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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: lil growler on Friday 15 June 07 13:49 BST (UK)
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Hi there
I'm have been wondering why my ancestors don't come with middle names. Is this common or is there a reasonable explanation. It seems strange to me ( not so strange I guess, if I only had one ). Does it perhaps relate to which country they were born.
Can anyone provide an answer.
Thanx
lil
PS I realise my ancestors aren't the only one's with one name.
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Hello Lil
I've noticed that in my part of Scotland (the North-East) middle names didn't become popular until the1850's onwards. There might be one or two instances in e.g. the 1820's but in the main, middle names were just not given. In fact, if ever I see someone claiming to have an ancestor with a middle name pre-1850 I become highly sceptical, if not downright suspicious! (Sometimes you see this on the submitted info on the IGI.)
I wonder if middle names were seen, with typical Scottish pragmatism and dislike of 'put-on' or getting above your station, as an affectation? There may have been a feeling that only posh folk had middle manes and ordinary folk didn't need such nonsense?
Just a theory!
Trish
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Good point Trish.
Best wishes from Dave Worthington-Smythe Forrest. ;)
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I see someone claiming to have an ancestor with a middle name pre-1850 I become highly sceptical, if not downright suspicious!
I have several and am named after one of them ;)
In some families the use of a middle name was sometimes used as a means of passing on the mothers maiden name but it varied from family to family as well as region to region and could also be influenced by those marrying into a family bringing the traditions of their own to add on. In my own experience the Irish influence is the earliest with the "purely" Scottish lines not taking up this tradition until the latter stages of the 19th century, but as I said it varied from family to family with no strict rules of protocol or procedure.
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Hello again
Thank you for you replies.
Good point Trishmac-ancestors may have felt bound by status. It's interesting to discover the norms of another country/s way of life. It almost feels like we know the people we are researching with each bit of information we receive or discover.
The mention from you Falkyrn about the mothers maiden name being passed on as a middle name prompted me to recheck my tree. I found two ancestors with maiden middle names but I had presumed that they were hyphened surnames. I'll have to change my search strategy for those two.
What I found interesting was my Gr grandfather, born in Ireland, married and had one child ( no middle name ) in Scotland, immigrated to New Zealand and his second child was given a middle name.
with thanks
lil
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A good site to find middle names is the following:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/
Scroll down to the middle names section and then click on Scotland. You can then search for middle names alphabetically within each county.
This site can be very useful indeed - especially if you are tracing a rare name.
Here is one family I am researching:
Robert PHILP m Margaret LOCHTIE in Fife.
Their children:
Jane PHILP 1822
John PHILP 1824
Robert Lochtie PHILP 1825
Margaret PHILP 1827
Andrew PHILP 1829
Elisabeth PHILP 1831
Janet Lochtie PHILP 1833
William Lochtie PHILP 1835
Of course middle names were not always family names. As I recall, I've come across this particular middle name (Lochtie - very uncommon) where, in one case it was used to honour a particular friend, and in another honoured the minister who christened the child ...
JAP
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JAP has made some very valid points concerning the origins of middle names.
Personally, I believe it is always best to have an open mind during your research as there is no one size fits all rule that applies when dealing with people.
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Hello JAP
What a little beauty this site is. Very innovative.
Great street directions you gave and I see two of your family members are there. Since I've gained so much information on my ancestors from Rootschat members, I need to take the time to organise what I have and put it all in order ( I have bits of paper everywhere ) Then... my next mission is to search the site you've recommended.
Thanks for the lead.
lil
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I have to agree with you Falkyrn. I've been caught out a few times for being one eyed in my search. Thankfully others who have helped are more broad minded ( It's starting to rub off )
lil
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My great uncle baptised Francis Townsend b1890 in Scotland managed for the first 20 odd years of his life without a middle name.
Suddenly at the start of WW1 he acquired the middle name Melville.
I have yet to find a connection anywhere in the family with that name :-\
Sylvia
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lil,
Middle names can help with further links.
For instance, re the middle name 'Lochtie' from Fife which you apparently looked at.
John Lochtie BROWNE and Thomas Lochtie BROWN are both great-nephews of 'my' Margaret (LOCHTIE) PHILP - sons of her niece (daughter of Margaret's brother John) Jane (Jeannie) LOCHTIE b 1828 who married George BROWN. When Jane died in 1914, she was recorded with the middle name of 'Harley' - the maiden surname of her Gran (the mother of 'my' Margaret and her brother John)!
And William Lochtie WILSON was another great-nephew of Margaret - son of her brother's daughter Elizabeth (sister of the Jane who m BROWN) who married George WILSON.
Those middle names can be an enormous help :D Though sometimes quite misleading :(
JAP
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The use of middle, or even two or more middle, names can vary greatly even within a family. My great-grandparents (Canadian) had six daughters and gave 1st, 3rd, 5th girls 2 names and 2nd & 4th girls only a first name. Seventh child was a boy and he got 2 middle names.
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The use of middle, or even two or more middle, names can vary greatly even within a family. My great-grandparents (Canadian) had six daughters and gave 1st, 3rd, 5th girls 2 names and 2nd & 4th girls only a first name. Seventh child was a boy and he got 2 middle names.
I've seen this, too. Most often in my family they have seemed to run out of steam at the end of a large family - so for example the first child might have three names including mother's maiden name, 2nd-7th get two names and by the time they get to the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and more it's all they can do to think of one name!
Anna
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Just to side track a wee bit and to add confusion I have a relative called 'Catherine Donald' who called her two children 'Catherine' and 'Donald'.Lucky she had a son and a daughter or they may have been the chance she called a daughter Donald!, regards Billy.
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Here's hoping I have a few pleasant surprises when I start to search for middle names. It could become quite interesting.
It seems that my Great grandfather George strayed from tradition in two ways. The first ( at this stage ) to give his second son ( my grand dad )a middle name and the second to discontinue passing down the name George. ( his father and grandfather are George also ). I must remember he was married, so his wife may have been the influence in these decisions.
And Billy how did your relative end up with the name Donald. Was it her mothers maiden name.
Cheers
lil
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My great uncle baptised Francis Townsend b1890 in Scotland managed for the first 20 odd years of his life without a middle name.
Suddenly at the start of WW1 he acquired the middle name Melville.
I have yet to find a connection anywhere in the family with that name :-\
Sylvia
Both my grandfather's used different names to the ones they were registered with at birth. Luckily I knew about the changes before I started tracing their families. One changed middle name from Dana to Davis (and gave second son that middle name)- Dana was his father's middle name and Davis was the name of a teacher or close family friend. Other grandfather didn't have a middle name but in, I think his teens after his father died, took his great-grandmother's maiden name as a middle name- he also named his 2nd son after himself.
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Thanks Aghadowey
I think the name Melville must have come from some sort of teacher or mentor for Francis Townsend.
I have gone back through parents, grandparents, g/grandparents and even one set of gg/grandparents for him with no mention of the name.
Very odd! :-\ though it's made him easier to find and verify paperwork on :)
Sylvia
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Hi again
I find the replies I've been reading are quite fascinating and have taken a back seat to read only as this is all new to me and I don't have my own to add. Personally I think it would be great to be named after an ancestor and have that sense of connection ( so long as it wasn't Donald he! he!). Sorry Billy ( being a woman ) the name wouldn't suit me.
It's appears traditions vary from country to country. But the use of a middle name would ( in most cases, I imagine ) help distinguish between all family members especially if the mother or fathers names were passed down to the children.
Thanks for the insights
lil