RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: harewoodhouse on Friday 08 June 07 07:36 BST (UK)
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does anyone have any old photos or any information on the Hamers plumbing shop on Hyde road that I could have a copy of ? my gran grew up above the shop and I would like to know if it is still there and what it looks like now, I only have the one old photo to go by...thanks..sue
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I think you're going to have to tell us the town. :)
Nice photograph, by the way.
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Guessing
Hyde Road Manchester - if so you will find loads and loads of Hyde road photos here
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/
Ken
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opps sorry ..yes manchester, thank you Aulus and kenher, I couldnt get through on that link maybe they are having trouble with the site I will have to try again latter. loved the photo of your gt aunt Aulus why was she the black sheep?...sue
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Hi Sue,
I would be very surprised if it's still there :( Miles of shops along Hyde Road were demolished in the slum clearances of the 1970/80's. The only one's remaining would be on the bit from Belle Vue through to Gorton Market about 150 yards worth. I'll have a drive by when i go to work tomorrow and see if there any likely candidates, but don't hold your breath. I know someone who had a barber's shop on Hyde Rd many moons ago so i will ask if she has any memories.
Best wishes
Tony
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Hi Sue
Have to agree with Tony, was on Hyde road myself the other day - not a lot left.
Try that site again it works for me
Regards
Ken
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LOVE THAT SITE!! shame I cant be really sure but it looks a lot like ...ardwick nth side photo 71 stott and brown plumbers to me... I looked through all my records and found a census with the number I think it says 190 so would that be the ardwick end? what a shame all the old buildings had to go, although it was a fantastic idea and someone with forsight to go and take photos of them all, are the houses they stuck up any better?...I have a list of all the streets that my family have lived on so I am going to have great fun trying to spot the streets on here :D thanks once again, Im off to find ivy,blakey,coulchester and middlewood streets...sue
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Hi Sue, i watched the demolition of these houses/shops and the subsequent demolition, within 20 years, of the ghastly Fort Ardwick flats that replaced them. We never learn :( >:(
Tony
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wow they must of been bad if they didn't even last 20 years...its a shame that the old buildings went, I have old building envy, in NZ they think 100 years is historic ;D I would love one day to go to London and find the London stone, or walk along an old roman road, touch buildings and doorways that you know have been walked through over hundreds of years, walk down a cobble street that my forefathers trod down. I think one of the greatest things england has is its history. I love reading old English history books although they can be hard to get a hold of in NZ but one of my favorite books at the moment is London the biography by peter ackroyd that is a great book you can almost smell how it was.
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Hi Sue,
Had a quick look on the way to work and no sign of it :( but then again i may not have gone far enough :) As you may guess from my search interests we have a lot of Gorton material at work and i've brought some files home to look at. I've located 159 and 177 Hyde Road so have a better idea where to look tomorrow. Also were the Hamer's catholic as i know where lots of records are.
Best wishes
Tony :)
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159 is the Grocers on the left of last shot
177 is the Pawnbrokers on the right of next shot.
:)
Tony
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Hi Sue,
I've located the picture of 71 Stott & Brown plumbers you mentioned earlier and whilst very, very persuasive, i'm not convinced. The window edging details appear different but in everything else including scale it looks about right. I have a number of plumbers shops on Hyde Rd so don't let 'plumber' put you off the track :) I'm re-posting both pics together for others to voice an opinion.
In the meantime there is one thing I'm certain of ;D The chip shop next door but one served the most fabulous mouth watering fish and chips you've ever dreamed of ;D I used to go regularly there for Friday night fish suppers between 1963 and 1973. what my mum ever thought of allowing a 3 old to go for food is beyond me ;D well i may have been a bit older :-[
This row has definitely been demolished and originally was built on the first football home of Manchester City F.C 8)
Catch you 2mrw
Cheers
Tony
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Hi Tony
Great find, but one problem rootschat is in breach of copyright. that photo belongs to Manchester Libraries.
