RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: Sunnyhill on Wednesday 20 June 07 12:18 BST (UK)
-
Would be pleased to hear from anyone who can add to these.
David
1 Archibald Hayes
Birth: c1790, Killinchy? Co Down
Death: pre 1841
Children [all b Ballymacreely]:
Eleanor (1812-1897) m John Saulters 1853 Ravara, Killinchy
Elizabeth (?1812-)
Jean (?1812-)
Mary (1822-)
Margaret Ann (1824-)
James Gourley (1827-)
David Lowry (1829-)
Archibald (1831-)
Robert (Died as Child) (1833-)
1.1 Eleanor Hayes
Birth: 1812, Ballymacreelly
Death: 28 Mar 1897
Burial: Dunmurry
Spouse: John Saulters
Birth: 1814, Belfast? Ireland
Death: 16 Aug 1902
Marr: 22 Dec 1853, Ravara Non Subscribing Presbyterian Church, Killinchy Parish, Newtonards district, Co Down
1.6 James Gourley Hayes
Birth: 1827, Ballymacreelly
Birth: c1840, Co. Down
Occ: Farmer
unsure whether father of Archie but seems likely as his sister Eleanor is Archie’s aunt.
Spouse: Taylor?
Children: Archie (1867-1933)
Mary (1868-)
1.6.1 Archie Hayes
Birth: 1867, Co. Down
Death: 18 Nov 1933, Fortfield Cottage, Dunmurry
Burial: Dunmurry Non-Subscibing Presbyterian Cemetery
Occ: 1930: Gardener
On son John’s birth certificate Archie’s middle name given as Taylor - may be his mother’s maiden name
On Archie’s grave his name is ‘Salters’?? - may have been raised by Aunt Ellen [Eleanor],1803-1897, and her husband John Salters/Saulters of Upper Falls,1812-1902, both b. Dunmurry
Spouse: Mary Margaret Campbell
Birth: 4 Dec 1866, HillHall, Dunmurry
Death: 16 Sep 1951, Fortfield Cottage, Dunmurry
Children: Ellen (1897-1985)
John Campbell (1906-)
Kathleen [Catherine?] (1901-1922)
Minnie [Mary] (1896-)
Robert (1903-)
John (1904-)
1.6.1.1 Ellen Hayes
Birth: 5 Mar 1897, Suffolk, Belfast, Ireland
Death: 29 Jan 1985, Dunmurry
Burial: Dunmurry Non-Subscibing Presbyterian Cemetery
Occ: Dressmaker
Spouse: Francis Cassells
Birth: 24 Nov 1892, Castle Lane, Lurgan
Death: 27 Feb 1969, Dunmurry
1.6.1.2 John Campbell Hayes
Birth: 21 Mar 1906
Spouse: Georgina [‘Ena’?] Pell
Marr: 15 Oct 1930, Townsend Street Presbyterian Church, Shankill Parish, Co. Antrim
1.6.1.3 Kathleen [Catherine?] Hayes
Birth: 27 May 1901, Dunmurry, Belfast
Death: 1922
1.6.1.4 Minnie [Mary] Hayes
Birth: 1 May 1896, Dunmurry
Spouse: John McGrath
Birth: c1895, Belfast?
Death: post 1951
1.6.1.5 Robert Hayes
Birth: 18 Nov 1903, Dunmurry
Spouse: Annie
Birth: c1905, Belfast?
1.6.1.6 John Hayes
Birth: 6 Dec 1904, Dunmurry
Death: as infant?
1.6.2 Mary Hayes
Birth: 1868, Co Down
-
Ballymacreelly baptisms [Hay/Hays/Hayes] between 1812 and 1837.
Susan of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 Jun. 1812.
James of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 20 Apr 1814
John of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 May 1815
Margaret of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 20 Jun 1820
William of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 08 Oct 1826
Thomas of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 Aug 1832
Martha of Thomas Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 Jun 1837
Annabella of Thomas Hay Ballymacreelly, baptised 06 Feb 1835
Robert of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 Aug 1812.
Elizabeth of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 10 Nov 1812
John of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 31 Jan 1814
Jane of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 28 Sep 1814
Mary Osborne Clark of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 05 Nov 1815
Mary of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 25 Oct 1816
Thomas Osborne of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 02 Jun 1818
George of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 02 Jun 1818
Sarah of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 23 Nov. 1820
Robert of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 May 1821
Thomas Taylor of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 04 Dec 1822
Elinor Gourley of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 11 Aug 1823
Rebecca of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 18 Nov 1825
Catherine of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 11 Aug 1828
Agnes of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 03 Feb 1831
James of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 18 Jan 1837
James of Hugh Jun. Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 23 Nov 1812
Elizabeth of Hugh Jun. Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 Jun 1819
John of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 15 Dec 1813
Rowley of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 Mar 1816
George of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 15 Feb 1819
Mary of James Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 Jun 1815
Jane of William Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 05 Feb 1813
Ellen of William Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 02 May 1819.
