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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: vabbott on Saturday 16 June 07 20:03 BST (UK)
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My GGG Grandfather was George smith mackie
supposedly son of a distiller Mother Amelia Mackie Father wiliam smith born in insch Aberdeen
in 1837 Can anyone hepl me find out who his grandparents were I cannot find a birth record for amelia
Any pointers would help please
Ronnie
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Hi vabbott,
Firstly, when was George born? And where? I suggest looking for him on the early censuses of his life, when he is likely to be with his mother if she is still living, and then you might discover her birth place.
Nina
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Hi Ronnie
In addition locating him and his family on the censuses as Nina has suggested , the quickest way to find out the grandparents is probably to locate the parents' death certificates - that is assuming that they died Jan 1855 or after.
Gadget
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Hi All
I think Ronnie has given George's birth details in his first post (1837 in Insch Aberdeenshire). Parents Amelia MacKie and William Smith (reputedly) were not married.
This is Amelia and George maybe with her parents (g/parents or other family?) - everyone showing as born in the county:
MACKIE William 76, Pauper
CRUICKSHANK Jane 71
MACKIE Amelea 25
SMITH George 2
Address: Foudland (Brae Of), Insch
Regards.
Monica
PS: There is also a William Smith by the way in Aberdeen who shows as Distiller. Have you seen this entry?
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Amelia and son George in 1851:
Amelia MacKie 32, Teacher Of Reading Writing Dressmaker, b. Insch
George Smith 12, b. Insch
Address: Katherine, Aberdeen South
Can't easily see her in 1861. She may have married over this period.
Ronnie, what info do you have on George. When did he marry for example. Maybe his marriage cert. can provide some clues as to Amelia (whether she was alive or dead for example) that would let you search for her death cert. on Scotlands People which should include her parents' names as indicated by Gadget.
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Monica :) and Ronnie
I've just found an interesting possible marriage . It's the only Amelia Mackie marriage in Aberdeen around the time:
1858, Amelia Mackie to Alexander Fyfe, Old Machar, Aberdeen 168 Vol 2 Page 30
Worth a seach for her on the 1861?
Gadget
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Hi again
I haven't found them on the 1861 but, you know me Monica, I looked at the marriage cert ;D ;D ;D
29 January 1858 at 21 Golden Square - Church of Scotland forms
Alex Fyfe, 59, Mason, widower, 37 St Andrews St, Aberdeen and
Amelia Mackie, 44, dressmaker, spinster, 31 Chapel Lane, Aberdeen. Parents - William Mackie, farmer, deceased and Jane, maiden surname Cruikshank
Seems to tie in with your 1841 find, Monica, and, as she would have been 25-29 then , it fits with her age :)
So where were they on the 1861 - did Alexander die, did they emigrate ???
Gadget
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Well done Gadget (I've just finished supper ;)). I did try the index for Alexander and Amelia in 1861 but couldn't see anything for them. Nor can I see a death for Amelia (and that was searching for an *m*l*/ m*ck*/fyfe! Maybe I should also have used wild cards on the Fyfe! The only death showing in her age group ( with a large range 1810-30) was this one:
1882 FYFE EMILY MCKECHNIE F 71 MILTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/08 0120
Which of course is nothing like McKay and variants.
I'll have another go later with the later censuses and see if anything shows there. What was Alexander Fyfe's age and occupation?
Monica
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59 in January 1858 and a mason. I'll check as well but everything is going very slow :-\
Gadget
Added - nothing so far - deaths, re-marriage, 1861 or 1871 - Scotland or England :(
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No sign at all of Amelia in 1861. The Emily Fyfe (mKechnie) I think I have found born Glasgow so that rules her out (also with children) ???
Added: and she is not this one:
Deaths 1886 FYFE AMELIA F 68 ST PETER DUNDEE CITY/ANGUS 282/01 0038
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On the positive side ;), this looks like the parents' marriage/banns, actual extract from the OPRs on IGI:
WILLIAM MACKIE and JANE CRUICKSHANKS Marriage: 21 APR 1799 Cairnie By Huntly, Aberdeen, Scotland AND 05 MAY 1799 Gartly, Aberdeen, Scotland
Only one submitted entry for a child, Elizabeth born c. 1814 in Aberdeen.
Monica
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she's certainly not the Dundee one :'(
It might be worth trying for a William Smith - Inch area :-\
Gadget
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I think you mean George (William was the Daddy!). I'm hoping Ronnie will join us at some point with further info. Haven't been able to find George either (checked also on SP's 1881 index) under both SMITH and M*CK*.
