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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Bev Tilley on Wednesday 18 July 07 11:29 BST (UK)
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Hi
could anyone help me find out why my 2xGreat Grandad and his son were in prison in 1881????
They were in separate prisons but it coincided with the rest of the family moving away from Staffordshire and changing the family name.
I have been in touch with the prisons but they say that no records are held by themselves.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Bev Tilley
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Can you give us the names please
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In cases like this a report in a local newspaper is the best bet.
Stan
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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=253
The research guide you should look at from the NA is "Sources for Convicts and Prisoners".
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Hi All
thanks for the replies.
I have checked on the national archives web site but I cannot find anything that helps on it. I know the info is there but I'm just not clever enough to navigate around it!!
The names of the 2 are WILLIAM DIX born 1821 Staffordshire who was in Parkhurst in 1881 and his son also WILLIAM DIX born 1850 in Bilston, Staffs who was in Bortal Prison, Medway Kent in 1881.
Ta again
Bev
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To actually see the records you'll have to go to the NA. I think the series that might help would be PCOM 2 (registers and indexes of prisoners, among other things), HO 140 (Calendars of Prisoners) HO 27 (Criminal Registers, England and Wales)
You should also try the archives local to the prisoners - probably Medway Archives for Borstal and IOW for Parkhurst. http://members.lycos.co.uk/s0uthbury/parklinkspage.htm - perhaps also contact these people, they might know where records are held.
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Thanks for your help. I'll give it all a go
Cheers Bev
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dont give up hope i found out one of my ancestors was in prison in Southwell and so i began ringing up various places starting with the national Archives then they passed me on to another number well they took down the details / my ancestors name where he was born what prison he was in and what year he was in there/
within 4 days someone had taken the time to look for me and found all the info and emailed me the whole case against my gt gt gt grandfather.
he stole 2 pounds worth of flour from his master then went on to steal ten shillings from a house next door
he was tried in 1851 and got 9 calander months in prison including 2 in solitary confinement it even told me he could not read or write
so there are many ways around it but many records have been destroyed i was lucky
regards Jason
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They are both convicts not just ordinary prisoners in local county goals. Both prisons were government run (Local county record offices usually only hold records for county prisons). This means the offence was serious enough for the men to be serving a term of hard labour.
They would have first been held in the local county gaol (so check with Staffordshire record office for the survival of Staffordshire gaol registers) before being tried either in the quarter sessions or the assize courts.
Quarter sessions records would be held at the local county record office, assize records are held at The National Archives. Both the TNA and the local county record office probably hold calendars of prisoners which will list them and their crime and any previous convictions.
Once convicted they would have been sent to a government prison like Pentonville or Millbank where they would be kept for some months to 'break their spirits'. Pentonville maintained a 'separate system' where convicts were not allowed to speak.
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/laworder/penton.htm
The National Archives have good records for Pentonville Prison (PCOM2 61-83 for the years 1842-1885) some of which include photographs of prisoners (1875-1885). Millbank registers are in PCOM2 20 to 58 but only go up to 1877.
After some months convicts were transfered on to other government prisoners to serve their term of hard labour. TNA have registers for Parkhurst PCOM2 59 but only for the period 1853-1863 and quarterly returns for Borstal in HO8 201-207, 1874-1876 but that looks about it. Prison records do not have a particularly good survival rate in general.
David Hawkins book 'Criminal Ancestors A guide to Historical Criminal Records in England and Wales' states the prison service holds the following records for Parkhurst prison for the period you are interested in
Surgeons' Reports 1838-1883
Registers of Inmates 1882-1900 (probably registerd as they entered the prison so too late for your man)
Unless their behaviour was poor, both convicts were likely to have been released early on licence. PCOM3 1853-1887? (I think goes up to 1887, I haven't searched the later period). Later licences have convicts' photographs and are very detailed records, but the series is time consuming to search with no indexes for the later period.
Stan's advice is spot on to check the report of the case in the local newspaper. Stafford Record Office from the calendar of prisoners should be able to give you the date of the trial. Only a newspaper report will give you all the background details to the crime. The court records will just give such details as a brief outline of the charge and sentence.
Regards
Valda
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Dear Valda and Jason
You really are wonderful to take the time and trouble to give me such detailed information. I'll get in touch with Staffs Archives now and will have to arrange a visit to NA.
MANY, MANY THANKS TO YOU BOTH
Bev :-*