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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: JoJoBuggins on Wednesday 13 June 07 18:08 BST (UK)
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I think mack may be right. I've downloaded & enlarged the pic, & I'm sure I can see fingernails! Perhaps a post on the photo restoration board to ask one of clever people on there to take a look, The graphics programs they use will be much better at showing detail.
Betty
Just wondered if you clever restorers could try and solve this puzzle of whether Charles is or is not wearing a glove OR is it a case of a really bad shadow. Betty suggested that I try this board,knowing how clever you all are.
Jo
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I agree with Betty I think its his hand as I can also see fingernails...I think ;D
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Thanks ;D
Which fingernail can you see? ;D
Jo
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You are going to hate me for saying this -
I think its a leather glove.
I have blown it up and you would normally get skin creases round the knuckles on a hand, the same as his other one, but there are no knuckle creases on the "gloved" hand. As for the fingernail, it is shadowed but there is no nail visible, so I would say its a pair of very fine leather gloves - or rather one very fine leather glove!
jc
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Jc
Many thanks for clearing that up, I put a post on the Armed Forces board, asking what was the significance of wearing one glove
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,238194.0.html
Must have dropped other glove on the way to the photographers :P
Jo
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Just a thought, but he also could have burned his hand quite badly at some point during his time in the service and felt more comfortable with a glove. I agree, I think it is a glove.
;)
Joy
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;D I suppose we'll never know what happened to the other one ;D
I can understand an officer having gloves made of such fine leather, which I imagine were expensive, but a corporal? Perhaps they were a gift, so it's a shame if he lost one :)
Betty
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;D I shall sleep soundly tonight ;D
Jo
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Hello JoJo,
More posibilities :
It's a false hand :(
He took his other glove off to show his wedding ring :)
He has just been changing the oil on his lorry and he put his hand in the oil ! ;D
He just found the glove , hoping to find the other one :o
Jim
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A - it could be a badly scarred/damaged hand
B he took the glove off the other hand to sign or pay upfront for the portrait
C he didn't want to leave fingerprints :o
D he was a clean freak and didn't know who else had put their hands on the prop ;D
but he may just have forgot to put it back on and the camera man didn't notice.
you will never know..................
jc
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Hi Jo,
I would think that it is a false arm and hand.
If you look at the sleeve etc. it is not "filled out" as you
would expect. This is more apparent at the elbow which
doesn't look natural.
Tomkin
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P.S.
He looks 'armless,
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D
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Jo, have you got the photo? Can you scan his hand at a high resolution (say 600dpi) and post just that bit here?
Prue
P.S. Tomkin ::) ::) ::) !!!
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Hi Jo,
I would think that it is a false arm and hand.
If you look at the sleeve etc. it is not "filled out" as you
would expect. This is more apparent at the elbow which
doesn't look natural.
Tomkin
I used to know someone who had a prosthetic arm from elbow down and her hand was moulded so that she could at least attempt to pick things up, (think holding a glass) .. this was back in the late 1980s. It wasn't a mechanical hand just static. If this was false would the hand be shaped in that way?
Were they that good with prosthetics c1918-20? to make the hand seem life-like (also the same size as the other one) - enough to have us all guessing.
The sleeve does appear to be a bit looser than the other one though :-\
jc
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If this was false would the hand be shaped in that way
Yes!
Were they that good with prosthetics c1918-20? to make the hand seem life-like
Definitely Yes!
Tomkin :)
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If you can find his service record at the National Archives it should tell you what injuries he sustained.
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Hi Jo,
( GOOD one Bearkat)
I was going to say that surely someone in your family would have referred to the
fact that he had something missing.
I 've enlarged it and enhanced it and the colour would appear to be dark and
the skin very smooth. So it's best guess time I'm afraid.
Tomkin :)
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Ahhh a prosthetic hand... that would make sense as I thought it was just too smooth for a glove yet didn't look quite right for a hand. Interesting.....
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Can anyone see anything that looks like a seam or sewing on it? I'm still not convinced it's a glove, I agree with niksmum, it's too smooth, & it's too close-fitting, almost like a modern latex-type material.
Betty
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I think, the only thing we can agree on - is that it doesn't look natural ;D
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I think, the only thing we can agree on - is that it doesn't look natural
I think it does ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tomkin ;D ;D
P.S. Just been looking at some WW1 Prosthetic hands made out of Willow Wood.
Very realistic but also very light coloured.
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I did too ;D ;D
the bit that worries me about it being a prosthetic is the wrist angle and the little finger is bent :-\
true I can't see any seams for it to be a glove apart from around the top of the thumb and middle finger looks like there could be a seam.
I also have a problem with the joint of the index finger. Try and put your hand in the same position - does your knuckle joint stand up higher than the other knuckles in the same way? mine doesn't.
