picked up by interested parties. :D I'm not aware of what the outcome of the thread was but I do now know that Frederick's second wife Emma Beament was in fact my 1st cousin 4x removed & has made anything to do with the case of "Jack" & the Met police force just a little bit more interesting. :)
Maddie
Hi Maddie,
Thank you for your welcoming response. I have always been curious about Frederick Abberline and his life. It is interesting to know that you are also related in some way! :)
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Hi Annaliese
I must admit my interest was more in the case of Jack the Ripper to start with & that was only sparked when I visited Madam Tussauds & the Chamber of Horrors many years ago. Then when I really got into family history & discovered that one of my own ancestors had been the wife of Frederick Abberline I was quite amazed. So now I watch or read all things to do with the Ripper murders or the reasonably newly formed London Metropolitan Police in the late 1800's with even more interest, if only to see how Emma is portrayed, if at all. :D
A couple of years back I had some friends who were staying in Bournemouth & they very kindly visited the cemetery where Frederick & Emma are buried, luckily they had a camera to hand & were good enough to take a photo for me. :)
Should you ever want any info on Emma please don't hesitate to ask as I have plenty for her family & her forbears. :)
Maddie
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Gazette Issue 33592 published on the 28 March 1930. Page 42 of 84
Solicitors notice regarding the estate of Frederick George Abberline, Deceased, late of "Estcourt", 195 Holdenhurst Road, Bournemouth.
He didn't die intestate. This was a standard notice inviting creditors and others with any interest in the estate to step forward.
And since this is about headstones and commemorations there is already a blue plaque erected by the council on 195 Holdenhurst Road.
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Should you ever want any info on Emma please don't hesitate to ask as I have plenty for her family & her forbears. :)
Maddie
Hi Maddie,
You don't happen to have any photographs of Frederick and Emma, do you?
Jerry
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Hi Jerry
Welcome to Rootschat. Unfortunately I don't have any photos of Frederick & Emma but if you Google Fred's name there is a sketch of him on his Wikipedia page taken from the Illustrated Police News in 1888.
Hope this helps.
Maddie
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Thanks Maddie. It was a long shot. There is no certain known photograph of the good Inspector. Interesting that you are related to Emma!
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Hi Jerry
It is a shame no photos are known of Fred & Emma. I'm sure he didn't look like any of the actors who have played him over the years. :) My connection to Emma is through her father Henry who was a brother of my direct line ancestor James.
Maddie
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Hi Jerry
It is a shame no photos are known of Fred & Emma. I'm sure he didn't look like any of the actors who have played him over the years. :) My connection to Emma is through her father Henry who was a brother of my direct line ancestor James.
Maddie
Thanks Maddie,
There is an H Division (Whitechapel) group police photograph that some have pinpointed a couple of different officers in the photo that COULD be Abberline based on the contemporary sketches we have. Nothing is conclusive, unfortunately. It's going to take a long lost family album I believe to stumble upon a true photograph of him. That's what I was hoping you might have had. :)
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Haven't been on here for too long but have just rediscovered it searching for information on an ancestor.
Martha Abberline was my 2nd cousin 4x removed Her great grandparents, Tobias Mackness and Sarah Broughton were my 5x great grandparents, her grandfather (also Tobias) and my 4x great grandfather, John being brothers. John was the first of the family to move to Leicester.
Martha was born around October 1847 at Elton. On 5th March 1868, at the age of 21 (not 25, as it incorrectly says in the marriage register) she married Frederick Abberline at Islington.
I don't know her exact date of death but it was in the Apr-Jun quarter of that year, cause of death tuberculosis. They had no children.
He later married Emma Beament/Beaumant (depending on the record) and as far as I'm aware he had no children with her either.
Frederick and Martha's marriage intrigues me. She was the daughter of a family of farm labourers and yet at the age of 21 we find her in London married to a Police Sergeant. I can only think that she either went into domestic service, went there with her employers and met her husband, or that she maybe ran away there for some reason, was somehow disgraced and Abberline, seeing her state of health, married her to save her from the workhouse or any further disgrace. At some point she clearly returned home to her family and died there (Oundle and Elton are very close).
I can find no other reference to her.
This is one of my ongoing genealogy quests.
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Hi
Unfortunately I don't have any information on Frederick's marriage to Martha apart from the fact she was a minor on the cert & her father Tobias was a witness along with an Elizabeth Patchett. I don't know if it's relevant but in 1871 there is a 24 year old Elizabeth Patchett in service to a Susan Gardiner & family at Highbury Place Islington, I wonder if perhaps Martha had also been in service to this family. So sad that she only lived for a couple of months & must have been suffering with TB before the marriage. How she met Frederick is another matter but I did read somewhere that my Emma Beament had been mugged in the street & Frederick dealt with the case which is how they met, if this story is true or not I can't say.!! There were no children to their marriage either.
Be interesting to know if you do find any more info.
Maddie