Thomas of Robert Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 15 Sep 1815
John of Robert Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 01 May 1817
James of Robert Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 21 Nov 1818
Robert of Robert Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 11 Apr 1823.
Mary of Robert Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 05 Dec 1824
Agnes of Robert Hay Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 Apr 1827
Sarah Mallard of Robert hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 11 Sep 1829
Archibald of Robert Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 Nov 1832
Jane of Samuel Hay Jun., Ballymacreelly, baptised 01 Jul 1816
Ursla of Samuel Hay Jun., Ballymacreelly, baptised 03 Feb 1818
John of Samuel Hay Jun. , Ballymacreelly, baptised 28 Dec 1818
George of Samuel Hay Jun. , Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 Aug 1821
Jane of Samuel Hay Jun. , Ballymacreelly, baptised 27 Jan 1824.
Margaret of Samuel Hay Jun. , Ballymacreelly, baptised 29 Apr 1825
Elinor of Samuel Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 14 Dec 1827
Frew of David Hay Ballymacreelly, baptised 17 Mar 1828
Samuel of Savage Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 11 Mar 1832
William of Savage Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 16 Feb 1835
Prudence of Savage Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 01 Dec 1837
John Law of James Hay Jun Ballymacreelly, baptised 20 Mar 1832
Thomas of James Hay Jun. Ballymacreelly, baptised 15 Oct 1834
Sarah Osborne of Hugh Hay, Ballymacreelly, baptised 28 Jun 1835
-
Here are two threads about the Hayes of Killinchy. I also have a list of marriages etc including Hayes, Morrows, Campbells, Mawhinneys etc
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general/5037.3.1.1/mb.ashx
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general/14811/mb.ashx
-
Joy! I have been sent baptism and birth records for Archibald Hayes, and his mother's name :D [See below]
His mother was Mary Jane Skelly [her father David]. Then found 5 siblings >>
Archibald b 5 Aug 1857 Ballyagherty / Saintfield
Jane Stewart Hayes b 14 Jan 1865 Ballyagherty / Saintfield
Eleanor Maria Hayes b 21 May 1867 Ballyagherty / Saintfield
Sarah Gillespie Hayes b 24 April 1869 Ballyagherty / Saintfield
Mary Anne Hayes b 27 May 1871 Ballyagherty / Saintfield
James Hayes b 31 Jan 1873 Ballyagherty / Saintfield
Mary Jane Skelly m James Hayes 28 Dec 1855 in Magheradrool but can't find this marriage on NI Direct. Can't find other records for his siblings or parents. ???
Transcript of baptismal record:
This is to certify that Archibald Hayes, son of James Hayes of Ballyagherty and Mary Jane Skelly his wife, was baptised by the Reverend Samuel Hamilton on the 16th day of August 1857; that at the baptism of said Archibald Hayes, the date of his birth was stated to be the 5th day of August 1857; and that record of these facts is made in the Baptismal Register of this Congregation of First Saintfield, in connexion with the general Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, now in my custody.
Given at Saintfield, this 24th day of August, 1895
Stewart Dickson, Minister
-
from Tithes Applotment Books 1823-1837 source index:- Irish Genealogy Hub. The relevant original books are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast [I have made an index to the hubs index ]
you mention
Ballymacreely, Killinchy civil parish
Dunmurry is in Drumbeg civil parish
Killinchy is also a civil parish
The TAB for NI contain 97 entries for Hayes/Hays but the only relevant one for your interest that I could find is
Hayes, Samuel, Jr.-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
having read more of your interests
Hay, Archbd.-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Archibd.-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, David-Townland: Ballow Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Hugh-Townland: Carigullan Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, James-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, James-Townland: Carigullan Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Robt.-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Saml.-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Samuel-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Samuel, Jr.-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Thomas-Townland: Ballow Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
Hay, Thomas-Townland: Ballymacreely Year: 1833-Killinchy-Down-
the nearest Salter/Saulter are
Salters, J.-Townland : Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Salters, J.-Townland: Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
Salters, Jas.-Townland : Black Mountain Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Salters, Jas.-Townland: Black Mountain Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
Salters, Jno.-Townland : Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Salters, Jno.-Townland: Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
Salters, P.-Townland : Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Salters, P.-Townland: Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
Salters, Thos.-Townland : Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Salters, Thos.-Townland: Ballymurphy Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
Salters, Wm.-Townland : Edenderry Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Salters, Wm.-Townland: Edenderry Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
now I spot you have Saintfield entries
Hay, Robert Townland: Creevy Lough Gare Year: 1834
Hay, Samuel Townland: Creevy Lough Gare Year: 1834
Hay, Samuel Townland: Leggigowan Year: 1834
Hay, Widow Townland: Creevy Lough Gare Year: 1834
Hoping some of this useful to you
goodluck in your quest
-
Thanks very much BallyaltikilliganG
-
Mary Jane Skelly m James Hayes 28 Dec 1855 in Magheradrool but can't find this marriage on NI Direct.
