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		Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: honestman on Monday 18 June 07 21:32 BST (UK) 
		
			
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				Does anyone have any info on a Hugh wagstaff and Margaret Weir who had a son John Wagstaff born in Coylton in 1824. 
 
 
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				Hi Hnest
 
 Found the birth
 
 25/02/1824 WAGSTAFF JOHN HUGH WAGSTAFF/MARGARET WEIR FR475 M Coylton /AYR
 
 But alas nothing for the marriage on either IGI or Scotkand's People.
 
 Did they marry in Scotland ?
 
 Ann
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				hi pal, big big welcome to rootschat
 
 found this on the 1841 census
 
 john- age 15- ag lab
 
 he is working on a farm owned by george reid - 65- farmer, in mole, coylton
 
 i cannot find any sign of hugh
 
 talking about hugh, could your hugh be the son of joseph and jean brown?
 
 if so he belongs to a huge family from loudoun.
 
 i have found a joseph wagstaff born c1776 and jean c1770
 
 they had children
 
 susanna 1792
 james-1794
 joseph-1795
 john-1796
 hugh- 1799
 jean- 1802
 john- 1805
 margaret- 1806
 thomas- 1808
 archiebald- 1810
 janet- 1814
 
 all born loudoun
 
 
 trying to help
 
 Joe
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				Thank you both for your reply. I have been told that this Hugh was a son of Joseph and Jean but can not find any hard evidence that the Hugh that is listed as their son is the same as mine. I also can not find any record of a marriage of Hugh and Margaret so I am at a dead end but never mind we must never give up .
			
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				Hi honest
 
 I think what Joe posted looks like a strong contender. You may find the records not on Scot;and;s People if they werenlt church of Scotland - have same issue myself grrr.
 
 However all not lost. If you can narrow doiwn parush the Natuional Archives Scotland do have records of non-conformist i.e. anything except c of S. Is worth giving them a call.
 
 http://www.nas.gov.uk/
 
 I did and was glad I did!
 
 The problem really is folks were supposed to have their own ceremony in their own church and then pay Cof S to 'register'/ Most didn;t either cos they couldn't afford to or they objected to paying another church so they didn't. However their own church did have a record and that's what NAS holds. What they have and how far back does vary but you can ring or email
 
 Worth a go I'd say
 
 Ann
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				Hugh Wagstaff is one of my ancestors and I could not find any marriage record either.  Hugh married Barbara Ferguson on 26 June 1841 in Loudoun. She was born in 1818 so was a lot younger than him.  They had two children, Hugh and Jean Ross (married Richard Morton 15 June 1864).
 Hugh died on 14 Feb 1849 of cholera.
 Hope this helps you! ;D
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				hi pal,
 
 18 wagstaff's on the 1841 census in loundon.
 
 main street, loundon
 
 jean...age 70
 hugh...age 20...weaver
 thomas....age 20...tile maker
 margaret love...age 15
 
 
 main street, loundon
 
 h...age 30...labourer
 margaret...age 30
 john...age 5
 joseph...age 3
 
 alstonpopple, loundon
 
 james...age 45...hand loom weaver
 jean...age 40
 james...age 22...hand loom weaver
 william...age 20...farm labourer
 agnes...age 18
 ann...age 16
 jean...age 12
 louise...age 10
 margaret...age 3
 john...age 4
 
 dort burn, loudon
 
 john macking...age 30...hand loom weaver
 margaret...age 25
 william...age 27....hand loom weaver
 jean...age 20
 stewart...age 15....hand loom weaver
 stewart wagstaff...age 3
 
 
 Joe
 
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				Hi Joe,
 
 Thanks for that information, it is a great help.
 
 Stephen
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				Hello,
 
 I just wanted to point out that "H Wagstaff" is actually "A Wagstaff" in this family.  This is Archibald Laurie Wagstaff's family.  The "A" is apparent on the actual census record.
 
 h...age 30...labourer
 margaret...age 30
 john...age 5
 joseph...age 3
 
 Regards
 Trish
 
 hi pal,
 
 18 wagstaff's on the 1841 census in loundon.
 
