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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: leon59 on Monday 04 June 07 20:16 BST (UK)

Title: Military records information
Post by: leon59 on Monday 04 June 07 20:16 BST (UK)
I just recieved my Grandfathers' Scotland military records, on the page  "Short Service" 1903 asked Do you belong to the Army ect, his answer was yes the 1st V.B. H. L. I. what would that be.
Also on the page "Statement of Services" it has Posted 4/12/13, Discharged under article 1142(iii) R W 4/12/03, what does that mean.
Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: Kevwood on Monday 04 June 07 20:35 BST (UK)
VBHLI i would imagine to be

1st Volunteer Battalion of the Highland Light Infantry.


Kev.
Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: atom12 on Monday 04 June 07 22:50 BST (UK)
Hi

The Vounteer Battalion were Militia and were the forerunners of the Territorial Force (becoming the TF in 1908).

Does it say what  regiment he actually joined, or signed up to?

The ones I have seen have been more forthcoming with written reasons for any  Discharge due to misdemeanors. 

So I think it might mean he's been discharged from service with the V.B H.L.I. to serve with another regiment. 

Might be easier if you post a piece/s of the document.  ;D
Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: leon59 on Tuesday 05 June 07 01:14 BST (UK)
Thanks for the replies, making an attempt to attatch parts of the records, hope it works.


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Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: atom12 on Tuesday 05 June 07 14:27 BST (UK)
Hi Leon

Norman joined the Cameron Highlanders on the 1st December 1903.  He'd served with the Volunteer Battalion of the Highland Light Infantry (Militia, similar to today's Territorials, except they were for Home defence). He was posted to the Depot at Inverness joining them on the 4th December.

For some reason [under article 1142 (iii) RW] he was discharged from the army two weeks later on the 18 December 1903. 

I don't know what 'article 1142 means!!.  He might have been  unfit which would not show until he went into the strenuous training. There is no mention that he was of bad character.  :)

Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: leon59 on Tuesday 05 June 07 22:12 BST (UK)
Thanks adam12 for your help. I get more confused as I go. We have my grandfather's kilts and all and the glengarry(red & white dicing) badge is the Argyle and Southerland Highlanders. His Bagpipes even has the A&SH ribbon on them. Sporran is the swinging six. My Aunt said that he was in South Africa during the Boer War. Would it be possible that he was going to reinlist.
Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: atom12 on Wednesday 06 June 07 18:01 BST (UK)
Hi Leon

Looks like you will have to dig a bit deeper, as you can see for yourself, his attestation papers state that he was only with the Cameron Highlanders for less than 3 weeks.

At question 11 "Have you ever served in the Army, etc ...  if so state which and cause of discharge." Norman has answered "No".   ::)

Are you positive it is the same man?  If you look inside the kilt there may be a label with a name and number on it, also the back of the sporran may have his number, rank and name.

Are you sure he was a piper with the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders?  Because the pipers did not wear the 'swinging six'  :o

Anne

Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: leon59 on Wednesday 06 June 07 18:29 BST (UK)
Hi Anne, I'm so confused, I know I have the right man because on one of the papers it has his mother  listed as nearest relative. I'm not quite sure that he was a piper I just assumed it, I know don't assume anything.
Anne also on line 11 his answer also said "except as above".
I don't have his Kilt handy but did look at a picture I had taken and inside on the lining is stamped the numbers 1045 and under that is 10 and a 12 what ever that means. My husband doubts that I will never get to the bottom of this one but I am persistant.
Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: atom12 on Wednesday 06 June 07 23:34 BST (UK)

also on line 11 his answer also said "except as above".  
I don't have his Kilt handy but did look at a picture I had taken and inside on the lining is stamped the numbers 1045

Hi

The 'except as above' is referring to his V.B. HLI, Militia, where he served part-time.  He answered 'No' that he had not served as a regular, full-time soldier. So that does not make it likely that he'd served  previously in the Boer War [1899-1902]

Well this sure is a puzzler!  I don't know how you are going to solve it unless you keep delving amongst his stuff to see if anything else of relevance turns up.  What about photographs do you have any that might help! 

He perhaps served again in WW1.  What was his exact name, is it Norman Campbell, did he have/use any other name do you know!

By coincidence, there is a Peter Campbell with the number 1045  on the Medal cards, however, he served with the Black Watch.  The description you gave of his kit, ie, badge glengarry and sporran, suggests that he is an Argyll.   :(

Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: leon59 on Thursday 07 June 07 00:18 BST (UK)
Thanks adam 12, I just don't know what to think. My grandfather Norman Campbell was all he went by to my knowledge. He died when I was young but my Aunt has been telling me about him and the stories he told. My father passed before I got into genealogy so I don't have him to ask.
My grandfather Norman came to the states in 1909 and did sign up for the WW1 draft but wasn't called. As far as his Kilts and such my aunt has them and said that they are his, we don't have a picture of him in Scotland in them or any military pictures. He did play the Bagpipes very well and his pipes have the A&SH ribbon on them which led me feel that he may have been a piper. I have no idea who Peter Campbell could be. O the puzzle I have to solve.
Title: Re: Military records information
Post by: atom12 on Thursday 07 June 07 16:54 BST (UK)
 :) Sometimes we hit a brick wall for a time before getting another little lead to help us on our way again.

Perhaps the link below will come in handy for you in the not too distant future.  As you can see Ancestry now have a few John Campbells as searchable, so it hopefully won't take too long for them to get down to the N initial (for Norman).  :D

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mj/