I have asked in the past of Manchester Libraries to use photos from their site on this site as we our family research and non profit forum, and it is OK as long as the photos have not been cropped, copyright removed and a link to the site (not always done the last one) is in place.
Just upload the full picture and we should be safe.
Regards
Ken
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Thanks Ken for the advice, so much appreciated, i'll post original with copyright notice and my 'chippy' next door but one.
Thanks again Ken
:)
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=29884
Tony
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::) hmm now I see them side by side ,yes I think you are right...close but no coconut! the doorway is slightly different and the window and there is no grate in the footpath... I know what you mean about losing a good chippie its a crying shame.
with a pawnbroker and a grocer and a chippie all they were missing was the pub and I am sure they would of been as happy as pigs in muck ;D!
yes Tony the hamers were catholic...please do tell where I can find records on them :)...It is funny I thought my family must of lived near manchester cathedral and had that as their family church as they all seem to have been married baptized etc there :-[ then someone on here told me that the reason for that was that the cathedral charged less then the other places...thats why half of manchester is recorded there ! I cant wait for the dvd on their register to come out so I can track them all down.
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Oh Tony I just went to the Gorton Monastery site :D what a great project to be involved with! I am sure if Alfred Finley Hamer was still alive he would be giving you a hand, although truth be told it was his wife Harriet who did all the lovely leadlight windows and cut the glass. She was often left in charge while Alfred took off on his little overseas adventures, he even came to New Zealand for the fishing!
I was wanting to find out more about an Ellen Pickersgill who was at some point put in a catholic orphanage as her parents appear to have died. In the 1891 census she is down as living at the St Bridget's Orphanage she was 13 then. She married a Hubert Crawley and I have a sneaky suspicion that when Harriet died Ellen married Alfred Finley Hamer and took over raising Harriet's children even though she was Harriet's aunt, but I don't have any proof just some things my grandmother would say , although my grandmother thought Ellen was Harriet's sister as she was only 6 years older then Harriet I can see how she thought that but she was Harriet's mother Emma's half sister and in later census when Emma is married she has taken Ellen in and raising her with her own children.
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Hi Sue,
Closing in on 190 now, there are still some terraced shops in the approx location of 190. I just have to sort out the numbering. The attached map shows 159 and 177 and then on the South side 136 on the extreme right. 190 is out of view but all is not lost as i know the author of this webpage 8) 8) Also Ivy and Middlewood Streets are shown as well.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/d.a.ratcliffe/lhg/vol1/map.html
Best wishes
Tony
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Just noticed some else looking at the name Hamer in a current posting http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,237640.0.html
probably not related - but you never know ;D
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loved the photo of your gt aunt Aulus why was she the black sheep?...sue
We know she's on my dad's side, but don't know which branch (Stevensons/Smiths/Steventons/Nobles/Burtons/Wilds/Holdens) - she was always referred to as someone "we don't talk about".
What little we could get out of my grandparents were that she went to London and was on the stage. The London bit is correct (the photographer was Van der Weyde of Regent Street, though bizarrely somebody has deliberately tried to scratch out his details on the photo) and I think the photo is quite glamorous, so maybe the being on the stage thing is true too. I've been unable to find a likely Florence on any of the censuses attached to known family. All a bit odd!
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Quick update
The OS map for 1960 covering Ardwick and West Gorton shows two 190 addresses, that together with the info on the map i posted earlier suggests three 190 Hyde Road's in a two mile stretch :o
I checked the house numbers for the chippy and plumbers on the 1960 map and they are in the odd 170's range, which means that 190 Hyde Road, Ardwick would have been somewhere opposite, and demolished to make way for the infamous Fort Ardwick.
190 Hyde Road, West Gorton has also been demolished but my friend who had a shop there at 223 Hyde Road has an ownership map of that section when the house numbers were rationalised along its full length. And finally 190 Hyde Road, Gorton i'm still trying to locate the exact position of on a map so i can compare with what's actually left.
As well as the so-called slum clearances there was a lot of demolition to make way for a road widening along the eastern corridor. In the event only about a mile of this was ever built at the eastern end with the resultant planning blight that has dogged this area ever since. I think trying to widen the road under the main Manchester - London railway line may have been the cause of the programme being dropped.
