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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: acookey on Monday 02 July 07 06:39 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I have Jane Arthur who married Miles Lake in 1824. She was born in the Colony, but I have not found a birth record.
She shows up on the 1822 muster as 19 years old, single at Windsor, Born in the Colony.
In the 1823/24/25 she is shown as Miles Lake's wife (along with another lady called Sarah, but I think this is a mistake) and three of their children.
I can't find her in any of the earlier musters.
She must have been born about 1802, but I can find no lead as to who her parents were.
I just wondered whether anyone else had researched her, or tried to!!
Annette
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I would look into the activities of any female or male convicts surnamed Arthur who had arrived in the Colony pre 1802ish. I am not too sure if there would have been too many free women, if any, arriving before then. But then again her father may have been a free man, her mother a convict.
Just my thoughts. :)
ChristineR
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Hi
Thats the problem, I haven't been able to find a convict Arthur. There was an Alexander Arthur who was a NSW Corps Pvt and he married a Jane Morris. So far as I can see she died as Jane Arthur, so there were two Jane Arthur's. I had them mixed up for a while.
I have looked through all the musters, and can't find anything relevant, unless I missed something.
Annette
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Hi Annette :)
Have you found any record of Jane's death? If she died late enough you might be lucky and get parent names on her death certificate (assuming the informant knew who her parents were).
Prue
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Hi Annette
I notice in the Colonial Secretary's papers, 1788-1825 on the State records website, she is mentioned twice.
Both of which are regarding permission to marry.
1824 Jun 29,30 Re permission to marry Thomas Colcutt at Windsor (Reel 6013; 4/3511 p.598)
1824 Nov 2 Re permission to marry Miles Lake at Windsor (Reel 6013; 4/3512 p.692)
Have you looked at these records? They may have a little more information.
regards
Genni
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Hi Genni
I obtained photocopies of the Lake/Arthur papers, but there was nothing of relevance re her family.
Thanks for the suggestion. :)
Annette
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hello,
Miles Lake and Jane Arthur were my great, great, great, great grandparents.
i am currently writing a book, a memoir, and this is where myheritage begins.
i have no more information on Jane than you do at this time but i am researching a connection to Captain John Piper,
i am not sure if there is any connection but would be very interested to know what your interest is.
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IGI has an entry showing the marriage as 6 Dec 1824 at St Matthew's WINDSOR - however it's a submitted entry so needs to be treated with caution.
NSW BMDs index shows the marriage:
1824 Reg # V18243462 3B
Miles LAKE
Jane ARTHUR
CC (CC is the church code for St Matthew's Windsor)
You probably have this certificate - if not, it may give some clues as to Jane's parents. Ordering a transcription is cheaper than buying direct. Sometimes, though, early certificates are not much help. The children's birth certificates may also be worth looking at.
There are a couple of mentions on TROVE
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13323200 and
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28409405
These are notices for the death of a Miles LAKE lost off Cape Campbell in the brig Australia - 1873. I assume this is the son born 1830.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2214264 (1837) refers to a parcel of land in Windsor which Miles LAKE left to his widow and which was then sold on.
If Miles was dead by 1837 Jane may well have married again. This seems to be his death - Jane was quite a bit younger than he was.
1832 Miles LAKE, age 57 (V18321894 16)
I note a marriage of a Jane LAKE in 1869 (#433) to a John LINDSAY, registered SYDNEY. This seems a bit late for Jane, edit to add - and is definitely not her according to the info in a newspaper notice . The only Jane LAKE death I could see was in 1900, which seems a bit late for your Jane.
None of which really helps in finding Jane's parentage. ???
Judith
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Annette / Kaye
do either of you have the marriage cert for 1824 of Jane = Miles Lake?
As Judith said, you don't get much information on those early certificates, but you never know.
If you haven't got it, I could try to look on the film at the weekend when I visit my local FH library.
You'd need to let me know by Friday though if you'd like me to look.
Or at Miles' death one, too.
