RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: Aulus on Monday 04 June 07 19:29 BST (UK)
-
Bit of head scratching going on here, so I wonder if anyone else could spare a few moments ...
On the 1841 census (HO107; Piece 434; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Standon; County: Hertfordshire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 37; Page: 16; Line: 9; GSU roll: 288825.), I have the following living in Wades Mill, Standon, Herts:
- Samuel Mason, age 35 (b. 1806), Gardener
- Hannah Mason, age 45 (b. 1796)
- Noah Mason, age 13 (b. 1828)
- Eliza Mason, age 10 (b. 1831) - my great x3 grandmother
- Samuel Mason, age 6 (b. 1835
and then in 1851 (HO107; Piece: 1705; Folio: 538; Page: 20; GSU roll: 193613), living at High Cross, Standon, Herts, there are:
- Hannah Mason, head,
Unmarried Widow, age 59 (b. 1792), Wid Ag Lab pauper, born Standon, Herts - Samuel Mason, son, Unmarried, age 16 (b. 1835), Servant, born Standon, Herts
- Charlotte Mason, granddaughter, unmarried, age 1 (b. 1850), born Standon, Herts
Well, that seems fairly clear: Noah and Eliza have obvious moved out, and the elder Samuel, the husband, has obviously died.
There's a record on the IGI of a marriage between Samuel Mason and Hannah Siggens on 5 Aug 1827 (Batch: M072911)
But then along comes this on the 1861 to throw things into confusion:
RG9; Piece: 806; Folio: 97; Page: 14; GSU roll: 542704; Wadesmill, Standon, Herts
- Samuel Mason, head, married, age 58 (b. 1803), gardener (domestic servant), born Standon, Herts
- Mary Mason, wife, married, age 46 (b. 1815), formerly Housekeeper, born Braughen (presumably Braughing), Herts
- Charlotte Mason, granddaughter, age 11 (b. 1860), born High Cross, Herts
Well, that certainly looks like the Samuel Mason who's the husband on the 1841, but should be dead, according to his widow! Charlotte looks very, very like the Charlotte Mason on the 1851 census.
I can't find Samuel on the 1851 census, nor can I find Hannah on the 1861 census. I've also not found an obvious death record for either them.
I suppose it's possible Hannah might have lied about her marital status, particularly if Samuel had run off with a younger woman. Though if Braughen is Braughing, he hadn't run very far.
It's all making my brain hurt a bit, so another pair of eyes could be useful.
Do you think they're the same people?
Does anyone have easy access to any other records that may shed further light?
Thanks in advance for any ideas!
-
Hi
seems to me that your theory could be right....
Found these deaths on FreeBMD:
Hannah Mason JUN qrt 1856, registration district Ware, ref: 3a/109
Samuel Mason SEP qrt 1879, aged 77, reg.dist. Ware, ref: 3a/151
regards, Graham
-
As a pauper, would Hannah have received more parish help as a widow than if she were merely an abandoned wife? Maybe thatīs why she didnīt tell the truth about her husband being dead? Just a theory.
Aunt Sally
-
I suppose Samuel might have joined the armed forces, which could explain why I can't find him on the 1851 census, and he might have been slow returning to Hertfordshire, so Hannah assumed she was a widow. (Giving her the benefit of the doubt ...)
I've sent for those two death certificates (thanks for finding those, Graham!) to see if they can shed any more light, and I've also sent for two Samuel Mason marriage certificates - one in Ware in Sep qtr 1856 (which would fit with Hannah's death), though that's not to a Mary. The other is to a Mary (Mary Ann Farr), but that's not till Dec qtr 1862, so if it's the right one, what were they doing describing themselves as married on the 1861 census?
Relatives can be such a pain sometimes ... ;D
-
... I think the 1856 marriage is is not of Samuel senior but that of Samuel junior (b.1835ish) to Elizabeth Phillips. This marriage is on the IGI and they are on the 1881 census ref:
RG11/1425 12/50
Regards, Graham
-
I've got those death certificates now, and they are the right people.
Obviously - whether knowingly or unknowingly (and I doubt I'll ever know!) - Hannah was not telling the whole truth when she was described as a widow on the 1851 census. Though I suppose, it might be an enumerators mistake: I can imagine him having forgotten to ask the marital status question, or finding a blank on his schedules for her marital status and no husband present, puts in unmarried, then realises she has children, so puts in widow to protect her.
The 1879 death certificate is definitely the right Samuel Mason, as the informant is his daughter, my great-great-great grandmother, Eliza Collis.
What's very bizarre about the death Certificate is that the GRO have decided Standon's in Staffordshire. Registration District: Ware, Sub District: Standon in the County of Stafford. ??? ???
Even with boundary changes, that seems a bit odd.
-
Am new to all this, but think Eliza Mason is my great great grand mother. Married Daniel Collis 1855 in Shoreditch. Any information you could give would be very much appreciated.