Sue, if you would PM your e-mail i can send you a lively account of life in and around Gorton in 1920's
Best wishes
Tony
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Hi there you may want to check out the Gorton web site full of old pictures. click on the image on the left hand side of the site
http://www.gortonnews.org.uk/
Hope this is of some use to you?
Migky ;)
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And to show Hyde road Gorton in all it's pride, how about this one :o the building on the left hand side of the road is called the Lake hotel this picture was taken looking down Hyde roard towards Manchester.
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
Migky ;)
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;D what a great photo....I just love the bobby!...thanks
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"MOVE ALONG NOW....THEIR IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE !" ;D
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I am amazed at how many people and shops there were but yet not one piece of rubbish to be found, no littler any where? time may have been hard but people seem to have more pride in them selfs.
If you would like any more pictures of Hyde road or of Gorton, please let me know.
Migky ;)
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;D yes all those horses and no MUCK!....maybe there was a bylaw saying you had to carry a bucket or everyone ran out and collected it for their roses.
I love that photo and yes please to any more that you have, I will put them all on a disk and take them over to show my aunt who lives in Australia...she was born and raised in gorton and still misses it.
I have already saved all the photos from the gorton news, what a great site. thank you
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Hi Sue,
No luck with 190 Hyde Road yet i can't quite pinpoint it's position, but the row of terraced shops
still there that i thought were candidates have doors to the left of the shop window. Your row
seems to be the block before which has gone.
If you go back to
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?&irn=30101&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=36845&size=600x452
it should be somewhere behind that bus :D
We have hundreds and hundreds of photos of Gorton but this is my favourite. The Monastery
on the right absolutely dwarfs everything else. Its roof height matches that of the tower of
All Saints on the left. The bell tower has still to be added and this dates the photo to pre 1911.
The picture is of Gorton Park and the bandstand. Notice the little chap in the centre appearing to
mimic the photographer. The lost innocence of youth about to be blighted by two horrendous
World Wars. I often wonder how many of those young men survived. I've downsized the photo
to fit here but will e-mail the original for your collection. Not entirely given up on 190 till i can point
to it on a map. Bee and Bonnet spring to mind. :)
Best wishes
Tony
Migky, pop in and see us sometime, we're almost there. :) :D ;D 8)
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Hi Sue
Sorry I have digressed from your posting, only for a minute ;)
Hi Tony
Which one is you? http://www.gortonmonastery.co.uk/diary.html ;D Only just realized you are involved with this magnificent building - Have always looked up when passing - Sent a few quid to help in the restoration.
Regards
Ken
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Hi Ken,
No, i'm not in the photo, my name is on another page, with photos of staff but my photo is not there. You know how it is, if my pic was there people would know what i look like, and then i'd be constantly stopped for autographs and such like ;D ;D ;D
The website is looking a bit tired after 10 years and the new one will be launched in next days or weeks - i might make a personal appearance then :)
And some praise for you Ken, i keep an eye on the Manchester traffic on this site and when i see a North Manchester, Manchester or Lancashire topic i think 'i'll take a look at that later' only to return a few hours later to see Kenhar has beaten me to it with maps, photos and the favourite meal of the rellie being sought ;D You are mine of information so keep up the good work. You do seem to have a talent with maps/photos. I'll send the approx location of where i think 190 Hyde Road pre 1960 would be and perhaps you can help pinpoint it for Sue.
And if you're passing in the next few weeks, don't look up but pop in. I'd be honoured to show you our treasure, lovingly restored. Advisable to give me a quick call beforehand to ensure i'll be on hand to tell you it's fascinating story and my search for the fabulous friars who created it.
Best wishes
Tony
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;D Hi Tony that disk I will post off today shows all the damage done to the chuches during 1940's :'(...it breaks your heart...glad to see your one is being brought back to life....sue
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Hi tony here are one or two i took of the MONASTERY on my last visit
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
Migky ;)
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HYDE ROAD LOOKING UP TOWARDS DENTON.
