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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: beathogs on Thursday 12 July 07 13:30 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
First post on this forum so bear with me ...
I have my ggg grandparents James and Mary Turnbull on the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census. In 1871 they were living at 32 Orr Street, Calton.
On 7th May 1880 their son George married Catherine McCombe in Blackfriars and James is listed as a deceased Iron Foundry Labourer. Mary is listed as maiden surname O'Neill and I am assuming that she is still alive in 1880.
However, I cannot find the deaths for either James or Mary and have spent a fortune on Scotlands People trying to do so ruling out many of those listed. I would love to find out when they died and possibly even where they are buried but have now hit that annoying brick wall.
James was born in Ireland c. 1817 and Mary was born in Ireland c. 1821. Their children were Mary, William, James (my gg grandfather), Peter, George, Margaret and Anne.
I have most of the census records and some birth / marriage records including the birth of Anne in 1861 which gives marriage details of James and Mary as 1840 in Killyleagh, Ireland ... confusingly though it gives Mary's maiden name as Greer.
So, if anyone can help or advise me on tracing the deaths or if there are any Turnbulls out there possibly linked to this family I'd love to hear from you.
Jan
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Hello Jan.
I wish you well with your search. Like yourself, I also found that my ggg grandparents are listed on the same census years as your rellies. They were also born in Ireland. However, when I did eventually locate my ggg grandmother's death, she was listed as having her mother's christian name. Might be worthwhile trying to widen your field. My rellies, were of the name Coventry, but I still have not found out where from in Ireland.
Regards
Gail
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Hi Gail,
Do you know if there is a death index other than the one on Scotlands People .... I don't even mind coming up to Glasgow to spend some time in a library if such an index exists.
I have tried variants on the names e.g Trimble, Maria etc but nothing and it is now too expensive to buy credits for a bit of a wildcard search ..... very frustrating especially as I followed the wrong Turnbull family back to 1700 and found all the records for them ha ha.
Jan
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Hi Jan,
Have you thought that James Turnbull may have remarried?
On IGI, I list below what I have found, all extracted records
Parents James Turnbull and Mary Neill
George Turnbull b 06 Jul 1856 Bridgeton Glasgow
Parents James Turnbull and Mary Greer
Margaret Turnbull b 06 Nov 1858 Bridgeton Glasgow
Anne Turnbull b 01 Aug 1861 Bridgeton Glasgow
Sarah Turnbull b 12 May 1864 Bridgeton Glasgow
I was thinking that Mary Neil may have died aroung 1856 and he has remarried by 1858.
Tom
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Hi Jan,
Hope I found correct family in 1851 census, but having great difficulty pinning them down after that.
1851 census at London Road, Calton, Glasgow
James Turnbull 34 b 1817 Ireland Iron Foundry Labourer
Mary Turnbull 31 b 1821 Ireland
Mary Jane Turnbull 10 b 1841 Ireland
William Turnbull 7 b 1844 Ireland Scholar
James Turnbull 3 b 1848 Barony, Glasgow
Peter Turnbull 8 mo b 1850 Barony, Glasgow
Having great trouble finding them in 1861 census
James Turnbull 44 b 1817 Ireland cannot find
Mary Turnbull 41 b 1821 Ireland cannot find
Mary Jane Turnbull 20 b 1841 Ireland cannot find
William Turnbull 17 b 1844 Ireland cannot find
James Turnbull 13 b 1848 Glasgow boarder with Ann Algie 73 b 1779 in Glasgow
Peter Turnbull 10/11 b 1850 Barony, Glasgow cannot find
George Turnbull 5 b 1856 Bridgeton Glasgow cannot find
Margaret Turnbull 3 b 1858 Bridgeton Glasgow cannot find
Not much better in 1871 census
James Turnbull 54 b 1817 Ireland cannot find
Mary Turnbull 51 b 1821 Ireland cannot find
Mary Jane Turnbull 30 b 1841 Ireland cannot find
William Turnbull 27 b 1844 Ireland cannot find
James L Turnbull 23 b 1848 Glasgow nephew of Margaret Young in Glasgow
Peter Turnbull 20/21 b 1850 Barony, Glasgow cannot find
George Turnbull 5 b 1856 Bridgeton Glasgow cannot find
Margaret Turnbull 13 b 1858 Bridgeton Glasgow cannot find
Anne Turnbull 9 b 1861 Bridgeton Glasgow cannot find
Sarah Turnbull 6 b 1864 Bridgeton Glasgow cannot find
If this not correct family, tell us where they were in the census years, please.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
I will do a search for a marriage of James Turnbull to Mary Greer and another for James Turnbull to Mary Neill / O'Neill and see what I come up with. Thanks for that .... despite doing this for a good while now sometimes you forget the obvious ha ha (must be my age).
The only fly in the ointment is that on the birth certificate of their youngest child Anne in 1861 it lists the marriage of her parents as being in 1840 in Ireland, giving Mary's maiden name as Greer. Neill / O'Neill appears on the birth / wedding certificates of George in 1856 and 1880. Greer also appears on the birth certificate of Margaret in 1858. I am happy that I have found the right births as occupations and addresses correspond to the census.
I have them on all the census after trying various spellings which is probably why you couldn't find them in 1861 (Tumball) and 1871 (Turnball). I also have Anne and Margaret in 1881 living with the Mccombe family .... no sign of either parents.
So, James died between 1871 and 1880 and I still can't find this or the death of Mary ... any other suggestions.
Jan
p.s What website did you use to look up the births as I was using Scotlands People and it was costing too much.
p.p.s Thanks for finding Sarah .... I didn't know about her but she may have died young as she isn't on the 1871 census.