Dawn M
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And, from transcription of IGI extracted records Miles LAKE, born 13 August 1830, baptised 5 September 1830, at Windsor, NSW... a son to Miles and Jane LAKE (noting no nee name shown).
I note that the above is also found at https://www.familysearch.org/
http://www.hawkesburyhistory.org.au/carol/stmatt.html
EDIT TO ADD ... John Piper, some bio material here, of course needs validating.
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A020295b.htm
Cheers, JM
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Some thoughts
Have you considered that
perhaps the record of Jane's baptism has not survived?
perhaps her father's name was not recorded?
perhaps her surname was not Arthur ... could it be the given name of her father?
perhaps her baptism can be found on one of the reels at the NSW State Library in Macquarie St Sydney ... I have used these ... in particular the ones with illegitimate births pre 1810 ... it was very helpful, noting both parents, although the online index at NSW BDM does not list any given name for the baby's father, and gives an odd spelling for the mother's surname.
Also, I agree that the Early Church Records that are on certificates from NSWBDM are typed up, so in my opinion, the better (cheaper/quicker eg email as pdf v snail mail) option is a transcript from official transcribers
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
Cheers, JM
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I can see images of the m.c. and a d.c. at a submitted public tree on a commercial site.
m.c. by banns 6 Dec 1824, St Matthews C of E, Windsor (cert issued 1971, someone searching for many years)
3462, vol 3
d.c. shows d o d as 17 Oct 1848 at age 70, domestic servant, Maitland (cert issued 1988 I can read Vol 33) this matches up with online ref V18481082 33B/1848 interestingly both online index and the image is in name of Jane Arthur ... so perhaps the d.c. is for Mrs Miles's mother?
Cheers, JM
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this is wonderful material. i have much follow-up work to do.Jane and Lohn Lindsay were also related to me.
the only Arthur i have been able to find anything o is an Alex Arthur who arrived the year Jane was born.
i am aware of the habit of using father's christian name to givea child a name.
also much of the information i have is tying up with much of the above.
Jane was about 20 years Milesjunior and i believe she married the man "who stood up for Miles" at the wedding.
there is a connection to the Eather family. i have not had the chance yo follow that up yet.
i will be back after following these links.
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Lots of info on those trees. ;D I do think you are right JM with that death of 70year-old Jane LAKE in 1848 being this Jane's mother - or stepmother. (There is evidence in those trees for Jane's father marrying a Jane MORRIS in 1820. This may be a legitimisation of Jane's parents' marriage or another Jane altogether ???)
Here is the ref for the Jane LAKE/John LINDSAY marriage notice in 1869, in case you hadn't seen it.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13191450
He is from Dubbo and she is the daughter of James LAKE of Kurrajong, Nth Richmond.
Judith
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Gov Macquarie sought to have cohabiting couples marry partly to legitimise their offspring so It would be sensible to look at State Library for these marriages particularly if marriage was not in Sydney Town by Rev Cowper.... clue .... look for TRANSMITTED church records .... MUTCH index found most but not all ..... Cheers JM
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James., Thomas and Miles Lake with parents Miles and Jane are on orphanage record, admitted 21 June 1833 which would fit with father Miles dying in 1832 -
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchhits.aspx?table=Orphan%20Schools&id=24&frm=1&query=Surname:lake
When I have seen these records they have details of when discharged, and details of employer sent to etc. Might give you some clues family after 1833.
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33/227
21 June 1833
The humble petition of Jane LAKE wife of the late Miles LAKE of Windsor
Sheweth that the said James, Thomas and Miles are the children of the said Miles LAKE
That the said Jane LAKE obtains her livlihood by washing and that she has two other children, Henry a boy aged 10 years, and Sarah aged 8 months.
Jane signs as Jane ARTHUR, this is crossed out and she signs again as Jane LAKE.
Three certified copies of the children's baptisms are included:
(no year) James, born 29 Sep, bap. 23 Oct, Father's occupation: Baker, Abode: Windsor.
