RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: marhat on Sunday 03 June 07 17:47 BST (UK)
-
I have john Winter Married To a Emma (we think Smart) Parents of Ada Winter.
Could Somebody look and see if i am right and who were her parents.
John was born in Kent in1853 and Emma was born in 1854 in Pimlico London
-
Is this what you're looking for? or do you mean parents of Emma?
1891 RG12/77 Folio 16 Page 27
48 Pulford? Street, Belgrave, St George Hanover Square, London
John J Winter 38 Bricklayers Labourer Kent Crayford
Emma 36 London Pimlico
Walter 12 Westminster
Ada 11 Westminster
Regards
Catherine :)
-
it is Emmas parents that i am looking for.
thanks
-
Had a quick look on other censuses and there doesn't seem to be any Emma Smarts born Pimlico 1854 +/- 2 years. There are a few choices for Emma Smarts born Middlesex c1854, so best bet is probably to get the marriage certificate to make sure you get the right Emma -
eg; 1861 census
Emma b. c1852 St Georges East, dau of John and Emma, living in Bethnal Green
Emma b. c1852 St George Hanover Square, dau of George and Harriet, living in St George Hanover Square
Emma b. c1854 London Middlesex, dau of William and Maria, living in Westminster St Martin in the Fields
Emma L Smart b. c1855 St Luke Middlesex, dau of Thomas L and Louisa S, living in St Lukes Middlesex
Theres also one or two more possible Emmas in 1871 census..... :-\
-
i am not sure that smart is the right surname but he did marry a girl called emma from pimlico any use, their first child was born in 1844
-
i have checked again and in the 1881 census John Winter is married to Emma born in1854 in Pimslo that is all i know for sure
-
I think that you need to review your evidence.
you state :
John & emma's first child b 1844.
Next post Emma was born 1854???
and where did the surname Smart come from?
You say your only evidence is the 1881 census...
Pauline
-
my mistake again johns brother was born in 1844.
john was born in 1853 amd emma born in 1854
their children were---
Matilda b1875
Lizzie (elizabeth) b1877
Walter b1879
Ada b1880
in 1881 they live in 8 Horseferry road
St John Westminster
in 1891 they are in the Belgrave area
in 71 john is still at home with his parents William and Matilda
hope this helps
-
Do you have 1901 census? I see John is a widower.....could this be Emma's death registration?
Emma Winter December 1898 St George Hanover Square Vol 1a Page 295 Age 44 Year of birth c1854
-
no i dont have 1901 and yes that looks as if it is her death, if only i could find out who her parents were
-
You may have to send off for one of their children's birth certificates to get her maiden name if you cant find her marriage to John.
Back in a sec with 1901
Catherine :)
-
1901 RG13/88 Folio 84 Page 33
17 Cumberland Street, Belgrave, St George Hanover Square (sharing this address with 3 other families)John Winter wid 48 Painter (house)
Eliza 26
Walter 22 Iron Foundry Trimmer
..ilda 20 .....candesser Nar/Mar? Mak (cant read occupation, any other suggestions welcome!)
Last girls name transcribed as Hilda, but could be Tilda or similar (big scribble over it)
All birthplaces London Westmi..... :-\
Regards
Catherine :)
-
Marriages - Mar qtr 1874
John Winter and (possibly) Emma Smart.
Bethnal Green, 1c, 457.
Is this where your info came from ?
regards, sarah
-
Possible birth of Ada Winter -
June 1880 St George Hanover Square Vol 1a Page 471
-
Marriages - Mar qtr 1874
John Winter and (possibly) Emma Smart.
Bethnal Green, 1c, 457.
Is this where your info came from ?
regards, sarah
IF that is the case, then John Winter would appear to be on the wrong page, and this has been a wild goose chase....
Five names, two men two women. + 'spare' John Winter.
I've checked the transcription of the other names.
John Winter appears on P467 not P457 and there's no matching spouse named Emma.
-
To go back to the begining. the daughter born in 1880 is Ada she is my husbands grandmother and on her marrage cert it says that her father was John. She got married in1915 i went back to the 1881 census ahd the only Ada Winter born in 1880 with a father John was with a mother Emma. That is all i have to go on. On the cert it says that John was a painter
-
That John Winter (1881 census) is an Iron moulder not a painter.
Will you give us FULL details from that 1915 certificate and we can suggest how to proceed on that basis.
Pauline
-
There is another John Winter, house painter, on 1891 census (and 1901 with a different wife), although his daughter Ada is aged 9 in 1891, giving birth year of c1882. Heres 1891 and 1901, just so you can compare -
1891 RG12/468 Folio 83 Page 29
33 Nutbrook Street, Camberwell, London
John Winter 32 House Painter Hastings Sussex
Emma S 35 Hastings Sussex
Ada 9 Battersea
Lillian 8 Battersea
May 5 Battersea
Daisy 3 Peckham
Rose 8mo Peckham
1901 RG13/500 Folio 13 Page 13
33 Nutbrook Street, Camberwell, London
John Winter 44 House Painter Sussex St Leonards
Philadelphia 46 Sussex St Leonards
Daisy 13 Dulwich London
Rosie 10 Dulwich London
Agnes Bailey niece 25 Dyers Un.....ker Hastings Sussex
John Bailey nephew 21 Carpet Porter London Pimlico
Frederick Bailey nephew 16 Packer .... Bloomsbury
Edith Bailey niece 8 Dulwich
For 1881 see RG11/639 Folio 99 Page 47 (John and Emma S) (Is this the one you found?)
