RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: kerryb on Monday 16 July 07 22:53 BST (UK)
-
Hi
Found my first ancestors that went to Oz, this is new territory for me! ;D
Would someone be able to tell me how I can find out when they went, all I know is that I have an 1841 census for them in Hellingly, Sussex and then they disappear off the face of the earth.
On the IGI I have found deaths for them Richard 8 May 1876 at Geeveston, Tasmania and Phillis 6 April 1879, New Town, Tasmania.
Presumably they went between 1841 and 1851 as they don't appear on the 1851 census.
Richard Hickman (sometimes Hickmar or Hickmore) was born 1800, Sussex and Phillis was born 1800 in Chiddingly, Sussex. They had the following children:
Ellen born 1827, Sussex
Eliza born 1832, Sussex died, 1908 Tasmania
Owen born 1830 Sussex
Lois born 1833, Sussex
Harriett born 1836, Sussex
Henry born 1826, died New Town, Tasmania
Fanny born 1823, Sussex
Richard born 1839, sussex, died 1859 Hobart, Tasmania (So were obviously there by then! so my hunch of 1841 - 51 could be right!)
If anyone could give me some pointers towards the right direction to finding them I would be really grateful.
Kerry
-
Hello Kerry
Nice to see you visiting Oz :) :)
You should find some information at the Tasmanian Archives & perhaps the Southern Cemetery Trust & there are perhaps some more useful links on the Australian Resources board
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/ - try the name indexes - esp the Colonial data base
http://www.srct.com.au/search.html Cemeteries
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,399.0.html
I have to go out shortly but there will no doubt be lots of other Tas folks around with information
Trish
-
Here are a few probable marriages from the AVRI which covers Tas BDM to 1900
Lois Hickman 18 married 2 Jun 1851 Stephen GEEVES 24
Eliza Hickman 24 married Osborne GREEVES 24 28 Feb 1856
(probably brothers?)
Richard Hickman 20 married Sarah Rowland 20 27 April 1859
Harriett Hickman age 19 married Samuel Cato 23 4 Jan 1855
Henry Hickman 31 married Fanny FREELAND 22 23 Oct 1856
Frances (Fanny?) Hickman A married Joseph Cato A 31 Mar 1846 - If this one is yours it narrows the travel date further.
(Nothing like keeping the marriages in the family/ies :) :)
If they went direct to Tasmania, the immigration would probably be at the archives. There are not many Tas immigration indexes online to the best of my knowlege. The family is quite large so there must be Tasmanians researching them. Google may find some?
Not sure if you are interested but you can buy the AVRI in UK (we cannot buy it in Oz :o :o ) from the LDS for about 7 pounds
Trish
-
Here is a link to Hickman headstones through State Library of Tasmania
http://eheritage.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/search/search.aspx?KEYWORDS=hickman
Cazay
-
Thank you both so much for your help, that gives me something to work with and I've already confirmed some of the details that I found on the IGI for this family.
Kerry ;D
-
Hi
Have a look at World Connect.
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi
There is a lot of information on your family from other searchers and some of it conflicts with what has come up on this board.
The family appears to have a connection to the Latter Day Saints.
Lois appears born in Tas. It is interesting that they married people named Geeves and lived and died in Geeveston.
The information on World Connect is from contributors and subject to error.
Interesting just the same.
Sue
This gives a bit of a clue. The place was named after an early settler named William Geeves.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Tasmania/Geeveston/2005/02/17/1108500205770.html
-
Hi Kerry & Sue
The Geeves connection was slightly unusual. Lois and Steven had many children - only one managed to get registered with a name - which makes it slightly tricky to track them further
Children of Lois Hickman and Stephen Geeves
Female 14 Jul 1855
James Hadley 15 Jun 1857
Male 18 Mar 1859 - could be Joseph who died 17 April
Male 7 July 1861
Male 30 Apr 1863
Female 22 May 1865
Female 10 Jul 1867
Male 20 oct 1869
Female 7 Feb 1871
Female 5 Jul 1873
Male 14 Jun 1875
Female 6 Dec 1877
Female 15 Feb 1880
Trish
Certainly can't find any births to Richard & Phillis on the AVRI - I guess sometimes folks make assumptions when they can't find the answers
-
I have the 1841 census for the family in Hellingly, Sussex and Lois is certainly there age 7 years old.
In fact the only two children not with them for that census are the two eldest Fanny (frances) and Henry. Presumably they are living/working elsewhere and I need to do a search for them.
I got a bit side tracked this morning and found lots of information about the Geeves family, do seem quite influential.
My link with Phillis Hickman is that she has an illegitmate son in 1818, John Funnell who was my great great great grandfather.