Could this be the marriage with James as Hay not Hayes
James Hay 1855
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01izq/
Mary Jane Skelly 1855
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01izr/
For some reason the links came out very long.
Both Quarter 1
Vol 4
Page 691
-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGFW-XVR
-
Griffiths Valuations show Archibald Hay,1863 at Saintfield
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
edited to add also shows David Skelly at Saintfield
-
Mary Jane Skelly m James Hayes 28 Dec 1855 in Magheradrool but can't find this marriage on NI Direct.
Could this be the marriage with James as Hay not Hayes
James Hay 1855
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01izq/
Mary Jane Skelly 1855
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01izr/
For some reason the links came out very long.
Both Quarter 1
Vol 4
Page 691
That's the one thanks - and thank you dathai
-
This is my family - baptised in Killinchy Presbyterian Church
Elinor of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 12 Feb, 1812
Mary of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 28 Aug, 1822
Margaret Ann of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 24 Dec 1824
James Gourley of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 23 Mar 1827
David Lowry of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Apr 1829
Archibald of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 19 Jul 1831
Robert of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Oct 1833.
I also found a record for a Samuel Gourley Hayes, father Archibald, baptised 23 Mar 1827 in Killinchy Presbyterian
In 1835 there was a split in Killinchy Presbyterian Church which resulted in a number of the Congregation leaving and forming Ravara. There is a list or 'Census' of members of the new Church which was dated 1841. It included Archibald Hayes plus James, Elinor, Elizabeth, Mary, Jean, Margaret, Archibald, David, & James, living in the townland of Ballymacreelly.
-
Party 1 Name JAMES HAY
Party 2 Name MARY SKELLY
Date of Event 28 December 1855
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09488/5438714.pdf
Fathers Archibald Hay, farmer and David Skelly, farmer.
James Hay residing at Ballyagherty
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-upper/saintfield/ballyagherty/
Mary Jane Skelly residing at Creevyargon
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-upper/kilmore/creevyargon/
KG
-
Thank you :) Have to visit these places if and when I get back there.
Party 1 Name JAMES HAY
Party 2 Name MARY SKELLY
Date of Event 28 December 1855
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09488/5438714.pdf
Fathers Archibald Hay, farmer and David Skelly, farmer.
James Hay residing at Ballyagherty
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-upper/saintfield/ballyagherty/
Mary Jane Skelly residing at Creevyargon
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-upper/kilmore/creevyargon/
KG
-
Just to add: :)
It included Archibald Hayes plus James, Elinor, Elizabeth, Mary, Jean, Margaret, Archibald, David, & James, living in the townland of Ballymacreelly.
Ballymacreelly townland
https://www.townlands.ie/down/dufferin/killinchy/ballymacreelly/
KG
-
I have found a mention on Ros Davies site that James HOGG died 1816 aged 62y ( b abt 1854) and his wife Susannah HAY died 1808 aged 46y ( b abt 1762) both of Ballymacreely, and buried Killinchy First Presbyterian Church.
I believe these are my ancestors who may have had a son Jacob HOGG and a son, James HOGG. If I am on the right track, Jacob HOGG was a baker in Ballynahinch. William BARR of Ballynahinch left 40 quid to Jacob's daughter ' Sally' in his 1809 Will. I found 2 daughters for sure:
Sarah, b abt 1807 who married John HARPER ( I have 2 DNA matches to this line) ( she died New Cumnock, Ayrshire, have death cert which states Jacobs wife was Jane McCALLOW/McCALLA ), and
Eleanor HOGG who married, first, James NOUGHER/NOGHER/NOCHER who was murdered in 1850. Eleanor remarried James JOHNSTON 1856. I have found some children for her, and her Will
There may also have been a daughter, Deborah HOGG b abt 1803 who married William HARPER. She died 1896 in Clintnagooland. I have found a number of children for her.
