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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: garethgriffiths on Thursday 28 June 07 09:06 BST (UK)
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Hi I am having these images cleaned and colourized on the photo restoration pages on this site under 'Taid Jones Army' heading. Please see original scanned photos on those pages if necessary. Thanks.
a) please can anyone tell me which regiment they are in from their cap badges?
b) why is one button black on the man at the front (my Taid Jones)? It was black on the original black and white photo too.
c) also please comment on the eppaulette and shoulder markings if you can?
d) Is Taid Jones a Royal Engineer? Are any of the others?
He was born in Scotland St. Llanrwst and they all come from Conway North Wales as far as I know.
Thanks, regards Gareth
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hi there,it seems your right,that the lone soldier,and the soldier on the right of the three are in fact Royal Engineers.
After a little research,although lm not 100% sure,but lm wondering if the soldier with upside down stripes,is from a household cavalry unit.Hope this is of some help in your research.
Kind Regards
Wizz
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Sorry but Jones (one in the middle) is Royal Engineers. The other two I haven't a clue but the stripes on the arm are possibly good conduct stripes or wound stripes. I'm not an authority on this so someone else will put you right. One thing I do know is that the two either side are not Royal Engineers. The black button has me baffled. All black I can understand but not one.
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Hi all,
This is my first posting! This is so interesting to me, 'cos I have a photo of my uncle which also has one black button on his uniform. If anyone would care to help me with identifying his regiment, etc. I would be so grateful. I've hopefully attached the reverse of the photo too, which gives more information, but I can't find out what happened to him.
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Evidently it signifies that the soldier has lost a relative in the war.
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Hopefully, this is the back of the above photo!
I believe it to be of Albert Ernest Payne, born Wandsworth 1896, but brought up in Gravesend Kent.
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Well obviously taken after the war as it says taken in Cologne. Must have been army of occupation so he never died in the war for one thing. Are you sure that is his name and not the name of his father on the postcard? I can't find an Albert Ernest in the medal index. Plenty of Paynes including an Ernest Albert of the Middlesex Regiment who went on to become an officer. Come to think of it, looking at the photo again it does seem to show him wearing pips on his shoulder. Only guessing so don't take that as gospel.
Medal card of Payne, Ernest Albert
Corps Regiment No Rank
Middlesex Regiment 13383 Private
Middlesex Regiment 13383 Lance Corporal
Middlesex Regiment Second Lieutenant
Date 1914-1920
Catalogue reference WO 372/15
Dept Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Series War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War
Piece Nolan P - Pickering S M
Image contains 1 medal card of many for this collection
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Hi Certacito... and so many thanks for the information. This is just getting curioser and curioser for me. The name is definitely Albert Payne: I have another photo, which must have been taken earlier o/a no black button, of him with his unit. I think it's quite an amazing photo - the faces bearing witness to the stress that the men were under.
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Can you make out what it says on the back of the second photo? Looks like workshop to me and RE which would be Royal Engineers which some of the group definitely are but your Albert isn't. We need a badge expert to tell us what his is. Someone on here should know given time.
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Re the black buttons. I'm given to understand that it denotes the wearer having suffered recent bereavment ( family or close friend)
Re the phot of Payne. Note the number 54090 on the rear.
It could be this Albert E Payne
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=4750507&queryType=1&resultcount=31
Gwil
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Looking at it again it seems to say
23rd Mansher Rang and then Gravesend etc
Could the Mansher be Manchester and therefore the battalion would be 23rd Battalion?
I can't find a Mansher street etc in Gravesend.
Also have a look at this Manchester Badge
(3rd one down)
http://www.britishbadge.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=manchester&osCsid=7cdc83805685c52997ef8d96ca7dff63
Looks similar to me.
Gwil
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Sorry
should read 22nd battalion
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Thanks so much for those links Gwil. It certainly looks like the Manchester regiment badge to me - and a workshop unit within a Royal Engineers company. So grateful to be able to record his service correctly .... knowing absolutely zilch on military matters myself (lol).
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the lad in the two pictures ,is pte,54090 albert,ernest payne,manchester regt,its possible that he was in the labour corps when the picture was taken,this is his lab corps number,581280.
mack
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Thanks Mack - I'm thrilled with the help I'm getting here. Is it possible to find out whether he was drafted into the Second World War?
I had an uncle, known to everyone as Napper, and no-one alive to tell me his real name. He had a massive lump on his neck, and my sister now informs me that this was because he was gassed during the war (but doesn't know which one). Would dearly love torecord him by his proper name.
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gwil,can you post these pictures on our manchester regiment forum,going off whats written on the 2 cards and my knowledge of the manchesters,my guess is that albert was originally in the RE,a few drafts of men from the RE were sent to reinforce the 24th manchester [pioneers] battalion,after the armistice,some of these ex engineers from the 24th batt were exchanged with men from the 22nd manchesters and sent to germany as the occupation force,if you look in the left hand bottom corner of the 2nd card,it says 24th manch,in jan 1919,76 men from the 22nd man regt were exchanged for 101 men from the 24th man regt,nearly all these 101 men were former REs,roy or one of the others on our manchesters forum may be able to add a bit more
mack
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Mack
It was posted by GillyG, not me. Hopefully she will pick up your post.
Gwil
PS
Does anyone know if it's possible to extract all the post re Albert Payne from this thread and put them in new thread with an appropriate title? It seems to have hijacked Gareths initial post re his Taid Jones.This is not an attack/slight on anyone merely an effort to split the two threads whereby each may attract more attention. I've not been around this Forum long enough to know if it happens often but I do know that on others efforts are made to split them.
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Hi Mack,
That is very interesting, and certainly fits in with all the information on the cards, and explain the difference as to why Albert is wearing a different badge to the others - also seems a lot younger than most of the others.
I would be very happy to post the photos on the Manchester regiment forum - particularly as it might help others recognise/identify some of their own relatives in the group. Could you kindly point me in the right direction to do this please, or give me a link. Sorry to be a complete dunce.
And sorry to Gwil for my butting in on Taid Jones.
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Help,
My article has been hijacked, please split away from my Taid Jones.
Thank you.
Gareth