Interstingly enough he and his wife had a daughter in 1849 and called her Phillis. Presumably only a few years after his mother and new family emigrated.
Kerry
-
I have the 1841 census for the family in Hellingly, Sussex and Lois is certainly there age 7 years old.
In fact the only two children not with them for that census are the two eldest Fanny (frances) and Henry. Presumably they are living/working elsewhere and I need to do a search for them.
It did often happen that older children in a family were the first to emigrate & they then encouraged parents and siblings to join them. This happened with one of my Scottish families - so if you don't find Fanny & Henry, they may already be over here :) :)
Do you want the BDM records for offspring from the other marriages?
Trish
-
I have positively found Henry aged 15 as an Ag Lab in a nearby farm and a possible Fanny elsewhere but she is 20 not 18.
I went to the Archives Office of Tasmania site and found Family Links details with the children of each of the children.
The one detail I can't find at the moment is when they emigrated, it doesn't look like they went to Tasmania :-\ or at least they are not showing on the list of Immigrants there.
Kerry
-
Hi,
Your Aussie quests are going very well for you so far!
I should just mention though that the Family Links link is also a contributor- based site and so may also contain assumptions and errors as silly as the one about Lois.
Having said that, there is also an enormous amount of valuable information there and what you find will certainly be at least 'on the track.'
Sue
-
Hi Sue
I totally agree, I like to check out everything with official records as much as possible for everything for my own piece of mind. Early on in my research I made the mistake of putting something on my tree that came from someone else and then got an email from someone else who had more up to date information and he was quite nasty. I learnt my lesson well!!!!!
The family links is at least giving me names I can check out for children, marriages etc.
Kerry
-
I believe a few years ago the Tas archives stopped user made corrections & cleaned up the Colonial links data base so it only (or nearly only) references their early BDM records. Could still be a few errors but mainly correct.
What Immigrant list are you checking Kerry? - I never found my Tas immigrants on an online list - had to visit the archives to track them down :( :(
Trish
-
Sorry Trish, I'm misleading you ::) ::) It was actually one of the Names Indexes on the archives site - Naturalisations not Immigrants.
I'll go back to sleep now! ::)
Kerry ;D
-
There was never any need for British immigrants to get naturalised until (I think) the 1980s! I was somewhat amazed when I was in England in 2002 that I had to enrol to vote! It took months to get visas sorted & no way could I outstay the visa, but I could vote. I was disappointed there was no election after I was enrolled :( :(
If you don't find anyone going to the Tas archives (I've done a couple of trips there ancestor searching but have no idea when I might get there again), they do have a research service, which is quite inexpensive and amazingly in our current world, they do the research first & then bill you! (they do quote so you know the price). I often wonder if everyone pays - archives researchers must be honest souls :) :).
Trish
-
I shall have a look later and thanks for all your help Trish!
Kerry
-
Hi Kerry
Rather timely - keith just posted on what he received from the Tas archives and the cost
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,202666.0.html
hope this helps
Trish
-
Thank you Trish
Crumbs what a generous price :o ;D I shall definitely contact them and see what I get, Lucky Keith!
Kerry
-
Just to update and a big big thank you to Trish for your help. I emailed the Tasmanian Archives and had a reply today from someone who just happens to be a descendant of Richard and Phillis. What a small world :o :o ;D
She's sending me some bits and pieces in the post so I am going to have to be patient now ::)
Kerry
-
Your "small world" is very true when considering Tasmania. The total current population of Tasmania is less than 1/2 million with about half of them in Hobart. Apart from the grey nomads and climate change analysts :) who have retired to Tasmania, most of the population are descended from the earlier settlers - most of whom were convicts :D - so the odds are much smaller that you will meet a relative in Tasmania than that you will win the lotto!
When I visited the archives a few years ago - I met 2 people there who were descended from my husbands convict & thus distant inlaws!
I gather from Keith it takes a while for the snail mail - do let us know what you find out
Trish
-
Will do! ;D
I must stop thinking of Tasmania in the terms of my thoughts of Australia in general, ie - big!!!!!!! ::) ::)
Kerry
-
I have some GEEVES information - including an Osborne who looks like he might be the son of your Osborne.
I can email it to you if you are interested?
A few HICKMANs too but none I could positively connect.
Cheers
Karen.
-
Hi Karen
I will send you a PM
Thanks
Kerry
-
Well for those of your interested I finally got my information on Richard and Phyllis today.
