RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Cynfran on Saturday 09 June 07 20:46 BST (UK)
-
I would be grateful if anyone could provide any information regarding the marriage of my great great grandfather, William Gover Gray, to Mary Wynne. The marriage would have been between 1860 and 1864 and I have not been able to find any record of it anywhere. Mary was living in Chirk at the time and after marriage they settled in Liverpool
-
Hi
I've not found it yet and, unfortunately my Chirk records stop in the 1850s :(. However. it would be in Oswestry Registration District if they married in Chirk, with an outside possibility of Wrexham RD if the married in Rhosymedre which quite a few Chirk couples did. There's nothing on the North Wales BMD.
Regards
Gadget
-
Thanks for trying Gadget.
I'll widen my search to the districts that you mentioned.
Regards
Cynfran
-
Hi Cryfran,
May be barking up the wrong tree here, not very good on Welsh places. There is a Mary Wynne marrying in Llanrwst Caernarvonshire, Denbighshire district in 1861 with no partner. Found her on Ancestry, Marriage 1st quarter, district 11b page 304.
You could always order cert just with the one name.
Hope it helps,
Good luck, Joan
-
Hi Joan
Thanks for the information. Llanrwst is a bit far from Chirk, but perhaps I should be widening my search area anyway!
regards - Cynfran
-
Hi again
It certainly is if she lived in Chirk at the time. Was she born there? If so, I have the records going back to when they began :)
Gadget
-
Hello Cynfran, Hi Gadget.
Couldn't see a marriage for William and Mary in Wrexham or Rhosymedre
1850-1870.
Free bmd has several William Gover Gray's in West Derby. Any relation?
Do you have William and Mary on any census with children? It might help.
Paul.
-
Hi Paul
I also noticed a few Mary Wynne's in West Derby as well but couldn't find a match on the ones that I looked at. Maybe there were others that I missed.
Gadget
-
Hello Paul & Gadget
Thank you both for your efforts.
All the BMD William Gover Grays in West Derby are connected, there's three generations with that name. Mary Wynne's William died West Derby 1874.
William and Mary were in Liverpool 1871 with son WGG born 1864 and daughter Catherine born 1869.
I trust that they did marry as WGG 1864 birth certificate shows mother as 'Mary Gray formerly Mary Wynne".
Regards
Cynfran
-
Hello Cyfran
I've been looking at Mary and her family in the 1861, on the next page (3 households away) is my 3 x Great Grandmother and her second husband :)
I notice that Mary was 19, a dressmaker and born Chirk. I'm sure it might be worth looking for an entry, quarter by quarter, under Oswestry RD for the period. This can be done for free using Ancestry.
Regards
Gadget
-
Hello Gadget
A small (Chirk) world!
I will now head for Ancestry as you suggest, thanks.
Regards
Cynfran
-
Hi Cynfran,
I've just joined this site and spent time looking through the various topics. I have just read your enquiry dated June 2007 and something rang a bell. I have in my family tree Thomas Wynne b. Chirk 1866 married to Catherine Maude Gray b. 1869 and living in West Derby. I think your William Gover Gray also had a daughter Catherine b. 1869 and had West Derby connections.
Is this link just coincidence. I do hope you still visit this site, if only to satisfy my curiosity.
keithwynne
-
Hello Keithwynne
No, it's not a coincidence, Catherine Maud's father William Gover Gray was my great grandfather.
I'll send you a PM to expand on the connection.
Cynfran
-
Hi, did William have an connections in Hawke Street Liverpool. This is not to far from Lime Street where he had an office for some time. I have a pamphlet 'The Oracle of the World' form about 1870 by a William Gray published at Hawke Street Liverpool. Did William have a Grandson Francis Gray born first decade of 1900s in Liverpool?
-
Sorry shemanf, no Hawke Street connection or Francis in the family. Cynfran
-
Thanks for the quick reply. William Gover certainly led a very interesting life. Son of a Surgeon in Bath; Subscriber £500 in shares to the Govt call for subscription to the railways 1837; made bankrupt as a Dentist; moves to Liverpool practices as an Attorney; made bankrupt again when an Insurance Company he was a Director of went into liquidation. I thought he may have been the same William Gray who was the pamphleteer 'The Oracle of the World' about 1870 in Liverpool. As I mentioned I have on of the original pamphlets found on ebay. It is really quite interesting the issue dealing with money and coins and banking matters at the time.
-
He certainly did lead an interesting life! From his track record, probably not the best authority on money matters though! :)
-
Hi shermanf,
I'm probably not adding to anything you don't already know but I was interested to read your comments about William Gover Gray, as his second marriage was to my GG aunt Mary Wynne. They had a daughter Catherine Maud Gray who married my Great Uncle Thomas, who was her cousin.
I cannot find any information relating to either of William Gover Gray's marriages, neither can I find any information about the second wedding of Mary Gray, nee Wynne to George James and living in Liverpool.
Further to Wm Gover Gray, did he really move through five offices in Everto before ending up in Lime Street Liverpool and Tiblane in Manchester?
keithwynne
-
Hi keith, I will check on marriages for you, but it did seem he moved office a lot. There are references in the London Gazette all online to his work. The Legal profession was divided differently in those times and I rather suspect he was using knowledge and appearance to practice rather than qualification. The office moves do seem to be frequent and I did wonder whether he was moving and leaving behind unpaid bills. His early life as a dentist would follow on from his father. It was common in those times for surgeons to trade also as chemists and apothcaries. I find it amusing to note that 200 years later in Bath where WG's father practiced his address is now a Superdrug. At various times he does appear to have had money. His investment of £500 in the railways in 1837 is an example, amd then he loses it. A true Dickensian character. I suspected he may have been the author and publisher of the pamphlet I have and Hawke Street is the address where it was published from, but have no evidence. My Gray ancestors had a house in Hawke Street which is just up from Lime Street Liverpool. However I know little about them. One branch were living off Wavertree Road in the 1920s 30s. Posting details in case they ring bells with anyone reading this.
-
I know this is a long shot but hoping you are still around. My great grandmother was catherine maude wynne born 1896? she lived in liverpool but we think she was from wales. Her mother we thought there was a grey in the family we thought it was her mothers 1st marriage.Could this be any relation to these posts?
-
Hello cmaude
Yes, still here! Not such a long shot after all, William Gover Gray, who was Catherine Maud Wynne's grandfather, was my great grandfather. It makes her my cousin, once removed.
Her mother was Catherine Maud Gray and it was her mother, Mary, who was born in Wales.
I'll send you a private message with contact details in case you want to get in touch via email. Please post again if you don't receive it.
Regards, Cynfran
-
Hello cmaude
The mother of your great grandmother Catherine Maude Wynne, born 1869 was Mary Wynne born in Chirk, Denbighshire in 1842 and married William Gover Gray. Catherine Maude Gray married my great uncle Thomas and lived in Liverpool. She was a sister-in-law to my Grandfather Charles Wynne.
Regards, Keithwynne
-
WOW this is great information. I guess the three of us are related. My great grandmother spoke often fondly of her father and grandfather. By the way I was the last of 5 generations of Catherine Maudes. I named my daughter Sarah Wynne. :)