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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: greenvalley on Sunday 17 June 07 13:44 BST (UK)
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Hi,
In my tree I have Charles Charles Simpson WILSON, born 11 September 1843 in Liff and Benvie – corn merchant, who married Jessie JESSIMAN on 19 March 1867, when he was 24 years old and she's the same age.
Their children are
Georgianna Jessiman WILSON, born 27 January 1868 in Monifieth
Charles WILSON , born 1st June 1869 in Monifieth
Eric Anderson WILSON, born 12th July 1870 in Rosebank Cottage in Broughty Ferry
John Jessiman WILSON, born 10th June 1871 in Rosebank Cottage in Broughty Ferry
Jessie dies on 18th May 1880 – the cause of death reads “probably an overdose of alcohol”. The death was registered by Helen D Jessiman, her sister, who was living at 137 Seagate - this appears the be the house that belongs to George JESSIMAN, wood merchant and the father of Jessie.
On the 1881 census the children are living with the grandfather. In 1891 Georgina is staying with her aunt Agnes Anderson in Elgin - I even found Georgina's marriage to Robert Thompson in 1896.
But I can't find Charles WILSON her husband anywhere. he didn't register her death, so maybe he died before her. But if he did it's not registered on Scotlandspeople.
The boys also disappear after 1881, although in his will in 1897 George JESSIMAN names Georgina (leaves her £100) but also makes provisons for "the children of my deceased daughter Jessie."
So where are they? I mean, it's not as if I could make a spelling mistake with the surname or anything. Which leads me to my question if anyone knows if there are missing records in Dundee from 1870 to 1900?
Greenvalley
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Hello Greenvalley,
nothing positive to add, sorry to say, but I did not want you to think that you were being ignored.
Although some census books were lost or damaged, as far as I know all BMDs are complete, subject to the information being recorded in the first place.
Like you, I found no records for Charles Wilson after 1871 or for his sons after the 1881 census. On Jessie's death in 1880, she was recorded as "married to Charles Wilson", and on Georgina's marriage in 1896 she records her father as deceased. This could imply that the informants had some knowledge of his whereabouts.
Jessie has 4 children in very quick succession until 1871. Although there is the possibility of a medical problem, my suspicion is that Charles left the family. His wife's sister (Helen) being informant to her death, and the children being with Helen and their grandfather in 1881 reinforces that view. I can find no sign of Charles or the boys in England or Wales, so Ireland or abroad seem possibilities, unless they changed their surname.
The wording of the will, naming Georgina but making provisions for the other children, suggests that they were not in touch. This may remain a brick wall.
Regards,
John
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Hi Greenvalley and sporran,
Not too much more than you have already but I was in the NAS, and done a search on charles wilson 1871-1881 and got 2hits, but the NAS site is hanging, I cannot download the info, maybe nothing but does mention corn merchant. Give it a go later.
Tom
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Hi greenvalley,
Here are the 2 items regarding your Charles Wilson, apparently it was the sequestartion process that started. It says Start date: 22/05/1871. Not sure what th acutual documents will tell you.
Details CS318/15/447 Charles Wilson, Dundee, Forfarshire, Corn merchant 1872 Open
Details CS318/18/337 Charles Wilson, Dundee, Forfarshire, Corn merchant 1875 Open
Tom
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Hi Sporran and Tidybooks,
thank you very much for that info. I didn't know about the bankruptcy.
I still find it baffling that he seems to have left his family or that the boys completely disappear from view as well.
He has some brothers living in Dundee and a sister in Elgin and ther are all reasonably well off. Mind you, one of the other brothers, James, a produce commission agent also disappears after the 1871 Census with his family.
The info I have on him is:
James WILSON, born 1 March 1831 – produce commission agent, married Annie Noble SIMPSON on 16 January 1866 in the Episcopal Church in Fordyce, Banff. He was 35 and she was 30. At the time James was living at 4 Craigie Street in Dundee. Annie is the daughter of a retired farmer Ferguson SIMPSON and Ann NOBLE, living at Kilnhillock, parish of Fordyce. Witnesses were Charles Wilson and John Murray.
The children of James and Annie are:
Annie Noble Simpson born 1867 in Dundee
James born 1868 in Dundee
Agnes Eliza Noble 11 January 1870 in Dundee
Tomina Margareta 27 March 1871 in Dundee
Caroline Ferguson 14 March 1872 in Dundee
In 1871 the family is living at 3 Craigie Bank Terrace and Tomina hasn’t been named yet, as she’s only a few days old. But I’ve been unable to find the family after this. Annie’s mother is staying with them and they couple employ 2 house servants.
