RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: fiona g on Saturday 16 June 07 23:06 BST (UK)
-
Any or all help appreciated on this one.Spent a fortune on SP with no luck.I can find no birth record,death record of marriage record for John Burnside son of William Burnside and Isabella or Isabel Hood,East Lothian but did find him on his brother James Burnside death record recorded as brother and informant living at 26 Renfrew Lane,GLASGOW in 1871.The only other clue I have from Freecen 1851 is John was born 1832 in Bolton,East Lothian.I have tried all I can think of for East Lothian with no luck so therefore am trying Glasgow area as he resided at Renfrew Lane Glasgow. Fiona
-
Hi fguthire,
On the 1871 census, at 26 Renfrew Lane, Bltyhswood, Glasgow Barony, we have a family called Burns not Burnside, and it is also Bolton England, strange!
John Burns 39 b 1832 Bolton England Occ – Carter
Hannah Burns 34 b 1837 England
William Burns 8 b 1863 England
Hannah Burns 5 b 1866 Glasgow
Sarah Burns 3 b 1868 Glasgow
Could enumerator written wrong name down?
Tom
-
Hi fguthrie,
It is getting stranger--
Done a search on SP for children of William Burnside and Is*bel* Hood for whole of Scotland from 1553 to 1854, came back with 1 result, James, christened 15 June 1819 at Garvald , East Lothian not far from Bolton, East Lothian. This is not on IGI
On the 1881 census at 35 Renfrew Street, Bltyhswood, Glasgow Barony
John Burns 48 b 1833 Bolton East Lothian Occ – Carter
Hannah Burns 45 b 1836 England
William Burns 18 b 1863 England
Hannah Burns 14 b 1867 Glasgow
Sarah Burns 11 b 1870 Glasgow
John Burns 9 b 1872 Glasgow.
Apart from slight age differences, big one is, John is from Bolton , East Lothian, a bit too much of a co-incidence
Tom
-
In 1891, still at 35 Renfrew Street, Blythswood, Glasgow Barony,
John Burns 58 b 1833 Up Bolton East Lothian Occ – General Labourer
Hannah S Burns 59 b 1832 England
Sarah Burns 21 b 1870 Glasgow Occ - Etcher
John Burns 19 b 1872 Glasgow Occ – Tinsmith Apprentice
Hannah has now got middle initial and gained about 4 years since last census
Tom
-
Hi fguthrie,
In 1901, still at 35 Renfrew Street, Blythswood, Glasgow Barony,
John Burns 71 b 1830 Haddington Occ – Carter
Hannah Burns 67 b 1834 Cambridge England
Sarah Burns 29 b 1870 Glasgow Occ – Metallic Painter
John Burns 28 b 1872 Glasgow Occ – Tinsmith
This time John senior is about 3 years older than last time, Hannah was born in Cambridge.
Tom
-
Hi fguthrie,
Went back the way, to try and find a John Burnside
In the 1851 Census, at Penston Farm, Gladsmuir, Haddington
William Burnside 57 b 1794 b Haddington Occ - Farm Labourer
Isabella Burnside 54 b 1797 Pencaitland
James Burnside 32 b 1819 Garvald Occ – Farm Labourer
John Burnside 19 b 1832 Bolton Occ –Farm Labourer
Now need to find out how John dropped the “ide” and moved to Glasgow.
In the 1861 Census, at Penston Farm, Gladsmuir, Haddington
William Burnside 64 b 1797 Haddington Occ – Ag Lab
Suspect Isabella has died and both boys have moved on.
Tom
-
Hi fguthrie,
Now the juicy bits,
I have found a trial of John Burnside and Hannah Burnside (nee Sanderson) in Jedburgh Sherriff court 08 Sep 1863 for theft and rest of theft. Hannah got off but John was sent to Perth prison for 15 months sentence.
On Ancestry, I think I have traced marriage between John Burnside and Hannah Sanders (not Sanderson) at Newmarket, Cambridgeshire on the Jul, Aug, Sep quarter of 1860. (Marriage Vol. 3 B 783)
Found them on 1861 England census at 7 Princes Street in Cambridge, He is a porter aged 29 and she is 24. He is born in Scotland Bolton East Lothian, she is born in Bottesham, Cambridgeshire, England.