 main street, loundon
 
 jean...age 70
 hugh...age 20...weaver
 thomas....age 20...tile maker
 margaret love...age 15
 
 
 main street, loundon
 
 h...age 30...labourer
 margaret...age 30
 john...age 5
 joseph...age 3
 
 alstonpopple, loundon
 
 james...age 45...hand loom weaver
 jean...age 40
 james...age 22...hand loom weaver
 william...age 20...farm labourer
 agnes...age 18
 ann...age 16
 jean...age 12
 louise...age 10
 margaret...age 3
 john...age 4
 
 dort burn, loudon
 
 john macking...age 30...hand loom weaver
 margaret...age 25
 william...age 27....hand loom weaver
 jean...age 20
 stewart...age 15....hand loom weaver
 stewart wagstaff...age 3
 
 
 Joe
 
 
 
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				hi trish,
 
 let me first welcome you to rootschat and thank you so much for clearing up the 1841 census for your archibald.
 
 i am almost sure that the rootschatters interested in this thread would be interested in anymore details you have regarding your archibald.
 
 if you do not have any more i am sure if you post your details here that some kind soul will help.
 
 Joe
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				Hi Joe,
 
 Certainly.  I'm happy to share what I have on Archibald and family.  Much of this is compiled from the Pedigree Resource File of Claude Wrathall, and from Stephen who originated this thread.  I am descended from Archibald's brother, Hugh.
 
 Archibald Laurie Wagstaff
 b. 23 Apr 1810 Loudoun
 d. 5 Mar 1861, Newmilns
 Parents: Joseph Wagstaff and Jean Brown
 Spouse Margaret MacKay
 
 7 Known Children
 John Wagstaff
 b. abt. 1835 Loudoun.
 Stewart McKay Wagstaff
 b. 19 Feb 1837 Newmilns
 Joseph Wagstaff
 b. 24 Jun 1839 Loudoun
 d. abt 1906
 (note – there is a christening record for a son Joseph in 1844, so some have speculated that there were 2 Josephs, one b. 1839 who died bef. 1844, then a second b. 1844 who d. 1906)
 Son Wagstaff
 b. and d. 1841
 William Wagstaff
 b. abt. 1842 Loudoun
 d. Apr or May 1850 Loudoun
 Archibald Wagstaff
 b. Feb 1843
 d. 27 Mar 1903
 William Wagstaff
 b. 1851 - 1852 Galston
 d. bef. 1916
 
 Cheers,
 Trish
 
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				hi trish,
 
 this is what i have found so far, hope it may be of some help
 
 1851 census- brown street, galston
 
 archibald...age 40...mason's labourer
 margaret...age 40
 stewart...age 14...hand loom weaver
 joseph...age 12
 archibald...age 8
 
 stewart married elizabeth young in galston 1/1/1857
 
 wagstaff children from the marriage showing up on the igi's
 
 archibald...born loudoun 27/6/1858
 margaret...born galston...22/11/1859
 martha mckay...born galston 17/5/1862
 jean mckay...born galston 14/1/1865
 robert young...born galston 10/4/1867
 archibald...born galston...15/8/1869
 william young...born loudoun 14/1/1872
 joseph...born loudoun  29/4/1874
 
 john married jean mair in mauchline 17/7/1857
 
 archibald...born tarbolton 22/9/1858
 marion smillie...born mauchline 14/8/1860
 john...born mauchline 2/1/1863
 jean...born mauchline 30/8/1865
 john(twin)...born loudoun 4/11/1868
 margaret(twin)...born loudoun 4/11/1868
 williamina...born loudoun 27/1/1871
 janet smith...born loudoun 12/12/1873
 
 1861 census- main street, loudoun
 
 margaret...age 50...pirn filler
 joseph...age 22...weaver
 archibald...age 17...labourer
 william...age 9
 
 1861 census- brown street, galston
 
 
 stewart...age 24...cotton weaver
 elizabeth...age 23
 margaret...age 1
 
 1861 census- deaconbank, mauchline
 
 john...age 26...railway surfaceman
 jean...age 25
 archibald...age 2
 marion...age 7 months
 
 1871 census- isles street, newmilns
 
 stewart...cotton weaver
 elizabeth...age 34
 margaret...age 11
 helen...age 7
 jane...age 5
 robert...age 4
 archibald...age 2
 
 1871 census- burnside cottage, loudoun
 
 john...age 36...railway surfaceman
 jean...age 34
 archibald...age 12
 marion...age 10
 jean...age 5
 john...age 2
 margaret...age 2
 william m....age 2 months
 
 1881 census- northgate, peebles
 
 stewart...age 45...millworker
 elizabeth...age 45
 jane...age 16...millworker
 robert...age 14...millworker
 archibald...age 12
 william...age 9
 elizabeth...age 3
 