Totally confused now, Jojo has gone to bed happy but we won't be able to sleep trying to work it out lol! ;D ;D
night all!
jc
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Hi Jojo
Gave him a clean up.
I think it's a false hand, try and duplicate the pose, (I've sat in my office for the last couple of minutes making hand signals ;D ::) ::) ). The remain knuckles don't appear to be positioned correctly. :-\ I also think I can see a seam between the thumb and index finger :-\ :-\
Caz
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I agree Betty - it has a latex look.
Remember we had another similar query about whether the groom in a wedding photo had a false arm or not - in fact it looked like a block of wood at the end of the sleeve but we didn't solve that one either ::) ::).........
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;D Many, many thanks for all your fantastic replies, think I'm even more confused now :-\
Jim and Jc, what a double act you are, you should be on stage, though you have probably been told that hundreds of times :D
JC hope you slept well, I did ;)
I have contacted a member of the family with regard to the hand, will let you know when I know more
But... according to my other rootschat, there is nothing on his service record to say that he was injured, that isn't to say that he wasn't at a later date
This will probably be one of those questions that we will never know the answer to
Caz thank you very much for the clean up, looks good and I know what you mean about the hand, something just doesn't look right
Betty, Niksmum and Emmeline - those were my thoughts when I first saw the photo, tightfitting, very smooth, was studying it for ages, then I was still stumped :-\
I could do with a smiley scratching his head
Jo
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I think it is his hand ...sorry ...and he bites his fingernails ...!lolIt may just be a trick of the light I've just dodged the area of that hand and it looks like a hand to me .Intriguing isnt it... It could have been just a bruised hand ! :o ;D We will never know ...but I 'm pretty sure it isn't a gloved hand :P :P ;D
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I've downloaded the pic with just the hand, & for want of something else to try I turned it into a negative image, and I'm still sure I can see fingernails ;D
This is going to drive us nuts ;D ;D
Betty
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Polldoll
Fantastic, Ive tried to enlarge the picture myself, decided to wait until son came home, having a bad day today, and then I saw yours, thank you ;D
Very much doubt that it is a glove, now Ive seen it blown up, the hand looks very swollen though. :(
Very intriguing.... as for biting his nails, youve got better eyesight than me, but then again I bite mine now and again :P
Jo
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Betty
;D Can't drive me nuts, I already am, lol :P ;D
Jo
Just had another look with magnifying glass, and yes I'm positive that you can see his fingernails
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JoJo,
Why not put it on the Military board , maybe they can give you a helping hand , so to speak !
Jim
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...maybe they can give you a helping hand...
::)
meles
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Just to add my 2penn'orth, I think it's a prosthetic. It's obviously a studio shot and none of my family pictires done in a studio have shadows as bad as that one would be. I see what is meant after enlargement, I feel that is a red herring because it's still extremely dark. I knew someone with a prosthetic hand and I don't remember the seams being visible
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I to think its prosthetic, if you notice in the blowup he seems to have his little finger double under which means that all the weight of his arm would be on that one knuckle. very uncomfortable if its a real hand.
Its a very well modeled hand though.
peterbennett
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Surely if it was possible to mak a hand looking that good then ... they would have been able to make it a better matching colour too!!! I can still see what look like fingernails.. ;) ;D
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Those blasted fingernails ;D ;D ;D ;D
That mention of colour has triggered a very faint memory of reading somewhere about someone needing a false limb, & was told to help themselves from a pile of limbs & hope to find one of the right size. If it happened to be the wrong colour, hard luck!!!
Betty
Surely if it was possible to mak a hand looking that good then ... they would have been able to make it a better matching colour too!!! I can still see what look like fingernails.. ;) ;D
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I think his hand is damaged or disfugured in some way...it doesn't look like a glove to me...the hand looks very swollen and unnatural...and they certainly look like fingernails in the enlargement ???
T.T.
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It looks to me as if the man is resting the heel of his hand on part of the gate which is shaped, higher up than that of the horizontal line shown further down where his little finger is !! Ooooer isn't this fun ... especially with Jojo doing her impression of Sherlock Holmes ... Magnifying glass an' all !! But do take off the deerstalker hat !! It just doesn't do anything for you ! ;D ;D
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He probably would be in hysterics if he saw what we were all talking about today ... and say that he was so pleased to be home he went down the local to celebrate and fell over on the way home, spraining his wrist !! ;) ;) ;D ( no offence intended Jojo :-[ :-X
Poll
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Many thanks for your interesting replies, my dear Watsons,
I had straight hair this morning, gone curly with all confusion, lol ;D
It still does look like they are fingernails on the enlargement, but........even his service record doesnt show anything
Jim, I put it on the Armed Forces Board to start with
It looks to me as if the man is resting the heel of his hand on part of the gate which is shaped, higher up than that of the horizontal line shown further down where his little finger is !! Ooooer isn't this fun ... especially with Jojo doing her impression of Sherlock Holmes ... Magnifying glass an' all !! But do take off the deerstalker hat !! It just doesn't do anything for you ! ;D ;D
Deerstalker hat put away for today and Dr Watson has advised me to stop smoking the pipe!!!! ;D ;D
Poll - no offence taken, Ive often said about them upstairs watching us and laughing as we struggle over these puzzles :( ;)
Jo
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It gives the old grey matter a bit of excercise doesn't it ? We will never know the answer will we ... least not till we ask them ourselves !!