1828, Thomas, born 28 Jan, bap. 17 Feb, Father's occupation: Baker, Abode: Windsor
1830, Miles, born 6 Aug, bap. 5 Sep, Father's occupation: Baker, Abode: Windsor
Jane MORRIS who married Alexander ARTHUR was transported on the Indespensible in 1809, so she cannot be the mother of Jane. Jane MORRIS/ARTHUR was aged 50 on the 1828 census, so it is likely to be her death in 1848.
Debra :)
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Great finds, Debra and Wivenhoe!
What a sad situation - three taken into care and two others still to feed and look after.
Judith
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If the marriage in 1851 to James KIRKMAN is Jane's daughter Sarah, she would have been around 19 years old and so required permission to marry. This marriage entry might give some clues as to whether or not Jane was still living.
Debra :)
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Hi
I see this hasn't been used for a year so hopefully this information will be new.
1.
Alexander ARTHUR - Arrived 1802 per Atlas - Soldier of the 102nd and Veterans Corp based in Windsor - Died 30 May 1829 at Windsor
Married Jane MORRIS - 26 June 1820, St Johns, Parramatta - Arrived 1808 per Indispensable - Convict at Parramatta Womens Factory - Buried 18 Oct 1848 at Maitland?
Daughter - Jane ARTHUR (No information) Free Settler
2.
Miles LAKE - Arrived 1814 per Earl Spencer - Convict at Parramatta
Married Jane ARTHUR - 06 Dec 1824 at Windsor - Death Unknown
Son - Henry LANGTON (to a teacher) B 06 Jan 1823 at Windsor D 16 June 1904 at Alexandria
Son - James LAKE B 29 Sept 1825 at Windsor M Catherine MANNING 16 Feb 1846 D 01 Nov 1909 at Kerr's Creek
Son - Thomas LAKE B 28 Jan 1828 at Windsor
Son - Miles LAKE B 13 Aug 1830 at Windsor
Daughter - Sarah LAKE B 26 Oct 1832
More information if required, hope this helps.
Regards
Brad Thompson
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Hi
an interesting research.
Brad's post hints at the possibility that JANE ARTHUR may well have been the daughter of Alexander Arthur but possibly from an earlier marriage or relationship.
She may well have been born at sea or shortly after the arrival of the Atlas in Australia; and her mother may well have died in childbirth or shortly thereafter.
If they still existed the records of 102nd and Veterans Corps may hold something relevant.
regartds
Robyn
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Hi there,
Welcome to RChat Brad...
Perhaps you have checked Lachlan Macquarie's diaries, but here's a link to these and to his wife's diaries too.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/worldhistorysources/r/87/whm.html
Cheers, JM
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Marriage Cert
Death Cert
Images Removed: only a small portion of an image may be posted for help with handwriting
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1828 Census
Alexander ARTHUR
Jane ARTHUR nee MORRIS
Image Removed: only a small portion of an image may be posted for help with handwriting
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Hi all
A very interesting topic, I am descended from Jane Lake (nee Arthur) and have done a little research. One thing I have proved is Alexander Arthur is Jane Lake's (nee Arthur) Father. The prove is Jane went to court on the 12th of December 1838 (case Number 333 NSW) , to petition the court to hand over her deceased fathers (Alexander Arthurs) property into her name. The property was Lot 60 Macquarie St Windsor. She also mentioned in her claim that she was his only child. Also on an old map of Windsor dated 1835, it has all the allotment written down and who owned them. This confirms that Alexander Arthur owned lot 60. As a side note, Jane Lake and her husband Miles owned the alotment across the Rd from Jane's Father, Lot 50, a corner block which I have heard rumoured, may of been a bakery in Windsors early days.
As discussed already on this thread, Miles was a convict on arrival in Australia, transported on the Earl Spencer c1813.
Alexander did marry a Jane Morris in 1820 , she was also a convict on arrival and was not Jane Lakes (Arthurs) Mother as dates do not align by many years. Many people get the two Janes mixed up.
Both Miles Lake and his father inlaw are buried St Mathews Windsor.
Hope some of this information Helps
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Welcome, JimWillow!
Let's hope our original poster and subsequent one see your input ;D ;D
Dawn M