Your husbands grandmother, Ada, what is her married name/the name her death would be registered under? If you can find the registration of her death, won't it have her date of birth on it? From this you should be able to order her birth certificate, although it will be dearer than the normal £7 (used to be about £4 extra) unless the GRO reference can be found.
Regards
Catherine :)
-
how about this
Deaths
Emma Sophia Winter, bn 1855, died Dec qtr 1893, age of death 38
Camberwell, 1d, 609
Marriages
Jun qtr 1880
Emma Sophia Lamb and John Winter, Wandsworth, 1d, 683
I ROCK
regards, Sarah
-
Holy cow I'm nearly wetting my self now
Right
RG9/563, folio 71/page 21
Bexhill, Hollington, Sussex.
Eli Lamb, head, married, 37, carpenter, bn ????hurst, Kent.
Elizabeth, wife, married, 36, bn Rye, Sussex.
Charles, son, 15, carpenter, St Mary Magdalene, Sussex.
Jane E, daughter, 15, bn Ditto.
William, son, 12, bn Ditto.
Edward, son, 10, bn Ditto.
Philadelphia, daughter, 8, bn Hollington.
Emma S, daughter, 5, bn Ditto.
Annie, daughter, 3, bn Ditto.
Arthur, son, 6 months, bn Ditto.
I REALLY ROCK
regards, Sarah
-
ooops sorry that was 1861 by the way
-
Marriages
Dec qtr 1874, John Bailey and Philadelphia Lamb, Hastings, 2b, 75.
1881
RG11/103. Folio 35, Page 20.
33 Aylesford Street, Belgrave, St George hanover Square, London.
John Bailey, head, married, 29, police constable, bn ????, Surrey.
Philadelphia Bailey, wife, married, 28, bn St Leonards, Sussex.
Agnes A, daughter, 6, scholar, bn Col??? Vale, Sussex.
Emma, daughter, 4, bn Ditto.
Elizabeth M, daughter, 3, bn Peckham (?), Surrey.
John, son, 1, bn Pimlico, Middlesex.
ROCKING ALL OVER THE WORLD
regards, Sarah
-
the Marriage of Ada Winter and Alfred Hathaway Took place in Birmingham on 25/5/1915.
Alfred was 44 years old Ada was 35 years old He was a cycle fitter and she was a Domestic Servant they both lived at 3 Slone Street Birmingham.
Alfreds father was George Hathaway (deceased) and Ada`s father was John Winter i dont know if it says Printer or Painter that was in 1915
is this of any use
-
is this of any use
Well, it's getting there. You could still have given the witness names (who could be related to the bride/groom). Put an image of the certificate into the common room if you cannot read the father's occupation.
Other tracks to explore could be electoral rolls (although they may not exist for the war years), and maybe telephone directories...
Pauline
-
At the moment we dont know for sure whether the families above are the correct ones. I think the only way to be 100% sure is to get Ada's birth certificate.
Do you know roughly when she died? Hopefully her age on the certificate will narrow down the years to search, or even give her actual date of birth. We can search the indexes if you have a rough year of death to work from, Hathaway shouldn't be too common a name hopefully!
Catherine :)
-
i dont know where Ada was born.
the witness at Ada and Alfreds wedding were Alfreds Brother and his wife, William and Hope Elizabeth Hathaway.
As far as we know Ada died in 1934 and she was born in June 1880.
They were married in the Register office in Birmingham
when i started this search on the family tree i thought Hathaway was not common either but you must be kidding there were 100s of them
-
Are you looking at Jan qtr 1934 for ada? (age 66) Sutton Coldfield?
That doesn't match for any age at census/marriage so far...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mb/
Pauline
-
no it is 3rd Q Birmingham (1934) and as far as we know Alfred died 3rd Q 1929 Birmingham
-
There are two Ada Winter's born June quarter 1880 -
Bridlington Vol 9d Page 345
St George Hanover Square Vol 1a Page 471
Does her age on her marriage certificate confirm a birth year of c1880? (I see the age at her time of death does, if thats the correct one)
-
yes in the marriage cert of 1915 (may 25)
Ada is 35 that says she was born in 1880, but it doesn`t say where
Catone does the other Ada born in Bridlington have a father named John
-
Have checked 1881/91 censuses and can't find an Ada Winter born Bridlington, but there is one born Beverley on one census, North Cave on the other, living with parents James and Mary Ann/Annie, so if this is the correct Ada, it would seem to rule her out.
Regards
Catherine :)
-
yes that means that i must have the right Ada if we could find her mothers maiden name that would be great
-
sorryto confuse people i used my mothers computer for last reply
-
yes that means that i must have the right Ada if we could find her mothers maiden name that would be great
It isn't going to be possible from census in this case.
You will need to purchase birth certificate(s) of Ada Winter until you find the correct one.
Pauline