Maybe they all went abroad, 's just a shame that they'll be virtually impossible to find.
Greenvalley
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This has to be just a quick post as I am pressed for time. John Jessiman Wilson was my grandfather. He died just before I was born in 1951. He married Alice Cookes who was Agnes Anderson's (nee Wilson) grandaughter in Sao Paulo, Brazil. He worked his entire career for the Bank of London and South America in Rio de Janeiro from the 1890s until the late 1920s. He retired back to London and eventually to the Isle of Wight. Interestingly, the last cottage he lived in, on the Isle of Wight, was called Seagate. He had six daughters (one died very young). My mother was the youngest. My aunt, Helen Jessiman Middleton-Smith, was the last daughter to die. She died on December 22, 2010 at the age of 100. I would be glad to share more information with you as soon as I can.
Steve Dove
Canada
According to our family oral history, Charles Wilson, my great grandfather, abandoned his family and emigrated to the United States. He died on August 21, 1895 in Morgan City, Louisiana, USA (near New Orleans). I have attached two photos of my grandfather
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Hi Steve,
Nice to meet you. You are related to my husband. Charles Wilson, your great grandfather was a brother of his great grandfather, so you're distant cousins. Always forget how many times removed.
John Jessiman Wilson and Alice Cookes were related, did you know that? Agnes Anderson was the sister of Charles Wilson, father to John and she was the grandmother of Alice.
If you post a few more replies we can send a personal message with an email address and I will be happy to share the Wilson information I have.
Greenvalley
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I got an email stating that this topic has been split into two, but I can't find the post. When I click on either link it gets me to this topic.
What am I doing wrong?
Greenvalley
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Hi Greenvalley ,
I believe a post to this topic was removed as it contained too much information about the 1911 England Census , and that led to the split post notification.
We are not allowed to give full details for that Census(only what is available from free searches).
ev
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Some more info on Agnes Anderson nee Wilson
born 1823 in Auchrannie as the oldest daughter of Thomas Wilson and Margaret Simpson. There were 11 children in total
1823 Agnes married Eric Anderson
1825 Elizabeth
1827 Alexander
1829 Thomas
1831 James
1833 Margaret
1835 David
1839 John - my line
1843 Charles - married Jessie Jessiman
1845 William
I have detailed info on them all. As you can see, Agnes is 20 years older than her bother Charles, and her daughter Margaret (who married William Cookes) is only ten years younger than her uncle.
The picture below is of the Anderson family in Elgin in 1910, the old lady in the middle is Agnes Anderson (Wilson).
Greenvalley
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It is very exciting to see this picture as it connects our two families. I also have the same picture, annotated by my great-uncle Cyril (Alice Wilson's brother). As you can see, it suggests it was take on the occasion of my great-great grandmother's 90th birthday in 1913 at Lossiemouth. Agnes' house was Oakbank in Elgin which is still standing and only on its 4th owner after 150 years. My wife and I visited it in 2008. The others in the picture are Agnes' children - starting top left
Thomas John b. Sep 17, 1858 d. Nov 23 1922
Alexander Wilson b. Jul 22, 1854 d.Aug 12 1928
Margaret Simpson b. Apr 11, 1852 d. Mar 30, 1937
Lewis b. Mar 6, 1850 d. Aug 1935
Elizabeth Lawson b. May 21, 1861 d. Aug 25, 1921
Eric Sutherland b. Jan 11, 1847 d. Dec 12, 1937
I have a family history book written by a cousin who added to research by other members of the family. It is entitled "The Moray Book of The Sutherlands of Duffus, The Andersons of Windmill, Drainie and Oakbank, Elgin. The Wilsons of Auchrannie and Tealing, Angus and The Cookes of Warwick and Braevilla, Elgin - Their relatives and descendants.
I am glad to share this book plus all the pictures and information that I have. I would be very happy to have any information that you have on the Wilson side of the family. The book details the many interactions between the three families (Wilson,Cookes and Andersons) but tends to concentrate on Cookes and Andersons as the collectors of the information came from those two families.
I would be happy to exchange information directly through email. Mine is * My name is Steve Dove
*Email address removed as per RootsChat policy. Please use the Personal Message(PM) system to exchange private information such as email addressses or details of living or possibly living people.
To send a PM just click on the small green scroll to the left of the post of the person you wish to contact
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Hi Steve and Greenvalley
My grandfather Eric Anderson Wilson was the brother of John Jessiman Wilson. As a very small child I remember, just, my mother took me to the Isle of Wight to see her Uncle John, my great uncle, and his wife Aunt Alice who I remember better. I have a vague picture of Uncle John in my head. I have two phtos of me on the beach at Ventnor I think. There is a little boy on the beach with me. Some years later I was told he, David, was drowned in the sea. My cousin also remembers going to the Isle of White and he remembers meeting Aunt Alice a few times.