 1881 census- 4 doitburn street, loudoun
 
 john...age 45...labourer
 jane...age 45
 archibald...age 20...labourer
 jane...age 16...general servant
 john...age 12
 margaret...age 12
 williamina...age 9
 janet...age 7
 mary...age 4
 
 1891 census- 17 old town, peebles
 
 stewart...age 55...weaver
 elizabeth...age 55
 jane...age 29...millworker
 helen...age 28
 archibald...age 19...mason
 elizabeth...age 13
 james swinton...grand-son...age 6
 james price...grand-son...age 3
 elizabeth price...grand-daughter...age 1
 
 1891 census- hawthorn cottage, main street, loudoun
 
 john..age 56...railway labourer
 jean...age 55
 margaret...age 22...lace darner
 minnie...age 20...dressmaker
 janet...age 18...lace darner
 mary...age 14
 robert mills...grand-son...age 2 months
 william mckay...uncle...age 86...retired weaver
 
 1901 census- 132 holigate, uphall, west lothian
 
 william main...age 34...shale miner
 jean...age 35
 john...age 9
 stewart...age 6
 marion...age 3
 william...age 1
 stewart wagstaff...father-in-law...age 63...oil work labourer
 
 
 Joe
 
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				Fantastic!  Thanks very much.  - Trish
			
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				Regarding this household listed by Joe:
 
 Main street, Newmilns, Loudoun
 Jean Wagstaff...age 70
 Hugh Wagstaff...age 20...weaver
 Thomas Wagstaff....age 20...tile maker
 Margaret Love...age 15
 
 
 If anyone is able to shed light on the parents of this Hugh Wagstaff "20" living with Jean Wagstaff (M.S. Brown) during the 1841 c., I would greatly appreciate any clues.  He may be Jean's son (or possibly grandson), but we have no birth record to verify.
 
 I am certain that this Hugh is not Jean's son Hugh b. 1799 who resided in Paisley during the 1841 c. with his wife and several children.  He had several occupations over the years, but was never known to be a weaver as far as I know.
 
 We believe the Hugh listed here is the Hugh that married Barbara Ferguson later in 1841.
 
 Margaret Love is also listed in this household.  Her burial record describes her as Jean's granddaughter, but we have not been able to determine who her parents were.
 
 Thomas may be Jean's son Thomas b. 1808, but the age (listed "20") would be off a bit on this census (I guess stranger things have happened).  Thomas should be abt. 33 in 1841.
 
 Regards,
 Trish
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				hi trish,
 
 thomas wagstaff married helen kay 5/11/1846 loudoun
 
 1851 census- west dalley, galston
 
 thomas...age 43...farm labourer
 helen...age 44
 mary...age 4
 hugh...age 2
 thomas turnbull...son-in-law...age 8
 james highlet....son-in-law...age 17...hand loom weaver
 john kay...age 87...former farm labourer
 
 1861 census- main street, newmilns
 
 thomas...age 50...labourer
 helen...age 56...pirn winder
 mary...age 14...weaver
 hugh...age 12...weaver
 susan....age 9
 
 mary wagstaff married matthew connell 10/2/1871
 
 1871 census- mid gate house, galston
 
 thomas...age 62...labourer
 helen...age 68
 hugh...age 22...hand loom weaver
 susan...age 19...hand loom weaver
 matthew connell...grand-son...age 1
 
 after the 1871 census, susan wagstaff married archibald love in galston 18/8/1871
 
 1881 census- lanfine old lodge, galston
 
 thomas...age 73...labourer
 helen...age 80
 hugh...age 32...hand loom weaver
 
 1881 census- 16 kilholm street, loudoun
 
 matthew connell...age 40....weaver
 mary...age 34
 matthew...age 11
 mary...age 9
 william...age 7
 thomas wagstaff connell...age 5
 helen...age 2
 jane...age 11 months
 
 1881 census- main street kilmaurs
 
 archibald love...age 34...shoemaker(journeyman)
 susan...age 29
 helen...age 9
 robert...age 7
 archibald...age 5
 mary...age 1
 
 1891 census- 60 loudoun road, loudoun
 
 matthew connell...age 52...weaver
 mary...age 44
 mary...age 19...stocking framer
 william...age 17...shutler
 thomas...age 15...shutler
 helen...age 13
 jane...age 11
 robert...age 8
 james...age 3
 