And what information! ;D ;D
I went some notes from a typescript written by another descendant which includes some useful history that may help me to find Richard Hickman in England and some history as to why they emigrated. A letter to the local workhouse asks that two of the children be admitted over the winter but the decision is made that only one can be admitted. Apparently it was a severe winter 1841/42
The Parish Union then agreed on 9 May 1842 to assist the family to emigrate. They had a quick decision as the boat sailed on the 17th. I can only imagine what they must have gone through!
There are other really interesting bits and pieces about what they got up when they arrived, apparently they were one of the first families to export apples back to England. There is a photo of their property in 1890 and photo of Phyllis my grt x 4 grandmother.
And a song written by the migrants aboard the Appoline in 1842 called the Appoline song!
And a photocopy of the Immigrants received into Belle Vue quarter and the rations they were given. There they all are!
I wonder if Phyllis found it hard to leave behind her first son, illegitimate John by now with his own family. He was my grt x 3 grandfather. I guess they never saw each other again. Phyllis outlived John as he was run over by his card in 1861. :'( :'(
Kerry
-
thats great you found all that info. Kerry i wish my Hickmans were as easy.
was your Richard Hickman descended from James HIckman & Sarah Gander both born circa 1779 Hellingly.
-
Hi Toni
As yet I don't know that. One of my next tasks is to find him. What I do know about him is that he was born approximately 1794 to 1797, I have seen it mentioned at Mayfield but he and Phyllis married at Hellingly and that is certainly where he and Phyllis lived before they emigrated in 1842.
Having just checked the marriage entry on the Sussex Marriage Index it says Richard is of Mayfield.
Kerry
-
Richard s/o James & Sarah i think was b. circa 1815 so approx 10 years after yours at Chiddingly.
it was his brother George b. circa 1811 that i mentioned before (in another thread) who married Lucy Funnell (d/o John Funnell)
so it looks like our Hickmans are not connected then ornot directly connected then.
-
Hi toni
I have a feeling they may well have known of each other, cousins of cousins and all that.
I'm not succeeding in finding a proper birth for Richard at all :-\
Kerry
-
you know on IGI there is a submitted entry for your Richard Hickman b. 11 Mar 1839 Hellingly father Richard Hickman mother Phyllis Fennell (sic) died 28 April 1891
-
no i can't find mine either
-
you know on IGI there is a submitted entry for your Richard Hickman b. 11 Mar 1839 Hellingly father Richard Hickman mother Phyllis Fennell (sic) died 28 April 1891
Yes there are a few submitted entries on IGI for Richard but nothing substantial, they can't agree and I don't trust them!
My visit to Lewes is beckoning!
Kerry
-
very wise not to trust them i was thinking of going to Lewes too but its Finding the time before Christmas
-
I know just what you mean, however if I don't go soon I'm going to collect so much to look up that I shall need to take a sleeping bag with me!
Kerry
-
Hi Kerry
So please the information eventually arrived & certainly interesting - much better than a certificate (although not being able to find the later is always frustrating!). I guess they didn't have a lot of choice re travelling to Australia - go now or we won't support you any further!!
With the parish union sending out their poor and the govt sending out their convicts, there was probably much saddness when the colonies eventually decided they want to select their own immigrants ;D ;D
Trish
-
Trish
For me thats half the joy of finding out these people, finding the truths or imagining the truths behind bland sentences like the Parish Union paid for them to migrate to Australia. Apparently the Union paid the fare for Phyllis and all the children but Richard had to pay his own way.
We think we have it tough these days ::)
Kerry
-
With the parish union sending out their poor and the govt sending out their convicts,
Trish
would mean England was full of rich law abiding citizens!
-
Trish
For me thats half the joy of finding out these people, finding the truths or imagining the truths behind bland sentences like the Parish Union paid for them to migrate to Australia. Apparently the Union paid the fare for Phyllis and all the children but Richard had to pay his own way.
We think we have it tough these days ::)
Kerry
its much more interesting to find out little bits and peices other than just the basic facts i.e they were b. then they lived here in 41 and here in 51 (1841/51 i mean) they married then they lived here they worked as and they had these childrne then they died.
-
I have just discovered this thread and was interested to read about Phillis Hickman in particular. Richard and Phillis are my great x 3 grandparents. I was not aware of Phillis's illegitimate son and would like to know where I could find out some more about him.If anyone could help me that would be great.
Pat
-
Hi Pat
Welcome to Rootschat!
Which of Phillis and Richard's children are you descended from? Phillis was my 4 x great grandmother, you can read more about her on my website http://www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk/html/phillis_funnell.html and if you are interested in having a look at the family tree I'll send you a PM with my password.