Tom
-
The NAS Records have details of a precognition of witnesses in the case against John & Hannah and records their details as:
CountryCode GB
RepCode 234
RefNo AD14/63/198
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Title Precognition against John Burnside, Hannah Burnside for the crime of theft and reset of theft
Date 1863
Accused John Burnside, married, Age: 32, labourer, Address: Earlston, Berwickshire
Accused Hannah Burnside, wife of John Burnside, labourer (co-accused), m.s. Sanderson, Age: 27, Address: Wilton, near Hawick
AccessStatus Open
RelatedRecord JC26/1863/97
RelatedRecord JC26/1863/97
The only anomaly there is that both have different addresses which although both in the same general area are roughly 20 miles apart.
-
Thank you so much Tom and Falkyrn,I have tried for so long to solve that one.I now have John Burns (Burnside)death record (1902)from SP with his parents named as proof he is their 3rd son.Seems we have a bit of a rogue in the family though. Fiona
-
Hi Tom & Falkryn
you both helped get this one off the ground for me,here is the final part.
my third great-granduncle John Burns(ide)and his wife Hannah Sanderson where on trial for theft at Jedburgh Sherriff court, I can give you some details in my own words (due to copyright thingy).
Thanks to another kind Rootschatter - Blackcat - who was at West Register House recently and checked the trial details for me.
John and Hannah Burnside charged with theft and reset of theft 19th or 20th Nov 1862 both kept in prison until their trial 8th Sep 1863
both accused of stealing 3 wrappers from a waggon at Hawick Railway Station,various items inc..
a piece or web of Alpaca cloth
3 pairs of boots
4 pieces of webs of Tweed cloth
8 pairs of woolen drawers
a rosewood workbox
cotton nightdress
linen tablecloth
3 cotton shifts
linen towel
and a view of Dunoon.
above items being transported by rail for other people in wrappers.
John states that he purchased the boots,cloth ect from a Hawker at the door of the Half Moon Public House,local of Newton Station(whilst refreshing himself with an Ale),for 25 shillings.
The police had went to Hannahs house and taken away a varity of items,however Hannah was able to account for most of them as being purchased at x or a gift from y,hense she got off with the charge.
John had knowledge of the Railway as he had previously been a porter there before being discharged of employment the previous April ... in consequence of his inabililty to discharge the duties.
I imagine that is why after the prison sentence was complete they changed their name from Burnside to Burns and John fled from his Roots of E.Lothian to live and die in Glasgow.I have John and Hannahs childrens deaths now also,all 4 died thinking their name as Burns and none as far as I can tell had any children,the end of the Burns(ide) family.
Fiona
-
Hi fiona,
Great result.
Tom
-
My Grandmother was Elizabeth Burnside born about 1898 in Haddington. I'm told that Burns is a short version of Burnside like Ron is short for Ronald. When her Grandmother was married in 1866 and Catherine Burnside was on documents as her Mother. I believe Catherine was really a God Mother. When the Grandmother died her mothers name was Mary.
One of Elizabeth Burnsides sisters married a Hood and migrated to Australia before WW2.
I haven't read all the posts yet but thanks for posting!!
-
.... 1881 census ....
John Burns 48 b 1833 Bolton East Lothian Occ – Carter
That is not an age difference. The original census, as you know, never includes a year of birth. The date of 1833 is arrived at by subtracting John's stated age (48) from the year of the census (1881).
However the 1881 census was taken on 4 April. This means that anyone born on or after 5 April has not yet had a birthday in 1881, and by the end of the year they will be a year older. So (assuming their age is accurate) someone aged 48 on 4 April 1881 could have been born any time from 5 April 1832 to 4 April 1833.
This means that a year of birth in a census transcription is incorrect in about three out of four cases.
-
Can i just say I have no input to the opening post but what a fantastic result and story Roots Chatters have really surpassed themselves on this and many more fascinating keep on giving and we all receive.
-
Hi Garngad,
Thanks for your comments, I wish all genealogy searches ended like this, but not always that successful.
Tom Buchanan
-
Im not sure how far you have gone back with the Burnsides since this query started but want to say there are some good records on FreeREG :)
-
Thanks Trish. Always worth another look incase there is something new or ive missed info.
Fiona