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
MIGKY ;)
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AND LOOKING DOWN TOWARDS BELLE VUE BOTH 1920'S.
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
MIGKY ;)
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Hi sue
do you have a WILLIAM HAMER in your tree, all i know is that he married ANNIE BEEVERS in 1921 (Chorlton Registration district,) she was born 1897 in Manchester,
Would love to find more info on the Hamer's side
Best wishes Jo
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:) yes I do have a william hamer I have noted the dates and will check it out tomorrow as it is late (12.30) and I need to hit the hay, gone are the days when I could stay up all night ;) so night all and thanks for those lovely photos I have saved them to put on my disk, and you are right, all those people and no rubbish! mind you they didnt have all the endless plastic packaging that we have today, just good old brown paper bags that could be reused to put the kids lunches in :)
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Just stumbled on this :)
Oh Migky, those photos take me back - not to the 20s mind ::) I remember us going by train to Manchester (Exchange - change at Chester), then walking up to the bus stop just off Piccadilly (via Lewis's, of course) and getting the bus to my Aunty's in Hyde. This would have been the late 40s and the 1950s.
It was so exciting - all those houses and signs painted on the sides of houses, and passing Belle Vue and then arriving at Hyde - I think the bus stop was opposite the Town Hall.
Thanks for the lovely piccies
Regards
Gadget :)
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:) yes I do have a william hamer I have noted the dates and will check it out tomorrow as it is late (12.30) and I need to hit the hay, gone are the days when I could stay up all night ;)
ANY LUCK ?
bw jo
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Hi Sue
This one’s going to run on and on I fear. ???
My friend located Old Ordnance Survey Maps: Gorton & Belle Vue 1905 (edition of 1908) which has extracts from Slaters Directory Manchester & Salford, 1905 printed on the back. This should reveal the positions of both 190 Hyde Rd, West Gorton and 190 Hyde Rd, Gorton. :)
190/192 West Gorton is a double fronted shop located on the corner of Hyde Road/Ashmore St, so clearly that’s out. For the record it is Joseph Motterhead, Baker in the directory. My friend also has a street directory for just West Gorton which shows it was still a bakers in 1965 then numbered 390/92 and owned by Edmonds Bakeries Ltd.
The link to Manchester Library I posted earlier shows Mead T Seymour & Co Ltd clearly on the corner of Oakfield Grove and Hyde Road. (Worth opening this now in another window)
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?&irn=30101&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=36845&size=600x452
The directory lists this as 172 and as Grocers. In theory 190 should be 10 house down to the left. So far so good, then its all downhill. ???
The directory reads
Here is Oakfield grove
172 Mead T. Seymour & Co Ltd, grocers
778 Gorton Central Liberal Club
778 Smellie, William caretaker (how unfortunate is that)
786 Bowker, Joseph confectioner
Here is Hall Street
788 Broadbent, Harold, plumber
Here is Church view
Brookfield Unitarian Church
822 Egerton, William, chapel keeper
824 Leah, Arthur , Thos, wheelwright.
826 Wagon & Horses PH
Clearly the library picture shows Seymours on the right and the Wagon & Horses way down to the left past Brookfield Church. The order of side streets is correct and the houses in the picture reflect the layout of the map. However there are 7 buildings in the ‘Seymour’ block and about 16 in the next block. The numbers jump from 172 to 778 and there are less entries than properties. I’ve scanned the rest of the directory and there don’t appear to be any obvious gaps between numbers or leaps in numbering
You asked a perfectly straightforward question to which the answer should have been yes or no and we are now no nearer forward, with a deepening mystery. Can you look at your census info again, in case we have to go back to the Ardwick end.
Thanks
Tony
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Hi Sue
whilst having a shufty thru my kELLY'S 1929 directory i came across the following, don't know if there of any use to you ?