There is probably a daughter Susannah HOGG as well as that name was a constant in many descendants family lines including my GGrandmother born in England 1856.
Another Deborah HOGG born about 1820 married Hugh McATEER ( I have many dna matches to this line on Chromosome 18). This Deborah may be the daughter of James HOGG, a weaver, possibly of Long Stone ( 1819 Directory).
I also have dna matches on chromosome 18 for Robert LENNOX and his wife who is shown as Anne HARE, born abt 1765 in Trees online, however I am wondering if the name might be HAY/HAYE/HAYES etc.
I would love to find more details on any of these folk. The LDS offices are closed due to covid, so I can't order any films.
Any help is much appreciated.
Cheers
Jo ( Australia)
-
There may also have been a daughter, Deborah HOGG b abt 1803 who married William HARPER. She died 1896 in Clintnagooland. I have found a number of children for her.
Deborah Harper, aged 93, died on 10th October 1896 at Clintnagooland. Her son, William Thomas was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1896/05886/4669639.pdf
William Thomas with his family in 1901 census.
Residents of a house 10 in Clontonagullion (Dromara, Down)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Dromara/Clontonagullion/1237979/
Clontanagullion townland (probably Clintnagooland).
https://www.townlands.ie/down/kinelarty/magherahamlet/clontanagullion/
KG
-
Eleanor remarried James JOHNSTON 1856.
Party 1 Name JAMES JOHNSTON
Party 2 Name ELLEANOR NOGHER
Date of Event 13 September 1856
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09508/5446217.pdf
KG
-
Sunnyhill with you living in Dunmurry and no doubt others much further afield, have you reached the point of illustrating your family history, if so have you seen the 1830ish and 1860 OS 6inch to the mile maps for Ballymacreelly townland, the later possibly showing the boundaries of the homesteads etc ?
and the satellite or street view, obtainable through http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ map references or google maps
and then where the spouse or partner lived etc
Good luck onwards and may you keep getting help from others
-
Sunnyhill with you living in Dunmurry and no doubt others much further afield, have you reached the point of illustrating your family history, if so have you seen the 1830ish and 1860 OS 6inch to the mile maps for Ballymacreelly townland, the later possibly showing the boundaries of the homesteads etc ?
and the satellite or street view, obtainable through http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ map references or google maps
and then where the spouse or partner lived etc
Good luck onwards and may you keep getting help from others
No, but that looks great thanks! I haven't lived in Dunmurry since 1959 but still there in spirit :)
-
Many thanks for those links Kiltaglassan. That is an excellent site.
I am wondering if anyone knows whether records for marriages in the 1700's are still available somewhere?
Regards
Jo
-
This is my family - baptised in Killinchy Presbyterian Church
Elinor of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 12 Feb, 1812
Mary of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 28 Aug, 1822
Margaret Ann of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 24 Dec 1824
James Gourley of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 23 Mar 1827
David Lowry of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Apr 1829
Archibald of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 19 Jul 1831
Robert of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Oct 1833.
I also found a record for a Samuel Gourley Hayes, father Archibald, baptised 23 Mar 1827 in Killinchy Presbyterian
In 1835 there was a split in Killinchy Presbyterian Church which resulted in a number of the Congregation leaving and forming Ravara. There is a list or 'Census' of members of the new Church which was dated 1841. It included Archibald Hayes plus James, Elinor, Elizabeth, Mary, Jean, Margaret, Archibald, David, & James, living in the townland of Ballymacreelly.
I have a copy of a rental for Ballymacreely 1811-1812 (original creased)
1. Reps of Samuel Hay 92a-1r-39p rent £51-10-0 for 3 lives renewable forever from 18 June 1752
26. Thomas Hay 6a-30p rent £5-12-6 3 lives & 31 years from Nov 1804
30. James Hay 5a-2r-30p rent £9-0-4 from 1804
48. Wm Gourly 4a-3r-10p rent £5-2-0 one life & 21 years from 1793
In addition there is a marriage in Killinchy Presbyterian -
27 April 1835 James Hay of Ballymacreely son of Archibald Hay married Sarah Armour
Witnesses - Thomas Hay, Ballymacreely & Samuel Osbourne
James Hay might be the brother of your Archibald Hay jun?
-
Thanks very much, great information. Yes, I have James b abt 1810 m Sarah Armour as likely brother of Archibald 'jnr'.
