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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: debh on Sunday 24 June 07 14:19 BST (UK)
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I'm really stuck with my O'Neil/O'Neill family in Widnes ???.
I have them on 1881 at 54 Cromwell St and 1891 at Reil St. In 1901 I can find some of the children but not the parents.
I'm looking for Thomas and Mary O'Neil/O'Neill who would be app 56 & 53yo in 1901. I don't know their place of birth other than Ireland. I've tried to find a marriage between then prior to 1870 but haven't been successful. Mary's maiden name was Ward. Of course, they could have been married before coming to England.
In 1901 census I can find 4 of their children (1 Mary is married to Joseph Newall and has 3 of her younger siblings with her, names are Annie, Daniel and Ellen). 2 siblings (Christopher & Thomas) are in Swansea.
I've tried ancestry.co.uk and also the search engines on The Geanealogist but am coming unstuck all of the time.
All suggestions would be very welcome.
Deb
PS have posted this on cheshire board too.
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Does anyone have any suggestions at all? :'( :'(
Deb
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Be patient love ;Dwe have to look through some records first before giving some help ;D I will see if i can find the birth of Mary ward and Thomas O'Neil in Ireland after i work out the year they were born ;Dbut it's a big country :)Will let you know if i find anything.
Celia
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From the I.G.I Ireland
1847 <2> & <5>
Thomas F. O'Neil Born Dublin14th January 1846.
No parents given and no source available :(
Thomas O'Neil Birth 1847 Ireland
Death 20th February 1919
Marriage to Margaret Smith abt 1871 Northumberland Ontario Has source/Batch number.
Thomas O'Neil Born 1848 Ireland Spouse Mary O'Neil Marriage 1870 Ireland. No source
Celia
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Hi Deb,
i see your online, i will look for his wife later.
Celia
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Many thanks Celia - I didn't realise that people would look through records for me. I just thought that I might get some suggestions as how to look next.
Thanks so much for your information - it doesn't look as if I'm going to get much further with this line of the family. I've spoken to someone today who was told by their grandmother that the family were from Wexford but that can't be taken as a definite fact.
Which databases etc did you search to find the Marriage between Thomas & mary in 1870? The 1881 census gives their eldest son John as being born in Widnes app 1868 but of course that could be slightly inaccurate. I could look for a birth cert for him but that wouldn't really help with a marriage between the parents. I know she was Ward before marriage.
Irish research is much harder than I'd realised!
This is my first post to this site, thanks for helping, it's much appreciated.
Deb
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Hi Deb
I forgot to say welcome to rootschat ;)Don't take the marriage of Thomas & Mary as being yours will you, I just copy out the names,years in the places or countries of a persons interest.They can then decided for themselves if there is a connection,but as i said not knowing where in Ireland they/he was born is unfortunate.Don't worry though one day you will find him. I have had three tree's on the go for 6 years and i still don't know where some of them where born ;D The results i found on Family search I.G.I Country Ireland county all,International Geographical Index.The Irish records are at times hard to find,my brother who served in Ireland a few times.Once told me that the building that held many records got bombed while he was there.Then of course you have the different religions. If you have any requests in regard to Ireland best to but them on the ireland board.To keep the countries separate
I've spoken to someone today who was told by their grandmother that the family were from Wexford but that can't be taken as a definite fact.
In regard to your above "always take note but don't always believe ;D Normally to find a marriage people go by the birth of the first child as you probably know.I lot of times though the couple were not married or didn't get married till later some much later :)Or got married someplace you never thought off ;D you have some mixed blood on your tree don't you,all you need now is a Scot ;D
Hope some of this has been of some help
Celia
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/igi/search_IGI.asp?indid=&spouse_id=&color=blue
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Hi Celia
Mixed blood? You could say that! I call myself Welsh but so far only one line of the family is very welsh ;D. The rest hail from Ireland, Suffolk & London. Makes for interesting research though.
I'm still pretty bemused about why I can't find the Thomas & Mary O Neil in 1901. Looks like they just vaporised!
Thanks once again, you've been very kind
Deb
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Quick note,just been going through Ancestry seach england and found a death for Thomas O'Neil born 1848 didnt say where.He was aged 56 when he died so right age, in 1904 Reg in Wigan G.ManchesterApril 1/4 could this be him ??? You could get a check on the 1901 Lancashire census
Celia Night Night
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Hi - I'm not sure this will help but I got here by accident when researching my family who lived at 54 Cromwell Street Widnes in 1901! Spooky. So don't know where the O'Neils had gone but they were not there then.
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Hi, thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
I've found out lots more about my family and know now that both parents had died by 1901.
As your family were in Cromwell St in 1901, would you happen to have a photograph of the street at that time? I would love to see the place. I've visited there and seen pics of neighbouring streets but never Cromwell Street.
Thanks once again.
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Sorry I have nothing at all from that era. I would love to see something too. All I can offer is the information that in 1901 living at 56 Cromwell Street was someone called Baldrick!
My family are proving very difficult to research - Lithuanian/Polish - name changed to Williams - no real record of previous name. :-\
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Hi, thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
I've found out lots more about my family and know now that both parents had died by 1901.
As your family were in Cromwell St in 1901, would you happen to have a photograph of the street at that time? I would love to see the place. I've visited there and seen pics of neighbouring streets but never Cromwell Street.
Thanks once again.
Maybe an email or two to this site may help. http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/Widnes/Widnes%20Welcome.htm
In the meantime, I'll ask my sister-in-law (she was born and lived in Widnes for 45 years), if she has any recollections of the area.