 1891 census- irvine vennel, off main street, kilmaurs
 
 susan...age 41...boot finisher
 helen...age 19...boot finisher
 robert...age 17...boot finisher
 archibald...age 15...boot finisher
 mary...age 10
 thomas...age 8
 agnes...age 7
 allan...age 5
 
 1901 census- 44 riverbank street, loudoun
 
 matthew connell...age 62...weaver
 mary...age 64
 thomas...age 24...weaver
 helen...age 23
 jane...age 21...winder
 robert...age 19...weaver
 james...age 13
 mary w young...age 3...grand-daughter
 thomas young...age 11 months...grandson...born philadelphia, usa
 
 
 
 Joe
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				Thanks again, Joe.  I will review all that you have sent.  There is undoubtedly new information here for me.
 Best,
 Trish
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 Just a thanks to Joe for all the information, I am sure there is some new stuff for me in there as well
 
 Cheers
 
 Honestman
 
 
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				Hi All,
 
 Have done a Wagstaff search on Scotlandspeople of OPR births and baptisms from 01 jan 1730 to 31 dec 1843 inclusive of all parishes not just Loudoun.  The only Hugh listed to Joseph and Jean is b.22/12/1799.
 
 The only Thomas is b.24/07/1808
 
 How can we tell that the Jean Wagstaff 1841c is actually Jean Brown Wagstaff? I think it very likely as I know the age fits for us but 1841 c does tend to be wrong ages in a lot of cases.
 
 Think I'm getting more confused! ???
 
 Regards
 
 catherine
 
 
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				Hi Catherine,
 
 I don't blame you a bit for being confused, especially when it comes to the two Hughs.  That's a good question regarding why we assume this Jean Wagstaff is Jean M.S. Brown.
 
 Here are some thoughts...
 
 Jean's husband Joseph Wagstaff died 1833, so we know that Jean would have been a widow in 1841.
 
 All of the other Wagstaffs in Newmilns in the 1841 c. are Jean and Joseph's children and their families (no indication of a second Wagstaff family in the area).
 
 As you say, the age fits.  There are no other known female Wagstaffs that would be this age in Newmilns, except for Jean the wife of Joseph.  It's possible, of course, that this is another Jean Wagstaff that we don't know about.
 
 We have this OPR burial record for 19 Feb 1847 (from Claude Wrathall's transcriptions): "old Weddaw Wagstaff Tounhead Newmilns She is intered in the northmost Graff of George Smith Lair in the Brouns new Ground at the west dyke."
 
 (note she was buried in the "Brouns new Ground")
 
 These burial records go back to 1811, and we have no other burial record that indicates the death of Jean.
 
 There are no other Jean Wagstaffs (except for her descendants) that appear in the census after 1841.
 
 So, I guess our assumption is based on the age of Jean Wagstaff in the census, and circumstantial evidence.  This certainly could be flawed, but based on what we know I feel pretty good about assuming this is our Jean Brown.
 
 Best,
 Trish
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				hi all,
 
 back to stephen's original question on john born 1824....
 
 john married elizabeth downie on the 19/7/1844
 
 1851 census- toppa
 
 john...age 27...tea dealer's shopman
 elizabeth...age 30
 john...age 4
 james...age 1
 elizabeth downie...niece...age 5 (dau of james and mary mckinlay)
 
 1861 census- coylton
 
 john...age 37...farm labourer
 john...age 14...farm labourer
 james...age 11
 hugh...age 9
 william...age 6
 elizabeth downie...age 15...housekeeper
 
 stephen if we stop here for a minute...
 
 william was born 25/1/1855 i suggest you get on to sp website for his birth details as they will contain a lot of info about john and elizabeth.
 
 the pringles play a great part in this family, as of yet i have not made the connection between the wagstaffs and the pringles.
 