Poll ;) ;D
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least not till we ask them ourselves
I hope it's going to be a long time before I talk to them ;D
Tomkin ;D
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I'm certainly in no rush ;D But when I do go, I'm going with a long list of questions I'd like answers to!
Betty
least not till we ask them ourselves
I hope it's going to be a long time before I talk to them ;D
Tomkin ;D
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Hi Jo - This has been a very interesting thread - given you a lot to think about.
I did think you could have thought of another word rather than stumped though ::) ::)
Perhaps he was giving you a message from the great beyond ???
Hope you find out more........
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I think it is a prosthetic hand/arm - it has a waxed type very smooth sheen to it. I think the hand would have been shaped in a posture to look a bit more relaxed rather than the fingers standing out like fixed digits. When you think what Madame Tussaud could make many years before why not use a wax type finish on a prosthetic ?
On a slightly different note - My father used to suffer with swollen, painful hands with fingers that went podgy and hard to bend and he was sent for wax treatment which involved dipping the hand in hot wax and letting it dry on the hand. That was only back in the 1970s and I remember going to the hospital with him and watching the hot wax treatment. Although I am pretty sure he took it off again before we went home !
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Emmeline :-[ Until you pointed it out, I didnt realise, feel awful now :-[
I did think you could have thought of another word rather than stumped though ::) ::)
Perhaps he was giving you a message from the great beyond ???
Hi Jo - This has been a very interesting thread - given you a lot to think about.
I've been overwhelmed by all the replies, all interesting, certainly given me alot to think about.
I'm certainly in no rush ;D But when I do go, I'm going with a long list of questions I'd like answers to!
Betty
;DSame here, though I wish now I would have listened more to my grandad, he loved telling me about his young days and all his cousins, if only I could remember :(
Many thanks to everyone for their thoughts
Jo
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Just to let you know I have had an email from Charles's granddaughter, she said that she knows nothing about his hand, can't remember her mother ever mentioning it.
But he did get injured in the War and this/these injuries caused her mother's wedding to be brought forward so Charles could walk her down the aisle, this was 1934 and he died 6 months later :'(
So don't think we are any closer to knowing for definite, unless she can remember anything else, heres hoping she can
Jo
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Hello Jo - I certainly didn't mean for you to feel awful :)
Perhaps just to have a little giggle ::)
Have enjoyed the thread........
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I have just found a WW1 picture of an artificial hand
What do you make of this .....
Moderator Comment: Image resized
You can "unattach" an image by unchecking the "Attached" box, and re-attach at a different size
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Sorry everyone I posted the picture too big :-[
Tried to stop it when I realised - but too late.
Will do better this time - but this in this photo the hand looks metallic
Fascinating article though can PM it is required.
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Chesh,
If you want a restore on that one , it will cost $6,000,000 ;D
Just shows you though , there is nothing new !
Jim
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Well Woodentop - on the photo restoration front you are absolutely right but I have to say I'd rather pay the £6mill than go through that.
You see only a hand but look at all the paraphernalia that went with it.
But what you do you think about the likeness to the original photograph ?
mog
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Actually - maybe I am being a bit dim here (my forte!)
The hand would have been made of metal
with a fine leather or rubber type glove over it ?
I think the second detailed photo is showing the metal mechanics of the hand without a glove ?
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Yes I think that is it !
Jim
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I think we ought to give everybody a BIG hand,
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cheshire Mog
Many thanks for the pic of the artifical hand, would have took an age to get ready to go out anywhere, all the paraphernalia.
Makes you wonder now about his hand, could well be an artifical one, must admit I didnt think that they would have looked that good back then
Thanks to each and everyone of you for your input, have really enjoyed your comments :D
Jo
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Hi
Showed my mum the photo, straight away she said, "looks like he has a false hand" :o :o
Couldn't believe it, all the debate we have had about it and she comes straight out with it. :D
Jo
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Does it make things any easier if you compare the two hands side by side? Is the black hand slightly bigger? I'm leaning towards being an artificial hand with a fingernail pattern, however, why would they have the little finger bent in?
Les
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I think they had more skill in those days than we now give them credit for. Certainly when it came to visual effect, but what may have been hidden under the jacket and up the sleeve was quite a different matter.