I have this record:
1836 Register of families of Killinchy Presbyterian Church.
There is a reference for Archibald Hay in Ballymacreely. Underneath his name is Thomas (35), James and Sarah bracketed together and then underneath that a child Catherine (1 ½ )
This is my family - baptised in Killinchy Presbyterian Church
Elinor of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 12 Feb, 1812
Mary of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 28 Aug, 1822
Margaret Ann of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 24 Dec 1824
James Gourley of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 23 Mar 1827
David Lowry of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Apr 1829
Archibald of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 19 Jul 1831
Robert of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Oct 1833.
I also found a record for a Samuel Gourley Hayes, father Archibald, baptised 23 Mar 1827 in Killinchy Presbyterian
In 1835 there was a split in Killinchy Presbyterian Church which resulted in a number of the Congregation leaving and forming Ravara. There is a list or 'Census' of members of the new Church which was dated 1841. It included Archibald Hayes plus James, Elinor, Elizabeth, Mary, Jean, Margaret, Archibald, David, & James, living in the townland of Ballymacreelly.
I have a copy of a rental for Ballymacreely 1811-1812 (original creased)
1. Reps of Samuel Hay 92a-1r-39p rent £51-10-0 for 3 lives renewable forever from 18 June 1752
26. Thomas Hay 6a-30p rent £5-12-6 3 lives & 31 years from Nov 1804
30. James Hay 5a-2r-30p rent £9-0-4 from 1804
48. Wm Gourly 4a-3r-10p rent £5-2-0 one life & 21 years from 1793
In addition there is a marriage in Killinchy Presbyterian -
27 April 1835 James Hay of Ballymacreely son of Archibald Hay married Sarah Armour
Witnesses - Thomas Hay, Ballymacreely & Samuel Osbourne
James Hay might be the brother of your Archibald Hay jun?
-
1836 Register of families of Killinchy Presbyterian Church.
There is a reference for Archibald Hay in Ballymacreely. Underneath his name is Thomas (35), James and Sarah bracketed together and then underneath that a child Catherine (1 ½ )
How do you interpret the above?
Archibald Hay (jun) head of household
Thomas Hay a brother?
James & Sarah Hay married couple with a dau Catherine 1½
I notice children given the names Lowry & Gourly - perhaps Archibald Hay's wife or mother had one of these surnames?
-
1836 Register of families of Killinchy Presbyterian Church.
There is a reference for Archibald Hay in Ballymacreely. Underneath his name is Thomas (35), James and Sarah bracketed together and then underneath that a child Catherine (1 ½ )
How do you interpret the above?
Archibald Hay (jun) head of household
Thomas Hay a brother?
James & Sarah Hay married couple with a dau Catherine 1½
I notice children given the names Lowry & Gourly - perhaps Archibald Hay's wife or mother had one of these surnames?
Yes, that's all how I interpret it, with Sarah being Sarah Armour
-
I have had a look at the Tithe book for Killinchy - 21st October 1833 (FIN/5/A/179)
Ballymacreely
266: Samuel Hayes Sen - 7a (10s 1d)
269: Samuel Hay jnr - 2a, 1r (3sh)
270: Arch'd Hay - 3a, 1r (blank)
273: Thomas Hay - 6a, 2r, 32p (10sh, 9d)
309: Samuel Hay & Co - 41a, 2r, 38p (£1-3-35)
314: James Hay & partner - 32a-1r-15p (£2-11-3)
315: James Hay - 12a, 12 (13sh, 7d)
316: Arch'd Hay & Co. - 16a, 1p (£1-4-7)
I think historically you are talking about one Hay family here most likely all related to varying degrees. What is interesting are the groupings of the farms.
I'm not sure if there was one or two Archibald Hays in this survey.
But Archibald 270 is beside Samuel jun 269 suggests a connection.
Also the grouping of 314-316 between James & Archibald Hay.
Sometimes larger farms were subdivided between sons - therefore - the grouping pattern is important.
-
Great, thanks very much. I will check and see if I can place them. :)
I have had a look at the Tithe book for Killinchy - 21st October 1833 (FIN/5/A/179)
Ballymacreely
266: Samuel Hayes Sen - 7a (10s 1d)
269: Samuel Hay jnr - 2a, 1r (3sh)
270: Arch'd Hay - 3a, 1r (blank)
273: Thomas Hay - 6a, 2r, 32p (10sh, 9d)
309: Samuel Hay & Co - 41a, 2r, 38p (£1-3-35)
314: James Hay & partner - 32a-1r-15p (£2-11-3)
315: James Hay - 12a, 12 (13sh, 7d)
316: Arch'd Hay & Co. - 16a, 1p (£1-4-7)
I think historically you are talking about one Hay family here most likely all related to varying degrees. What is interesting are the groupings of the farms.