Monica
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Think I'm getting my names mixed up there - glad I didn't search :-[*
I'd like to know when/where Ronnie picks George Smith Mackie up - it would help in the searches.
Everything is very slow tonight - including RC. Think I might give up until it gets up to speed :-\
Gadget
* added - no I'm not - I meant William - the father!
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This was the entry I found in 1841 for a William Smith, Distiller, as per Ronnie's first post:
William Murray 35, moshman (?)
Ann Smith 20, female serv.
Eliza Smith 75, Ind
Jane Smith 50, Ind
William Smith 40, Distiller
Address: Jericho Distillery, Culsamond
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So born circa 1796-1801 - was he born county?
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Yes he was. This is him in 1851 with a bit more detail:
William Smith 56, Far Of 80 Acres Emp / Lab's 8 Distiller, b. Oyne Aberdeenshire
Jane Smith 34, wife, b. Chapel, Aberdeenshire
Elizabeth Smith 92, mother, b. Tough, Aberdeenshire
William Wilson 30
Isabel Anderson 18
George Barry 30
John Craig 22
James Lawrence 25
John McKensie 28
Elizabeth Nelson 21
William Simpson 17
Address: Jericho, Culsamond
The other people listed are all servants/employees.
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Possible marriage for William on the OPRs:
WILLIAM SMITH Marriages: Spouse: JANE BISSET
Marriage: 20 JUN 1847 Culsalmond, Aberdeen, Scotland
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I've been looking for a death - nearest is in parish of Fyvie in 1868 aged 74 :-\
I don't see any baptisms at the moment. I assume you've searched - lots of father 'John Smith' but no mention of an Elizabeth but not uncommon in those days :-\
Gadget
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Yes, right marriage. Entry from SP's Wills & Testaments following William's death:
Smith William 08/04/1873 Farmer and distiller at Jericho T. Misc. Papers incl. Jane Bisset or Maitland 08/ Aberdeen Sheriff Court Wills SC1/37/71
37 pages :o - excellent value for money to view them at £5!...always assuming we have the right William for George's father of course ;)
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I've been trying to work out how you chose that William. I can't see any reference in Ronnie's previous postings, except that it was William Smith on the first one on this thread :-\
Are there any other possibles at all - I had a quick look and found masses!
Gadget
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From Ronnie's first post:
supposedly son of a distiller Mother Amelia Mackie Father wiliam smith
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Ah - the distiller - missed that :)
Well William who you've found's father was Alexander Smith, farmer and Elizabeth m.s. Rough :)
Gadget
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Is this his death entry (William and Jane were living there in 1871):
1873 SMITH WILLIAM 80 OYNE /ABERDEEN 230/00 0003
I'm not sure how much verification Ronnie has managed to find in respect of George's father. Finger's crossed there's something there for him to work with.
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Yes that's where I got the parents from - wife Jane Bissett - only one in 1873 of the right kind of age!
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So Amelia's parents were: William`Mackie and Jane Cruikshank
and William's parents were probably Alexander Smith and Elizabeth Rough
Gadget :)
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Let's see now what Ronnie can add. I'm curious as to where George ended up now ::)
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:)
Worked well again, Monica :)
I'm interested in what happened to Amelia :-\
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HI
Havent you all been having a busy time on my account I am new to this so Help!! if i seem too slow I am so amazed to get any response so ask away what can I tell you
Ronnie
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Ummmmmmmmmmm ???
I think we might have been telling you, Ronnie, or at least answering your question!
What happened to Amelia?
Gadget
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George came to england at some stage I wonder if by boat Because I first pick him up by his marriage Certificate He married Esther Howard from Thorrington in Essex on the 18th April 1868 in Reigate Surrey where they both worked at the new Lunatic Asylum as Tailors They had a son William Smith Mackie born in Reigate another son Frank Howard Mackie who was born at 259 Geroge Street Aberdeen 12th September 1874 and a daughter Alice Maud Mackie also born in Reigate
When Frank was born George's occupation was now given as a Photographer which he remained for the rest of his life When he died in 1885 he was running A phographers business here in Colchester No mention at any time of Amelia :'(
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Thank you so much for all that information, Ronnie.
Gadget :)
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It should be "Thankyou" to you two I was so gobsmacked to get the replies!!!!!!!
