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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Louise Mumford on Friday 15 June 07 00:59 BST (UK)

Title: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Louise Mumford on Friday 15 June 07 00:59 BST (UK)
My great-grandfather, Cornelius John Townsend, married Sarah Thompson in 1902 at St Luke's, Weaste, Salford, aged 21; I have a copy of their marriage certificate, and I know that this is the right couple (other family members are sure she came from Penrith, and this is given as her birthplace on the 1891 and 1901 censuses). She does age rather rapidly on marriage, going from 16 in 1901 to twenty in 1902, however..
The problem is, I can't find a trace of him anywhere else. I can't find a birth for him, nor find him on any census. On the marriage certificate, his father is given as James Townsend, deceased, a manager, and his address is given as the same as that of his wife's family. I can imagine him escaping a couple of censuses, but registration of his birth as well?
 
I'm not sure where to go next with this, and the older members of the family don't seem to know anything of his origins. He was an extraordinary man, a steel erector who went from going round with a wheelbarrow and ladder to founding a very successful firm which erected a lot of buildings in the Manchester area after the war ; he was a mayor of Salford, and got the OBE. I just about remember him from when I was very small, a formidable little man.
I've managed to trace other branches of the family back to the early 17th century in some cases, and it seems daft that I can't even start with someone I actually knew! Can anybody help?

Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: willow2670 on Friday 15 June 07 01:58 BST (UK)
Hi Louise

1891 census RG12/2965 Folio 105
James Townsend Head 48 Widr b Landon Hills? Essex    Dock labourer
Emily Dau 21 b Manchester
Sarah Ann Dau 14 b Liverpool
John James Son 12 b London
William Son 10 b London
Cornelius Son 8 b Liverpool
Jane Dau 7 b Liverpool
1c Bower St, Kirkdale, Lancashire

Sue
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: willow2670 on Friday 15 June 07 02:25 BST (UK)
1881 census RG11/1758 Folio 33
Sarah Townsend Inmate 31 M b Ireland    Wife of Ag Lab
Emily 11 b Liverpool
Sarah 4 b Liverpool
John 2 b Basildon, Essex
William 5mths b Basildon, Essex
"Union Workhouse" Billericay, Essex
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: JDGen on Friday 15 June 07 17:51 BST (UK)
Hi Louise,

There is a Cornelius William TOWNSEND on FreeBMD June 1882 Liverpool 8b 63...

Jean
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: JDGen on Friday 15 June 07 17:57 BST (UK)
Oh dear, could this be James in 1881:

RG11 1877 56 Page 15, HM Prison, St Helens Street, Ipswich, Suffolk:

James TOWNSEND, Prisoner, Unmarried [?], 36, Gen Lab born Essex Lanidon Hills?

Jean
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Louise Mumford on Sunday 17 June 07 20:49 BST (UK)
Thanks Willow and JDGen! I had seen the census entry, but disounted it because the name was wrong (silly me)

The plot has actually thickened somewhat over the weekend; I've been grilling the older relatives again  It seems he might well have been baptised Cornelius William, apparently he didn't like the fact that his initials would be CWT (the abbreviation for hundrendweight, why on earth would that bother him??), so he could have changed it.
A newspaper cutting (which they can't find but remember the details!) from when he was made mayor said that he was born in Tooting, but came north when he was 3. No-one has mentioned Liverpool yet, though.

If that is his father, I absolutely LOVE the idea of James being in prison (although I'm less enamoured of his family being in the workhouse, poor things)/ SO far, all my ancestors have been unremittingly dull and worthy. I've been longing for a black sheep to turn up!
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Louise Mumford on Sunday 17 June 07 21:04 BST (UK)
I think it's looking more likely that the Liverpool one is him; the relatives came up with a birthday of May 9th, and I've just checked the April-June quarter from 1877-1885 on Ancestry, and he's the only Cornelius Townsend there. And although he wasn't born in Tooting, the family has come form the South.

Heavens!  Southerners in the family...


Update:  I just confirmed it. I searched for James on the IGI, and found him, Langdon Hills, Essex. When I searched on the batch number, I discovered that amongst his 9 brother and sisters, as well as a Henry Cornelius, there's a Cornelius William.....

I've a bit of Essex Girl in me!
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: JDGen on Sunday 17 June 07 21:45 BST (UK)
Well done Louise and glad you're not worried about the prison thing!

You never know when you post this information....

Jean
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Louise Mumford on Sunday 17 June 07 22:00 BST (UK)
Much more of a shock to find ancestors from the South!  ;)

Thanks very much for the prison information, JD, as I'm not sure I would have found it. I can go back on the IGI several generations from James, so plenty there to check!

Thanks again, both


Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: JDGen on Sunday 17 June 07 22:03 BST (UK)
 ;D Louise - keep you busy for a while then!
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Louise Mumford on Friday 30 January 09 22:48 GMT (UK)
Thanks to the 1911 census, I know that Cornelius William is definitely him, as it is there in his own handwriting - born Liverpool; he must have decided to "lose" his family after that.

Since originally posting, I have gone back a generation, and made contact with a few people on Genes Reunited who have connections with this family. If anyone on here has a connection, I'd be glad to hear from them
John Townsend (born Horndon-on-the-Hill, Essex), and his wife Sarah had children John, James Henry, Henry, Maria, Cornelius William, Catharine Emily, Thirza, Joshua and Phoebe Eliza, most of whom were born in Langdon Hills
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: chrishurd on Monday 03 October 11 12:59 BST (UK)
Hi
I have been looking up my family tree and came across this site. I think we might have the same great grand father. My grandmother was married to his son Arthur Vincent Townsend but got divorced and re-married. My mothers dad was lord mayor of salford between 1942-1943 Cornelius Townsend. If you get this e-mail me at (*).
I hope to hear from you
Regards
Chris

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Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Louise Mumford on Monday 03 October 11 20:42 BST (UK)
Definitely the same family!
Have emailed you
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Community1 on Sunday 22 November 20 22:01 GMT (UK)
I am the great granddaughter of Cornelius John Townsend. Happy to swap information I have. Not sure how we get in touch?


Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: trystan on Monday 23 November 20 09:17 GMT (UK)
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Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: mrcakey on Monday 23 November 20 15:18 GMT (UK)
There are a few articles in the British Newspaper Archive relating to him. Worth digging through.
Title: Re: I can't find my great-grandfather
Post by: Ian Slater on Wednesday 20 July 22 08:25 BST (UK)
Hi Louise
I am the great grandson of Cornelius, be glad to explain more, but newly registered so I can’t pm you, Hill/Slater family.

Ian