 1871 census- hillhead
 
 john...age 47...labourer
 elizabeth...age 51
 james...age 21...grocer
 hugh...age 18...pupil teacher
 
 also at home with john is the niven family (mother catherine mclymont pringle)
 
 sevaerance...age 14...born singapore
 margaret...age 14...born singapore
 annie...age 11....born sinapore
 agnes...age 11...born singapore
 jane...age 9...born singapore
 robert...age 8...born singapore
 james...age 6...born coylton
 john...age 4....born singapore
 
 **** their father james parker niven must be travelling back and forth from singapore (maybe with tea??)
 
 also with john is janet morrison (nee pringle, dau of john and janet campbell)(seaman's wife) is he also bringing back tea???
 
 janet morrison...sister-in-law...age 48...visitor
 janet morrison...niece...age 21
 
 1871 census- 134 high street, ayr (lodging with david frazer)
 
 john...age 24...grocer
 william...age 16...grocer
 
 1881 census- hillhead
 
 john...age 57...labourer
 elizabeth...age 61
 janet morrison...niece...age 30...dressmaker
 
 1881 census- lorne row, coylton
 
 william...age 26...coal miner
 susan...age 27
 william...age 4
 james...age 2
 john...age 11 months
 hugh mcdowall...stepson...age 9 (born 17/6/1871 to susan mcdowall)
 
 1881 census- 11 queen street, st quivox
 
 john...age 33...commerical traveller
 martha...age 25
 john wilson wagstaff...age 3
 minnie sillars wagstaff...age 1
 
 1891 census- hillhead
 
 john...age 67...labourer
 elizabeth...age 71
 john pringle niven...nephew...age 24...student of law...born singapore
 
 1891 census- lorne row, coylton
 
 william...age 36...coal miner
 susan...age 37
 william...age 14...coal miner
 james...age 12...coal miner
 john...age 10
 george...age 8
 lawrence...age 6
 campbell...age 5
 elizabeth...age 3
 hugh mcdowall...stepson...age 19...coal miner
 
 1891 census- main street, auchinleck
 
 john...age 44...grocer
 martha...age 35
 john w...age 13...pupil teacher
 james d...age 8
 martha w...age 5
 hugh w...age 1
 
 1901 census- cumnock road, hillhead
 
 elizabeth...age 85
 
 1901 census- lorne row, coylton
 
 william...age 46...coal miner
 susan...age 48
 william...age 24...coal miner
 james...age 22...coal miner
 john...age 20...coal miner
 george...age 19...coal miner
 lawrence...age 17...coal miner
 campbell...age 15...coal miner
 elizabeth...age 13
 
 1901 census- main street, auchinleck
 
 john...age 54...grocer
 martha...age 45
 james...age 18...chemist's assistant
 martha...age 15
 hugh...age 11
 
 
 i hope this is of some help
 
 
 Joe
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				Hi Joe,
 just to let you know that John married Elizabeth Pringle in 1861 after the death of his first wife Elizabeth Downie in 1857.
 
 In the 1861 census other boarders in the building include Elizabeth Pringle and her father, sister Janet Morrison and her children, Janet and William.
 In the 1871 census, John and Elizabeth Pringle Wagstaff were joined by the Niven children after the death of her sister Catherine in Singapore in 1867.
 James P Niven and John P  Niven from Edinburgh erected a headstone in 'affectionate' memory of Elizabeth and husband John in Coylton Churchyard.
 
 Regards
 Cat
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				thanks cat,
 
 see the marriage of john and elizabeth 6/12/1861
 
 do not wish to divert from the wagstaff's but was'nt that wonderful of the niven children.....
 
 here is their mum in the census.
 
 1841 census- arthurson, coylton (pringle family)
 
 john...age 50...farm labourer
 janet...age 50
 catherine...age 13
 
 1851 census- hillhead (pringle family)
 
 john...age 61...farm labourer
 elizabeth...age 32...housekeeper
 janet....age 30...seaman's wife
 janet morrison...grand-daughter...age 1...seaman's daughter
 
 1861 census- coylton (pringle family)
 
 john...age 71...former farm labourer
 elizabeth...letter carrier
 janet morrison...age 40
 janet morrison...age 11
 william morrison...age 8
 
 1871 census- 15 high main street, dalmellington
 
 william morrison...lodger...age 18...mineral borer
 
 home of james murdoch
 
 1881 census- hillhead (morrison family)
 
 janet...age 59...former cook
 william...age 27...fireman in coal mine
 
 1881 census- 15 warrender park terrace, newington (niven family)
 
 agnes...age 26...dividends
 jane b...age 19...dividents
 james p...age 16
 john p...age 14
 