ALFD. HAMER, PLUMMER, 14 CHURCH LANE , 183 -190 HYDE ROAD, AND 26 RADNOR STREET, GORTON TEL NO OPENSHAWE 147
also
RD. HAMER, CONFECTIONER, 297 HYDE ROAD
Jo
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Found this entry in the 1937 phone book
Regards
Ken
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;D wow you guys are great..I did look up my tree and this is what I have on the hamers Jo
starting with alfred finley hamer who had the plumbing shop he was born 1881 and married harriet walker...he had a brother called john born 1888 and a sister called sarah 1886...their parents were william alfred hamer born 14 aug 1853 and died 1915 and harriet smethurst born 1852...williams father was a john hamer born 1824 in manchester he married a sarah ann rayner in aug 1852 his father was william hamer born 1801 in manchester...sorry thats all I have on william hamers, I dont know who the last william was married to. william seems to be a family name so we could have a connection somewhere
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Hi Sue
will speak to my mum and see if she remembers anything about William
ttfn Jo
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I have put a copy of the street map for Hyde road from Ardwick end up to Belle Vue on another thread , here is the link for it
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,214934.msg1299074.html#msg1299074
might help you?
Migky ;)
Now has any one got a map with Church Lane Gorton on it please?
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Yep got Church Lane 1905, manic here today ::) will get back later.
Cheers
Tony
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Hi Migky
Will probably be weekend before i can scan Church Lane, in the meantime if you go to www.streetmap.co.uk and type in Cambert Lane you will see it on the other side of Hyde Road from Belle Vue station, heading NE it disappears and then reappears as Cam Ln to join Gorton Lane. That's the original line of Church Lane from Hyde Road to Gorton Lane. The Church in question would be St James. A few terraced houses at either end survive but there is a large estate cutting through the middle.
Best wishes
Tony
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Hi Sue & Migky,
One map, 2 answers
190 Hyde Road, Gorton is bottom right in green. In 1915 190 Ardwick end was Frank Bennett, tobacconist, so we might be able to see that on M/c library site.
Church Lane in yellow, now cambert lane. 29/41 survive left in red, 163/165 St James View 1888 survive top right in red. I met somebody who lived on Church Lane on Friday. Let me know details of your enquiry and i'll pass it on.
cheers
Tony
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:D Didnt you do well !
Thanks ....so the big question is....is it still there or is it as you feared turned into modern housing estate...sue
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Hi Sue,
Thanks for CD :)
No , i fear it's gone
Will keep trying,though
Can't stand a mystery ???
Tony H
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:) You are most welcome.....thanks...sue
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Hi Tony, thanks for the map. I take it Church Lane is now part of Gorton Lane?
Hope todays official opening of the Monastery goes well , shame about the weather.
harewoodhouse, you want/need and more pictures of Manchester/Salford for years gone by , please ask and i will look what i can dig up for you.
migky :)
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Hi Migky,
No, Church Street ran between Hyde Rd, running north east to join Gorton Lane just before Wellington St.
Ironically i'm glad its a terrible day. The radio reports were wrong about our re-opening, its actually the key ceremony. i.e contractor handing back keys to celebrate the end of the construction contract. We still have bits of fitting out to do so can't handle large numbers of public for another week/ten days. Have just managed to cope today because of the bad weather. Dread to think what a sunny day would have been like.
cheers
Tony
p.s. do you have old map of Middleton from centre, up Rochdale Rd to the Ship Inn at Slattocks?
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Sorry Tony, my map stops at Heaton Park end of Middleton road ???
It was church lane i was talking about not church street or did you mean church lane?
We hope to come back and see all the great work thats been done to the Monastery, when it is open again to the public.
Migky ;)
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Sorry Migky meant Church Lane :-[
Happy to show you round whenever you want, in fact might organise a mini meet for local Rootschatters ;D
tony
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Tony
Mini meet sounds great :)
Ken
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tonights Manchester Evening News .....
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1009/1009849_gorton_monastery_resurrected.html
enjoy !
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Hamers Glass shop was 188 Hyde Road and a photo from 1964 exists;
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=36754&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData%7CAdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=hengist+street&QueryOption=Anywhere&Submit=Search
It was on the corner of Hengist street....Ant