My mother was quite friendly with Uncle John's daughter Agnes and I went to see her sometimes so
I can still picture her face as it was in the fifties. For a while she seemed to live in a mews flat int eh West End of London. Her sister Molly is the one who died young I think.
She wrote a long letter to the family from India about her escape from the Japanses which is very interesting reading. I still have a copy of the letter which was given to my mother. I think she was married to Sam at the time, though later I think they split up.
I was told by my mother that my grandfather lived with his Aunt in Elgin for sometime and that he used the name Anderson Wilson because it was her surname.
He wore a ring with a crest which my Mother wore afterwards, but I cannot think where that crest comes from. Unfortunately he died in London when my mother was 15 and my aunt was 11. I think he was 55.
I have some photos of him from 1913 with his wife my granny and my mother as a 3 year old. In my granny's writing it says July 1913 Easrwood Broughty Ferry. I have a good picture of him taken perhaps in India where he went for a spell. I have not been able to attach it yet.
WilsonJud
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Wilsonjud,
It was great to read your post. All the details you mention fit exactly with my knowledge of family history. I am off to work it a couple of minutes but will reply in more detail tonight.
Steve
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WilsonJud
so nice to hear from another Wilson! Are you living in the UK? Perhaps even near Dundee?
I have been putting the Wilson family tree together for quite some years now and would love to exchange information. Eric Anderson Wilson had me stumped, as all I could find was material from the 1911 census. It seems that quite a number of the "Dundee" children went to stay with their aunt Agnes in Elgin, my guess is that they visited the Elgin Academy.
If you send one or more replies we should be able to send private messages.
Greenvalley
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Hi Greenvalley
Very nice to hear from you.
Yes I am in the UK but unfortunately stuck in London. Luckily one of my cousinsand some family live fairly near us which is nice. He is a grandson of Eric Anderson Wilson. Eric came to London and worked in the city. His daughters, my mother and her sister went to Southampstead High School for Girls in Hampstead, but when Eric died suddenly at 55, she had to leave shcool and went out to work. She told me a relative had got her a job in the city at the Bank of London and South America . This now makes sense since I have read from CowleyDove that Great Uncle John worked for that bank all his life. Unfortunately my mother died when I was 25 so I never got round to asking enough.
I would love to exchange information with you privately when we have done enough exhanges. I have never ventured into this field of finding ancestors before and am not at all good at it and dont know the ropes at all.
WilsonJud
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Hi Steve,
I was delighted to hear from you and to know that what I remember fits with your knowledge of the family. Sometimes after all these years on wonders if some of the memories are all muddled up or that perhaps some have been imagined. I would love to hear more. The book you mentioned in one of your posts sounds intriguing. I dont suppose it is generally available. My husbanf and I have visited Sotland quite a lot and stayed in the nineties with one relative, a cousin of my mother. Another time we had to go up because of my husband's work and (as well as going to the Braemar gathering which was great)we visited Elgin, but not knowing what road or house to look for just wandered through to get a feel of the place. It is great to know it is still there and may be able to go again sometime to have a look.
Look forward to hearing from you.
WilsonJud
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Thanks for the reply WilsonJud,
Charles Simpson Wilson, the father of Eric Anderson Wilson, was the brother of my husband's grandfather, John Wilson. I have quite a lot of information on the Wilsons which I am more than happy to share and incredibly curious to what happened to the branch of Eric Anderson Wilson.
Do you, or your cousin, happen to have a picture of Charles Simpson Wilson? (By the way, Simpson is the maiden name of your great-great grandmother Margaret, who was married to Thomas Wilson, farmer at Hillside of Balgay in Dundee.)
The Wilson family never ceases to amaze me. I started the research as a present for my husband, but the Wilsons keep throwing up interesting surprises so my research never stops.
The only daughter I could find for Eric was Ruth Mary, born in Fulham in 1911, was she your mother?
Greenvalley
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WisonJud,
It looks like we are second cousins. Nice to meet you. I have attached a picture of John Jessiman Wilson. I can certainly send you the book on the Andersons which was written by Elizabeth Anderson. That book and Greenvalley's book on the Wilsons contain a wealth of information about the two families that were so closely connected. I will send you my email in a personal message. If you email me I will send more pictures and a copy of the Anderson book.
Steve
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Steve
Yes we must be second cousins. Great to be in touch. I look forward to your personal message and then I can let you have my own email. I would love the book. Let me know the cost. Thanks for the picture.
WilsonJud