 1881 census- 374 st.vincent street, glasgow (home of jessie mcbeth)
 
 robert niven...lodger...age 18...shipbroker's clerk
 
 1891 census- hillhead (morrison family)
 
 janet...age 72...former cook
 
 1891 census- coylton (morrison family)
 
 william...age 38...coal miner
 annie...age 30
 janet c p...age 8 months
 
 1891 census- 100 elderslie st, glasgow (home of william balloch)
 
 robert niven...age 27...clerk
 james niven...age 22...student of medince
 
 1901 census- hillhead (morrison family)
 
 william...age 48...coal miner
 annie...age 39
 janet...age 10
 william...age 7
 
 1901 census- 29 myrtle terrace, edinburgh (home of john mathieson)
 
 john niven...age 34...law clerk
 james niven...age 36...managing law clerk
 
 
 hope this may be of help
 
 
 Joe
 
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				Hi Joe,
 
 Thanks for all your hard work in answer to my question. Lots of the stuff I already had but lots I had not got round to yet so thanks for saving me and any other Wagstaff researcher a lot of hard work.
 The Niven connection with John has always interested me and as you say how good of them to erect John and Elizabeths gravestone.
 
 Thanks again Joe
 
 Stephen
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				Hello
 Sorry to join in half way through this thread but Im trying to locate more information about the Singapore  Nivens. Is there any chance any of you have more information. My great great grandmother was Catherine Mcniven of Islay and we know this Niven family came from Islay but Im trying to find the link. Many thanks
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				Just to add to the above thread re Niven of Singapore
 He was a Nutmeg plantation owner and also did the layout for what later became the Singapore Botanical Gardens- I have his name as Laurence Niven.
 
 There is also a connection of Robert Burns to Nivens
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				hi pal,
 
 warm welcome to rootschat.
 
 if anything a researcher finds a nightmare it is having 2 james niven's born in singapore... not just 2 james's but what about 2 robert's!!!!
 
 going by my earlier posts it looks like that robert in 1881 census is yours, and in 1891 he is with his brother james in 101 elerslie street, glasgow. here maybe be your link to argyll.
 
 1901 census- dunaverty cottage, southend, argyll
 
 doctor james niven...age 32...reg-mall practitioner...born singapore
 elizabeth y....age 25...born england
 laurence...age 8...born glasgow
 florence n b...age 3....born england
 
 
 1901 census- 9 crown circus road, partick, glasgow
 
 robert...age 37...shipping manager...born singapore
 janet...age 30
 laurence...age 1
 
 
 so if these nivens belong to you where are the others???
 
 
 Joe
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				1881 census- eglinton arms hotel, alloway street, ayr
 
 robert niven...age 27...clerk
 
 could this be him?
 
 
 Joe
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				Don't know if this will be of any help to you re Nivens but in Coylton Churchyard there are two monumental inscriptions to the family.
 
 'Er by James P Niven Esq merchant Singapore in affectionate remembrance of his wife Catherine McLimont Pringle d at Singapore 23 Mar 1867 aged 38 yr 8mths; also of his daus Annie Aitken d Hillhead Coylton 19 Nov 1872 aged 14 yr 6mth; Jessie Campbell d Singapore 9Jan 1874 aged 20yr 6mths; the above James Parker Niven d at Hillhead 6 Sep 1876 aged 56; also his son Lawrence d Hong Kong 31 May 1890 aged 33; also his daus Agnes Alice Hamilton( Mrs Alec Buyers) d Shanghai 29 Jun 1919 in her 64th year; and Jeanie Buyers (Mrs Sam Groundwater)'
 
 'In memory of Laurence Niven late of Singapore d Hillhead 21 Aug 1876 aged 51.' 'Also in memory of his wife Jane Newbold d Singapore 21 Jan 1906 aged 69 and is interred there.'
 
 Hope this helps
 
 Cat30
 
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				Thanks Runningbear and Cat 30 for the additional information. Im still on the trail but it has helped me get abother generation back to see if there is a link
			
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				Hi I am new to this forum and maybe a little late.  I too am a decendant of Hugh Wagstaff.  I have found this link showing there were 2 Hugh Wagstaff's sons of Joseph and Jean (Brown) Wagstaff.  One born in 1799 married Margaret Weir and one born 1818 married Barbara Ferguson.  The author has everthing referenced but the references are not specific.  They may be for his own information and have them listed elsewhere.  It is worth a shot contacting him.
 Regards,
 MJ
 
 http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/a/g/Stephen-Wagstaff/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0029.html
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				Hi
 I am a descendant of Laurence Niven and his son James Parker Niven (named after his uncle). My great grandfather James was born in Singapore ( he wrote a bit about the family in Sinapore in the following link ( he became a doctor and was based at Southend Cambelltown Scotland) i am interested on any information about his mother that may have been called Jane her father was a Col Thomas John Newbold.
 http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nivenfamily/genealogica_chapter7.html
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				Hi,
 
 My husband is also a descendant of Hugh Wagstaff son of Joseph Wagstaff and Jean Brown of Loudoun Parish.
 