The page about her illegitimate son John is http://www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk/html/john_funnell.html
Kerry
-
Hi Kerry
Thankyou for your welcome. You have done a great job on your website, lots of interesting information. I am descended from Richard and Phillis's son, Richard. I have Robert Kelletts book so I know something of their history in Tasmania but not much about the family in England.
I would be very interested in looking at your family tree.
Pat
-
Hi Polly
I will send you a private message with my password.
Kerry
-
Hi Kerry
Thanks for the password. I enjoyed looking at your site.
Pat
-
Interesting info about Phillis' father, John. I didn't have that info.
Thanks.
-
Hello Kerry,
I hope you are doing well after so many years since our last correspondence.
We wrote years ago about Richard Hickmer/Hickman.
I am trying to clean up my Funnell lines and there seems to be alot of inconsistencies in Ancestry trees etc.
I am linking Thomas Funnell and Sarah Mott father of John Funnell b 1763 father of Phillis Funnell. Some trees have Thomas as being born in 1719 and married to 4 women at different times but the marriage register to Sarah Mott says that he was a bachelor and I have him born in 1730 married in 1760. The link to your Funnell tree on this forum seems to be broken. Is there a way to send you a private message? Denise
-
my 2xgrandfather George Burdett married Theresa Hickman and they lived in Drury lane and soho London.I have got as far as 1720 with the Hickmans.Nice to see others from the line on here
-
Hello Roy family, good to see recent activity on this thread.
I can't find any trees that include a George Burdett and a Theresa Hickman.
I have created a tree from census records on Family Search ID KKSH-P52 of a George Burdett born 1847 whose wife was Theresa b 1845 (no surname) who was from Lincolnshire.
Their children span from 1870 to 1886 - Theresa, Esther, George Charles, Rachel, John and Florence christened in Soho London.
Does this look anything like your tree?
-
Hi Kerry, I am a descendant of Richard and Phyllis Hickman. I live in Hobart. Feel free to message me if you would like. Gen
-
Hi Kerry, sorry I am having a great deal of trouble trying to navigate this website, hopefully this reaches you.
Richard's son Henry (Leonard) was my great grandfather, then John grandfather, then Reginald father. I grew up in Kangaroo Valley (now Lenah Valley) and recall my father's family orchards in Bushy Creek Road before the 1967 fires destroyed them.
Heritage websites suggest that Richard's mother is Sarah Hickmer (later Lusted), born around 1776. Sarah had two other children James Hickmer (born 1792) and John Hickmer (born 1798). Some sites suggest that Sarah's husband Joseph Lusted was the children's father (not sure about this as they married well after the children's births in 1803, but I cannot find any further children for them).
Sarah's parents are nominated as Richard Hickmer (Hickmar) (born about 1742 -1782) and Ann Hickmer (nee Thomas), born 1743-1767 on some sites.
Going back farther, some sites suggest the above Richard Hickmer (born about 1742) is the son of Richard Hickmore, (born around 1720 - 1791) and Elizabeth Hickmore (nee Lassender) (born 1720-1767, married in 1741). Noticeably he the married Elizabeth Hickmore (nee Hermer) in 1769.
The above Richard Hickmore was born to Richard Hickmore (born circa 1690) married Elizabeth Hickmore (nee Mills) (born about 1694).Married 1715. They were also known by Hickmett and Hickmar.
His father is listed once as a Joseph Hickman.
Dates appear to be align mostly to what you would expect. Way too many Richards and Elizabeth's to have too much certainty. Some data I'm not too confident with either.
How have you gone with your search? Gen
-
Hi Gen
Thank you for your reply. I must relook for Richard's baptism, I never managed to find it, but maybe that was because I was looking for a father! I now have more idea of who I am looking for.
I have carried out a fair bit of research into his wife Phillis who was my great x4 grandmother. I am descended from her illegitimate son, John Funnell who was born in Chiddingly, Sussex where Phillis came from and lived his life in Warbleton, Sussex working at Rushford Farm which remained in the family for a further 4 generations.
I have a page on my website with her profile: https://app.weare.xyz/public/baldwin-family-tree/individuals/lxpg507ro74x/welcome It is a new website that I am currently developing so let me know if anything doesn't work.
If you look at the Tree tab that is probably the most useful page as it has my latest tree on it where you can find Phillis and her family line in Chiddingly. I need to research further up the tree. I have Phillis's mother's line going back to the late 1600s in Chiddingly.
Kerry
-
Hi Gen
I searched through the parish registers for Hellingly that are online with Ancestry.co.uk and found both James and John baptised to Sarah but there is no sign of Richard. I searched from 1790 to 1800 bearing in mind he is thought to be born about 1794. Was he thought to be born elsewhere or do the heritage sites have evidence that he was born but not baptised?
Kerry