I'm not sure if there was one or two Archibald Hays in this survey.
But Archibald 270 is beside Samuel jun 269 suggests a connection.
Also the grouping of 314-316 between James & Archibald Hay.
Sometimes larger farms were subdivided between sons - therefore - the grouping pattern is important.
-
Hi Gortinanima
Going through my records of Hayes from Killinchy this is what I came up with.
In summary, possibly Archibald b 1772, brothers ?? Thomas, James and Samuel, and son Archibald. That leaves two Samuels who seem to be father and son, and another James [maybe son of one of his brothers].
I assume to be on the list they are most likely over 30 years?
Possible matches from my records:
Samuel Snr and Jnr
1 Samuel 1757 - 1842 m Elizabeth Frew, children Catherine 1790, Robert Lowry 1791 and Samuel 1790
2 Samuel 1790 - see 1
3 Samuel 1810 - 1887 father Thomas b abt 1780, Samuel m Jane Hay 1839
4 Samuel 1770 - son David b 1800
Arch
1 Arch Hamilton Hay b 1811 - 1864 USA father James b 1779 brother James b 1810
2 Arch Snr b 1772
3 Arch Jnr b abt 1790 son of Arch b 1772 and father of my James Gourley Hayes b abt 1827
Thomas
1 Thomas b abt 1810 m Mary McMillan? 1837
2 Thomas b abt 1805 son Frew Hayes b 1835? Maybe same as 1
3 Thomas b abt 1801 likely son of Archibald b 1772
4 Thomas b abt 1780 - father of Samuel b 1810 as above also James 1814-1874
James
1 James b abt 1810 m Sarah Armour - father Arch b 1772
2 James b abt 1779 father of another James b abt 1810 and Arch b 1811
3 James b abt 1810 son of James b abt 1779
4 James b abt 1814 father Thomas b 1780
5 James b abt 1800 children George 1832 and Prudence 1834
6 James b abt 1790 maybe m Elizabeth Gourley children Mary Osborne Clarke Hays 1815, Thomas Osborne Hays 1818, Thomas Taylor Hay 1822, Ellinor Gourley Hay 1823 and others
Possibly fitting tithe records:
266 - Samuel b 1757
269 - Samuel Jnr b 1790
270 - Arch. B 1772
273 - Thomas b 1780 - maybe brother of Arch b 1772 …….. or 1801 [son of Arch b 1772]
309 - Samuel b 1770 - maybe brother of Arch b 1772 or b 1810 [son of Thomas b 1780] - could be too young
314 - James b abt 1810 [son of Arch b 1772] … could be too young [or son of Thomas b 1780]
315 - James b 1779 - maybe brother of Arch b 1772
316 - Arch Jnr b abt 1790 son of Arch b 1772
-
From Registry of Deeds - a number of Hay deeds were registered in Dublin in 1804 - below are some shorthand notes I made when researching Ballymacreely townland --
559/261/3774490
Deed registered 21 March 1804
A memorial of a deed dated 19 March 1796 & made between Samuel Hay of Ballymacreely & John Hay son to said Samuel Hay concerning land in possession of James Gourly & formerly possessed by James Frew, Michael & Widow Dumphrey, Wm Clarkey & Widow Auld held & occupied by said John Hay containing 8 acres, 3 rood with 12 acres moss
WD & WM - Hugh Hay, Ballymacreely farmer & Bryan Doran, Belfast Attorney
560/187/374492
Registered 9 March 1804
A memorial of a lease bearing date 9 March 1804 & made between John Hay of Ballymacreely, farmer & Hugh Hay of Ballymacreely concerning lands in possession of James Hay & Robert Hay bounded by George Aud jun, Logan's part, Hugh Hay senior, Samuel Hay jun, Alex Wilson & Hugh Hay jun
WD & WM - Bryan Duran, Belfast, clerk & James Anderson of Killinchy
570/36/379340
Deed registered 8 Nov 1804
A memorial of indented deed of 15 Dec 1797 & made between Samuel Hayes of Ballymacreely farmer & James Gourley of Ballymacreely farmer -- land Ballymacreely in his actual possession & his wife Jane Gorley orse Hayes for lives of said Samuel Hays
Witness to deed -Wm Robinson of Raffrey, weaver & Wm Gourley Ballymacreely, farmer
Witnesses to memorial - said Wm Gourley & Michael Jennings of Downpatrick, writing clerk
-
Registered deeds continued - Ballymacreely
521/452/343302
Registered 25 Jan 1800
A mem of a deed dated 20 Jan 1800 & made between James McConnell of Ballymacreely, farmer & Savage Lowry of Ballow Gent in consideration for the sum of £417 did assign that portion of Ballymacreely containing 9a, 3r, 30 p & Bounded on the north by the old road to Killinchy to the East by Sam & John Hays lands; to south by Rev Hamilton Frail's & west by the late James McConnel's for lives (not named):
WD & WM - Richard Keown, Gent & Ber'd Ranaghan, yeoman Downpatrick
595/412/408652
Registered 3 May 1808
A memorial of a deed 13 Aril 1796 & made between Samuel Hays sen of Ballymacreely & Samuel Hays jun his son -- land -- lying alongside Thomas Osborn's -- meadow of 9a, 2r, 13p at yearly rent of £4-8d together with that farm of land lately possessed by Thomas Hays brother of the said Samuel Hays sen, rent £5-13sh
WD & WM - Wm Clark & James Anderson & Michael Connor of Belfast writing clerk
(note - a deed dated 18 Dec 1764 & registered 13 Feb 1766 & made between Francis Eddins the elder & Wm Eddins of Ballymacreely 11 acres cunningham measure was bounded on one side by Thomas Hay).