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Hi Jan,
I use the Family Search of the Latter Day Saints, http://www.familysearch.org/
and search under the IGI. I also use Ancestry.co.uk for my census searches. I use SP for searching, and only if I am stuck do I print of certificates.
I will check up the 1861 & 1871 census again.
Tom
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Hi Jan,
Found the 1861 & 1871 census for the mistranscribed Turnbulls. Did a wee bit further searches,
In 1881 census, there is a Mary Turnbull in Barnhill Poorhouse,
Not sure if it is her, because it says a Mason’s wife.
Ann Turnbull 19 b 1862 Glasgow is a lodger at 193 West Princes St, Glasgow, she is a Bookfolder.
In 1891 census, at 14 St John St Lane, Calton,
Mary Turnbull 72 b 1819 was a mother in law to William Moore and his wife, (maybe Mary’s daughter) Anne, who was born in Glasgow 1863. This is not too far away from Anne’s age in previous census
Additionally it said Mary was a former sick nurse.
Does that make any sense?
Tom
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Tom,
Its looking good ....... although on the census I have found Annie is married to John Moore and his brother is William.
Just did the search on marriage between John Moore and Annie Turnbull and found it in 1883 listing her father as James Turnbull a deceased furnaceman (which he was) .... and it lists her mother as Mary Turnbull maiden name Newall which I suppose is near enough to Neill even though on Annies birth certificate it says Greer.
They don't make it easy for us do they.
So, now then, have just found the death for Mary, widow of James Turnbull in 1895 at Barnhill Poor House and gives her parents surname as Neil ..... still looking good I'm thinking and it must be her on the 1881 census at Barnhill.
Well Tom you have done me proud tonight ... I have found two other children for James and Mary, a marriage for Annie and Mary's death which is what I originally set out to find.
Ta loads
Jan
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Hi Jan,
Thanks , I enjoyed the night also. It is great to get answers and to remove some obstacles, after a good nights sleep, how many new questions will you have.
Tom,
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I have found a death for a James Turnbull on 7th Feb 1872 aged 54 years registered at Lasswade, Edinburgh, Midlothian with the informant being his son William Turnbull.
My James had a son called William.
However, the writing on the death register is nigh on impossible to read despite my valiant attempts at enhancing the image. I can't read his occupation although it begins with F (too short to be furnaceman or foundryman).
Also I can't read the place of death ..... it looks something like Durden or Dresden House.
Anyone got any clues re the place of death or can anyone fathom out the writing ... am currently searching to see if I can find a different William Turnbull with a father called James but am crossing fingers that this is the right one and he was working away.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c336/beathogs/james.jpg)
Come on Tom lets see if you can solve my last piece of the puzzle seeing as you did so well last night.
Jan
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Hi Beathogs,
It is Dundas House, certainty, I played at Dundas Park, which is in Bonnyrigg & Lasswade.
I think occupation starts with a T see the T in Turnbull, still working it out.
Tom
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Hi everyone,
First post on this forum so bear with me ...
I have my ggg grandparents James and Mary Turnbull on the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census. In 1871 they were living at 32 Orr Street, Calton.
[snip]
Jan
Hi Jan...have you contacted the convenor of this site... http://www.turnbullclan.com/tca_genealogy/tca_all-p/index.htm he may be able to help. My own Turnbulls are connected on here as well.
Cheers
Sarndra
www.sarndra.com
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Hi Beathogs,
It is not Dundas House, jumped ih their wi 2 feet. It is Dryden House and he was a forester. Although on census it says Dryden Mansion
In the 1871 census at Dryden Mansion at Lasswade,
James Turnbull 55 b 1816 Witton Roxburghshire Forester
Jane Turnbull 52 b 1819 Colinton Edinburgh
William Turnbull 18 b 1853 b St Cuthberts Edinburgh Mason
Henry Turnbull 16 b 1855 Glencorse (Glencross?)Midlothian Ag Lab
Agnes Turnbull 15 b 1856 Lasswade Dress Maker
Ann Turnbull 11b 1860 Lasswade Scholar
I dont think the above is your family, is it?
Tom
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Hi Beathogs and Sarndra,
Had a look at the Turnbull site, what a great pice of work, how many years did that take. Unfortunately had a look at the Glasgow Turnbulls and yours (Beathogs) are not there, maybe have to back a generation or two to get connected.
Very impressive site though.
Tom
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However, the writing on the death register is nigh on impossible to read despite my valiant attempts at enhancing the image. I can't read his occupation although it begins with F (too short to be furnaceman or foundryman).
I reckon the occupation os Forester - the T and F in other words are similar. See F in February.
Dave
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Hi Beathogs and Sarndra,
Had a look at the Turnbull site, what a great pice of work, how many years did that take. Unfortunately had a look at the Glasgow Turnbulls and yours (Beathogs) are not there, maybe have to back a generation or two to get connected.
Very impressive site though.
Tom
It's terrific indeed. I remember contacting Stan Turnbull in 1989 and joining his mailing (by snail!) mail list back then... he had amassed an enormous amount of information by then. I see a Brian Turnbull is now running it.
My interest is the line of Henry Fitzroy TURNBULL who married my g grandmother Eva Ada HAMILTON, although i am descended through another of her children and not either of the children from her marriage to Henry.
Cheers
Sarndra
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Well done Tom,
I'm happy that its not him so back to Scotlands People for me .... but there are about 25 deaths for a James Turnbull between 1871 when I last have him on the census and 1880 when his son marries and he is listed as deceased ... tooooooooo expensive to start looking at all of them.
Will check out the Turnbull site a bit later on tonight .... thanks for the info Sarndra, perhaps there will be a Turnbull link somewhere in there to my lot.
Catch you all later
Jan