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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: NickyUK on Wednesday 04 July 07 15:12 BST (UK)
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hello there :) can someone help me out please.
Unfortunalty I do not have ancestry, and the 1881 census, I can't find a thing.
Joseph Phillips born chorlton staffordshire 1859. mother and father Thomas and Harriet. Now I know that in 1891 Joseph had two children on that census living with himself and his mother and father. Children were Harriet and Thomas. Harriet born 1877 Normanton stone yorkshire,
Thomas born 1881 Normanton, Yorkshire, Stone England
I would really like to place them before 1891 and to have the name of their mother. can anyone help?
Nicky
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It's difficult to make sense of your information.
Could you give a transcription of the 1891?
Pauline
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The full birth marriage and death indexes, plus the partial BMD database, plus the 1881 census are all free to view on Ancestry
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/default.aspx
you do not need a subscription
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hi, all i know is that Joseph Phillps had two children harriet and thomas
all three of them were on the 1891 census which I dont have. they were living with Joseph's parents.
I have looked at the 1881 census and cant find anything
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Then I suggest that you use a library/ LDS centre to look at Ancestry.
Update your records to include a full transcription of 1891 with ref(s).
You may find something if you use the 1891 information about parents to find more of them in 1881.
Pauline
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Hello Nicky
If this is the correct family,no sign of Joseph (father)
1891 Stone Staffs RG 12/2143 folio19 page 5
William Phillips 65 surface man roads Staffs Maer
Harriet wife 62 -----Littleworth
George son 40 ------Maer
William ---- 32 ------ ----
Harriet g.daug 14 Yorksh.Normanton
Thomas g.son 10 -------- ----------
A possible in 1881 RG11/4855 folio16 page 24
Linthorpe Yorkshire.
Jackie
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.... so these children could be George's or William's and not necessarily Joseph's at all. And the grandparents are William and Harriett not Thomas and Harriett.
Think you need to go back to what you definetly know for sure, NickyUK, and work from there.
If 'your' Joseph has parents Harriett and Thomas, as you said in your first post, then this 1891 census entry is probably nothing to do with him!
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Sorry
Should have stated in previous message re.1891
census...
Sons George + William were both single.
Jackie.
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thankyou for all your help... so confusing. Joseph's mother and father were defo thomas and harriet. I know that by family transcripsts
the name you have there 'william' his age is about the same and my Thomas (65) so I wonder if that was a middle name.
thomas and harriet had a son called george and the age is about correct that you have there. I am not sure about the other william though? I do have several but none that fit that age range.
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I think you are clutching at a very thin, possibly non existant straw here.
What makes you think that this William and Harriet Phillips (not exactly an unusual name) with their sons George and William, are the same people as a Thomas and Harriett Phillips who have a son, Joseph?
Do you have other evidence?
If not I would forget this family for the time being, and go back to finding your Thomas, Harriett and Joseph on the censuses
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Hi Nicky
I have been searching the 1891 census but cannot find your family on them. Do you know what district they were living in on that census?
Cathy ;D
Modification 7.00pm.
Nicky I have found the same census return as Jackie - However I think that the Head of the family should be Thomas not William. This would be more in line with the details you have. I have followed the family back to 1861 but cannot find a Joseph listed, there is however a John aged 9 in 1871, RG10/2830. They seem to have had a lot of children. They are living in the early census returns at Chapel Chorlton.
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Is there ANY sighting after 1871?
Could this be why if not?
DEATHS JUN 1876
Joseph Philips age-at-death 18y Ashbourne Derbyshire, Staffordshire
Pauline
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Hi Pauline, if i understand the original information correctly, Joseph had two children Harriet and Thomas. I understand that Thomas was born in 1881. I too thought that perhaps he may have died but Harriet was born in 1877. I cannot find Joseph anywhere at the moment or the birth of the two children - a bit of a mystery.
Cathy ;D
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thankyou for your help. I am very grateful.
When I had access to ancestry I traced right from when Thomas Phillps lived with his father and mother. I followed the trace and compared names and dates with transcripts that were sent to me by a relative. I found that all my names proved to be correct. In the transcripts they state that someone moved to Normanton, and it appears that these two children were born there.
I have looked at my notes and Joseph had a middle name of William. I think perhaps william age 32 could be Joseph.
I belive this is my family because the head of the family down as william (which I too think should of been thomas) WAS born Maer staffordshire. Son george was also born Maer staffordshire.
I think am not going to get much further than this.
regards
Nicky
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Do any locals know what registation district Normanton comes under?
If it is Bradford, then these could be the births of the two children:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1877 Harriet Phillips Bradford area 9b 86
Jul/AugSep 1880 Thomas Phillips Bradford area 9b 216
Getting their birth certs ( or looking at parish records for Normanton for christenings) would confirm their parentage. As I see it, there is still no evidence they are Joseph's children.
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Normanton would be Wakey..
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/REG/districts/wakefield.html
Pauline
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Looked full birth indexes 1876/77/78
no Harriet Phillips registered in wakefield area.
(only looked Phillips with 2 'l's')
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well.. I think I have solved some of the mystery.
sometime ago I emailed someone on ancestry as they had a Thomas phillips in there tree 1852... with the same area of one of my thomas's. My thomas was born to Thomas and Harriet also. (Harriets maiden name is Owen) Anyhow.. turns out it's the same Thomas.. but... this thomas born in 1852 also had a son called Thomas who was born 1881 in NORMANTON Yorkshire. His full name is Thomas Owen PHillips There is no Harriet on the tree. I got so confused with the whole situation I am now beginging to question why I thought thomas and harriet were Josephs children. I think they are actually Thomas's children.