595/513/408654
Registered 13 May 1808
A memorial of a deed 26 Feb 1805 and made between Samuel Hays sen & Samuel Hays junior his son - concerning lad intended to be given to his son James Hay in America containing 9a, 2r and also the farm occupied by James Conolly known by the name of soldier James Hay containing 12a, 1r in Ballymacreely rent £8:0:8
WD - John & Hugh Hay Ballymacreely
WM - said John Hay & Michael Connor, Belfast
-
Hay deeds Ballymacreely continued
145/526/99812 (this is the earliest deed with reference to Hay family)
Registered 7 Aug 1751
A mem of a deed dated 5 April made between Michael Echlin & Samuel Hay, Ballymacreely farmer - land in possession of James Hay -- for 3 lives or 100 years -- lives of said Samuel Hay, Thomas Hay & Hugh Hay brothers to said Samuel Hay - rent £24
WD & WM - Hugh Echlin of Echlin's Grove & James Hay of Ballymacreely, farmer
155/377/105122
Registered 3 Oct 1752
A memorial of lease & release 17 & 18 Jun 1752 and made between Michael Echlin & Samuel Hay of Ballymacreely, farmer -- concerning a parcel of land possessed by said Samuel Hay -- and also that parcel possessed by James Hay father to the said Samuel Hay for the lives of Hugh Hay, James Hay, John Hay brother and sons to the said Samuel Hay.
WD & WM - John Moor Ballybredock & Henry Willey, Killyleagh, merchant
(Note - looks like James Hay is the progenitor of the Ballymacreely family)
568/479/383800
Registered 16 Ap 1815
A deed of conveyance dated 14 April 1805 & made between Hugh Hay of Ballymacreely, farmer & James Gourly farmer of same place -- in consideration of £120 -- land in Ballymacreely in possession of James Hay & Robert Hay bounded by George & James Logan's part, Hugh Hay senior & Samuel Hay jun, Alexander Willson & Hugh Hay junior's part -- containing 10a, 1r & also part of the rocks in possession of James, Hugh & Robert Hays containing 2acres at yearly rent £3-8sh
WD & WM - Richard Keown & Michael Jennings, Downpatrick.
-
Final deeds Hay of Ballymacreely
578/273/388
Registered 3 Nov 1805
A memorial of a deed 18 July 1799 & made between Samuel Hay of Ballymacreely, Killinchy farmer & James Hay son of John Hay of Ballymacreely --Samuel Hay did make over unto said James Hay an annual sum of £2-6-10 for & during natural life of said James Hay
WD & WM - Wm Robinson, weaver of Raffrey & John Hay of Ballymacreely, farmer
578/273/388536
Registered 23 Nov 1805
A memorial of a lease dated 17 July 1799 & made between Samuel Hay of Ballymacreely farmer & Wm McGamley of Ballymacreely, shoemaker -- land surveyed containing 4 acres and a half acre of bog & then in possession of Wm Gormley for & during natural lives of Hugh, James & John Hay of Ballymacreely yearly rent of £5-1-2
WD & WM - Hugh Hay Ballymacreely farmer & Wm Robinson, Raffrey weaver
(Note McGamley & Gormly used interchangeably)
574/545/3920034
Registered 19 April 1805
A memorial of a deed 24 Nov 1790 & made between Hugh Hay, Ballymacreely & John Hay his brother of Ballymacreely -- land 3a, 16 p -- for lives of James Hays, George Hays & Hugh Hays, 3 sons of said John Hays --annual rent £3-17-4
WD & WM - Wm Clarke Ballymacreely & Dan Hawkins, Ballymacreely & Geo Logan of Ballow & Richd Keown
-
There is an Ancestry record of the marriage of David Hay to Ann Hay. Unfortunately though I have details of the fathers and witnesses I can’t see where I got them from! Normally I would only record those if I had seen the original record but 1827 is too early for records on IrishGenealogy site where I usually find them.