Steve. :)
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Thank you Steve ;D
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Thank you Steve ;D
Hi Deb,
I've just talked to my sister-in-law. She says that the houses were mostly back to back terraced houses. If you look on google streetview maps, and look for Mersey Road in Widnes, that will give you an idea of what the houses looked like.
Also, she said, if the house had a bay window, they were 3 bedroomed and the others were 'two up, two down'.
Her Grandfather James Thompson, was the Landlord of 'The George' Public house in Pitt St. but when that was escapes my sister-in-laws memory.
Unfortunately, Cromwell St. was redeveloped for Industrial and Retail warehousing etc, although the street name still exists. The area was known as The South Bank and includes St.Mary's Church which is on the Mersey river bank.
Interestingly, there used to be a transport bridge across the Mersey before the 'New Bridge' was built. It went out of commission in the very early 1960's. There is quite a few photo's of it about if you google it. I had quite a few trips on that in my younger days...... http://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/3166056/Hulton-Archive
Hope this helps a little bit.
Steve. :)
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Hi - I grew up in Widnes in the 50's and 60's - I remember that area being called 'Lugsdale' which always amused me. there is still a Lugsdale Road nearby.
I google'd Old Widnes photos and found tons of them
Janice
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If your interested I can scan a section from a map I have of 1905 Widnes. Cromwell Street was a one sided street in that the houses faced the ten foot high wall of what was Boltons Foundry. When I worked at a local ironmongers in the 60's the housing in the area was being demolished.
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that would be great. There is a religious (I think) meeting place there now called 'The Foundry' newish building on the place where the old foundry was.
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Ah you foxed me there, you want the area Newtown, have you a street in particular because I did get some street images when I last visited the library, I might have the street. If not will send you a scan of the area. Can you pm me with your email address so that I can send it to you
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Er - don't know - I would like the Cromwell road area I think.
The foundry bit was something I have seen on a recent visit to Widnes.
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I have been lurking on this site for a while and am amazed at the knowledge and help provided. I have never been able to help before, but being born and bred in Widnes it is my specialist subject.
Bucksboy said "houses mostly back to back", In my experience I have only seen back to back housing ie sharing a rear wall in Yorkshire, Widnes is mostly terraced housing.
"A bay window means three bedrooms" sorry this is incorrect I was born in a three bedroom terraced house in Luton St. It certainly didn't have a bay window.
Looking at the 1907 map of Widnes I would say the houses in Cromwell St are three bedroom as they are of a similar size to the houses in Luton street. The houses in Nelson Street look like two up two down.
"The area was known as South Bank and includes St Marys Church" Sorry the area is known as West Bank, my late mother was a fierce West banker.
There is some confusion over the Foundry, Widnes Foundry was in Lugsdale Rd it was a different foundry facing the houses in Cromwell St.
Jangeo said" I worked in a local hardware ironmongers" was it Handley and Becks on the corner of Hutchinson street? I am sure this was where the Two Ronnies got their fork handles sketch from. :)
algieshing
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Yes I thought it was West Bank too. 'The Foundry' I refer to is in Lugsdale Road.
I remember Hanley and Becks because many years ago our next door neighbour worked for them..
I spent the first 21 years of my life in Widnes and my mum still lives there.
I have no recollection of anything ever being called South Bank.
Janice2215
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I did indeed work for about eight months at Handley & Beck in the 60's, it was an experience in the ironmonger trade that stayed with me all through my working life. It was an ironmongers the like you will never see again and the staff who I at the time worked with were very good. :)
To Janboo, what was the last name of your neighbour that worked for them. The older staff had been employed there man and boy.
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He was called Kelly but I know he left to do something else, maybe lat 50's. I always remember him in a brown overall/coat thing.
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That person was not there when I was employed. However his name would have been chalked on a ceiling upstairs along with the many other workers who had passed through the business. In the main apart from four long term employees staff did not remain long due to the poor pay, No money in ironmongery they used to say when pay was mentioned.
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Janboo
Are you still in UK ?
Algieshing
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Yes - in the Midlands
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Hi, My ancestors lived at 54 Cromwell St too.....infact in the 1901 census Baldrick is actually my grt, grt grandfather his wife, daughter and son in law lived there too.
I have copies of a report conducted back then regarding the state of the houses and is very descriptive regarding the houses .......there was an outbreak of disease in the street and a number of deaths as a result...which ties in with some of the deaths of children related to my ancestors.....the slum housing was pulled down and people rehoused or houses updated as a result ie toileting and proper drainage...email me at * and I can email you copies of the report I found.
There are some photos of the area too....
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Bucksboy said "houses mostly back to back", In my experience I have only seen back to back housing ie sharing a rear wall in Yorkshire, Widnes is mostly terraced housing.
The strict definition of back-to-back houses is that they share a rear wall, like algieshing says. However, in recent years the term has generally been used to describe terraced houses with their backs facing each other but separated by an alleyway. There were many of these in my home town of Warrington and in many other northern towns, including Widnes I believe.
Jim
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In 1901 my grt grandparents lived at 54 Cromwell st. There were 2 adults, 4 children and 3 boarders. It also says 54 Cromwell St housed another family as well Joseph Hampson, his wife and daughter (he became the godfather of one of my family) not their real name as they came from Lithuania (then called Poland/Russia).
So not sure what size the house was but they squeezed a few in!
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Hello, I think that your relatives surname could be Valinskas