 Re. Hugh's brother Archibald Lawrie Wagstaff  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTK3-V95.
 
 I believe Archibald was probably :-\ named after the Minister of Loudoun Church during this period - the Rev. Archibald Lawrie.
 http://www.robertburns.org/encyclopedia/LawrieTheRevDrArchibald17681511837.514.shtml
 
 The Rev. Archibald Lawrie and his father Rev. George Lawrie were friends of Robert Burns who visited them at The Manse in Newmilns.
 
 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/AYR/Loudoun/pigot.html .
 
 Looby :)
 
 
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				Hi,
 
 I too am a descendant of Hugh. Thanks both for posting the information on your family branches I have found it all most interesting.
 
 Stephen Wagstaff
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				Browsing on Rootschat and found your post 11/08/13.  wow! what a surprise!  My children are also descendents of Laurence Niven/James Parker Niven.  My late husband being Laurence - who visited NZ in the 1950's when he was a Merchant Navy Marine Engineer and if you are a related you will probably be a child of Sandy (son of William & Remu).   I do hope that you are still following up the posts on Rootschat.
			
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				I have photos of William Niven/Remu - would you be interested in viewing them?
 best wishes and happy new year.  boudica
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				My children are related to you (cousins once removed) so please get in touch if you are still interested).
			
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				Please get in touch with me.   I have the information you require re Lawrence/James Parker Niven.   My husband was James Parker Niven's grandson!    I would really like to set up a link with you,.   Boudica.
			
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				Boudicca - cannot reply to you private chat but you are correct my grandparents were William (Jock) and Rimu Niven.
 
 would love to know more about my grandfathers brotherI have photos of William Niven/Remu - would you be interested in viewing them?
 best wishes and happy new year.  boudica
 
 
 link=topic=239430.msg5243474#msg5243474 date=1394013774]
 Please get in touch with me.   I have the information you require re Lawrence/James Parker Niven.   My husband was James Parker Niven's grandson!    I would really like to set up a link with you,.   Boudica.
 [/quote]
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				Hi Watchernz,
 
 Boudica's emails do not appear to be working at the moment, I have just sent her a message about your reply but we may have to wait for boudica to log in to receive it.
 
 Regards
 
 Sarah :)
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				Hi Sarah
 
 Thanks for doing that
 
 Jenny
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				Hi, I am a newby to RootsChat and I am here because I was told about the Niven family search and the NZ and Newbold connections. Jane Niven, nee Newbold, born circa 1837 was the daughter of my gt.gt.gt uncle Captain Thomas John Newbold (1807-1850). We have been trying to find what happened to descendants of William Brown Niven (aka Jock) and Remu Emily Holmes. Their son Henry James Niven (1949-1973) died in Rotorua, did he leave a family or have any siblings? We live in NZ and would love to know.
			
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				Hi, I am a newby to RootsChat and I am here because I was told about the Niven family search and the NZ and Newbold connections. Jane Niven, nee Newbold, born circa 1837 was the daughter of my gt.gt.gt uncle Captain Thomas John Newbold (1807-1850). We have been trying to find what happened to descendants of William Brown Niven (aka Jock) and Remu Emily Holmes. Their son Henry James Niven (1949-1973) died in Rotorua, did he leave a family or have any siblings? We live in NZ and would love to know.
 
 
 My grandparents were William Brown Niven (Jock) and Rimu Emily Niven (née Holmes). They had two sons, my uncle Harry (Henry James Niven) who was killed in a car crash in 1973 and my father, Laurence Alexander Niven (Sandy) who was born in Wellington in 1940 and passed away in Takanini Auckland in 2016. Uncle Harry had no issue and my father had four children, Margaret, Jennifer (me), Douglas and Andrew. Margaret and her family are in Australia, and Andrew and his family are in Germany. Dad (Sandy has 13 grandchildren and one great grandchild who currently are located in NZ, Germany, Australia and France.
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				Hi Watchernz, thank you for the new information we only knew about your uncle. If you are interested we have quite a bit of information about your gt. gt grandmother & gt. gt. grandfather. We are in Auckland.