Any ideas on where the info came from / how to view the original record?
Thank you.
Wit Samuel Hay jun. Ballymacreely: John Hamilton, Carragullan. Ann's address Ballow
Ann's father George, David's father Samuel
Ireland, Select Marriages, 1619-1898
Name: Ann Hay
Marriage Date: 2 Nov 1827
Marriage Place: Presbyterian, Killinchy, Down, Ireland
Spouse: David Hay
FHL Film Number 824373
-
I have found a mention on Ros Davies site that James HOGG died 1816 aged 62y ( b abt 1854) and his wife Susannah HAY died 1808 aged 46y ( b abt 1762) both of Ballymacreely, and buried Killinchy First Presbyterian Church.
I believe these are my ancestors who may have had a son Jacob HOGG and a son, James HOGG. If I am on the right track, Jacob HOGG was a baker in Ballynahinch. William BARR of Ballynahinch left 40 quid to Jacob's daughter ' Sally' in his 1809 Will. I found 2 daughters for sure:
Sarah, b abt 1807 who married John HARPER ( I have 2 DNA matches to this line) ( she died New Cumnock, Ayrshire, have death cert which states Jacobs wife was Jane McCALLOW/McCALLA ), and
Eleanor HOGG who married, first, James NOUGHER/NOGHER/NOCHER who was murdered in 1850. Eleanor remarried James JOHNSTON 1856. I have found some children for her, and her Will
There may also have been a daughter, Deborah HOGG b abt 1803 who married William HARPER. She died 1896 in Clintnagooland. I have found a number of children for her.
There is probably a daughter Susannah HOGG as well as that name was a constant in many descendants family lines including my GGrandmother born in England 1856.
Another Deborah HOGG born about 1820 married Hugh McATEER ( I have many dna matches to this line on Chromosome 18). This Deborah may be the daughter of James HOGG, a weaver, possibly of Long Stone ( 1819 Directory).
I also have dna matches on chromosome 18 for Robert LENNOX and his wife who is shown as Anne HARE, born abt 1765 in Trees online, however I am wondering if the name might be HAY/HAYE/HAYES etc.
I would love to find more details on any of these folk. The LDS offices are closed due to covid, so I can't order any films.
Any help is much appreciated.
Cheers
Jo ( Australia)
Hi Jo,
I'm also from Australia, and have the same HOGG/HARPER lines, descending from James HOGG and Susannah HAY. I'm from the Sarah HOGG m. John HARPER line, which has descendants spread throughout Scotland, England, most states in Australia (but mainly Tasmania), NZ, the US and Canada. The spread is shown by the listing of heirs to James Patterson HARPER, Sarah and John's unmarried son, who died intestate with a considerable fortune:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/80269967?searchTerm=%22james%20patterson%20harper%22
I have recently been DNA matched to three descendants in the line of Deborah HOGG who married William HARPER, - it is possible that this could be a HARPER match (or both HOGG and HARPER).
I have the Ancestry information on three branches of Deborah's line, but would love to hear about yours and the Eleanor HOGG branch, and am happy to share mine.
Thanks
Jenny
-
Hi Jenny
Lovely to hear from you! I have one DNA match via Deborah and 2 via Sarah ( on ancestry Thrulines)..I have many more dna matches not being picked up yet. A couple of days ago, I played around with the robots on ancestry and moved my James to be the son of Jacob, instead of a brother, and I finally got a couple of my Chromosome 18 dna matches to show up in Thrulines, which had hitherto eluded me. However, they come up as Half rather full relatives as they are via a Deborah born abt 1820ish so I am fiddling around with them as we speak...she is either a daughter of Jacob and his second wife or a daughter of a son of Jacob's...possibly my James, or his wife ( who I have been trying to guess as I haven't found a marriage for his wife). My Tree is so mucked up now as a result LOL....Feel free to DM me
Cheers
Jo