I had ,like yourself looked, at William Smith Distillery at Jericho there is a very good webb site for it and I also managed to get a book from the local library with Pictures I was try ing hard to get some kind of proof really that he was Georges Father and not just assume which I can be very good at The Distillery was not far from where they were living when George was born so I wondered if maybe Amelia was working at the Distillery Maybe seeing your notes I should try looking for Elizabeth to see if she was Amelias sister I seem to remember that on his Baptism there was another Mackie christened the same day Maybe a cousin :-\ It seemed a small village I was also told that if The fathers name was on the birth certificate he probably would have had to pay maintenace for the child through the church by Scottish law is this correct and would it show in church records somewhere
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Hi vabbott
I was interested to see you mention a website and book with information about William Smith's distillery at Jericho. My GGGG Grandfather is the William Murray 35, mashman, working with him in 1841 mentioned in MonicaLesl's earlier post.
Do you still have a note of the site and book title or any other information you've managed to find about the distillery? My William continued to work as a brewer and distillery foreman in Oldmeldrum and Aberdeen until his death from cirrhosis of the liver - probably an occupational hazard!
Cheers
Gary
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Hi Gary
nice to meet you
The site I looked at was Lost distilleries 1885-1945
and the book was Scotch Missed-The Lost Distilleries of Scotland written by Brian Townsend He has written a second one both listed in the Aberdeen Family History Society and also in Libraries
I searched on google for both Jericho and Benachi which is what the name changed to and there are a few sites out there which give a small mention I seem to remember there is mention a small museum in one of the still standing Buildings which I must look into as there may be a picture somewhere of William Smith He may not have married Georges mother but he is still his blood relative so I gusess I will be following this up again soon I am still trying to find Amelia's death.........Ho Hum!.........I guess she could also have known your William Did he come from Culsamond
Anyway hope I have helped Happy hunting....
Ronnie
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Thanks for those links Ronnie - I'll follow them up
From what I can gather from the Sites and Monuments Record, the old Gauger's house is still lived in and the Bonded warehouse still stands but much of the rest of the distillery has been altered or demolished. I live not too far away so I'll maybe take a detour past it some day!
My William Murray wasn't from Culsalmond but from Forgue, about 15 miles away where his wife and children remained while he lived and worked at the distillery, but he would have certainly known your forebears in such a small community.
Cheers
Gary
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glad to have been of help Do let me know if you manage to
go I would be interested in what you find Take care :)
ronnie
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Hi Ronnie,
I hope that this is the thread you were looking for! ;D
Annabel.
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yes brilliant .thank you so much Its all coming back to me now ;D ;D
Yes I guess I must focus more on writing this stuff down ha
Ronnie :)
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Oh goodie ;D ;D
Annabel.
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Hi again
I haven't found them on the 1861 but, you know me Monica, I looked at the marriage cert ;D ;D ;D
29 January 1858 at 21 Golden Square - Church of Scotland forms
Alex Fyfe, 59, Mason, widower, 37 St Andrews St, Aberdeen and
Amelia Mackie, 44, dressmaker, spinster, 31 Chapel Lane, Aberdeen. Parents - William Mackie, farmer, deceased and Jane, maiden surname Cruikshank Good morning peeps
I am picking this thread up again in the hope that someone ccan give me some fresh ideas I am still, yes still ,searching for the deaths of Amelia and Alex. I did at one time find Alex on a census in Hospital in Aberdeen but I cant find my paperwork They seem to have vanished off the face of the earth Have checked all possible records on scottish site and ancestry Also a friend who visits scotland quite regularly has tried in vain Also I never did find a birth record for the Elizabeth Mackie which you mention born 1814 Do you think this could have been amelia? I am determined not to give up the search but just need some more Pointers in another direction i think
Thanks
Ronnie :(
Seems to tie in with your 1841 find, Monica, and, as she would have been 25-29 then , it fits with her age :)
So where were they on the 1861 - did Alexander die, did they emigrate ???
Gadget
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On the positive side ;), this looks like the parents' marriage/banns, actual extract from the OPRs on IGI:
WILLIAM MACKIE and JANE CRUICKSHANKS Marriage: 21 APR 1799 Cairnie By Huntly, Aberdeen, Scotland AND 05 MAY 1799 Gartly, Aberdeen, Scotland
Only one submitted entry for a child, Elizabeth born c. 1814 in Aberdeen.
Monica
Hi Monica, Looking back on this what evidence did you find for Elizabeth Birth are there records do you think it could be a sister of Amelia
Ronnie...........9yes I am still looking for her lol
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Hi Ronnie, sometimes you spend years on the same person ::)
The entry I mentioned so long ago from IGI was a submitted member entry to LDS/IGI so likely there is not going to be an actual record to be found but the entry was submitted by a family member. Clearly showed as a submitted entry rather than extract from original local records.
Monica