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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: janan on Thursday 31 May 07 11:10 BST (UK)
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Hi
I've been puzzling over Jane for some while- these are the facts
Jane CARVER was baptised in Wrestlingworth 17 Jun 1835 daughter of Young and Mercy - given their laisse faire attitude to baptising their children this is not necessarily a close indication of her age :D
Jane is not with Young and Mercy or anywhere else I can see in 41/51
In 1861 Jane Carver Serv unm 28 Cook born Wrestlingworth is in Bedford
1871 she is a Servant in Wrestlingworth age 38 living with brother Alfred and widowed mother Mercy
1874 Jane Carver Grocer of Wrestlingworth was guilty of having off-balance scales
1881 is a Grocer in Wrestlingworth age 48 with brother Alfred
Jane CARVER singlewoman age 73 died of Apoplexy Wrestlingworth July 25th 1890 an inquest was held
Did she just look 16 years older at death? Or was she actually older than the age she gave on censuses? If she was only 8 in 1841 where on earth was she - no sign of her anywhere?
Now in 1820, 2 years before Young and Mercy married there is a bastardy recognisance but no subsequent child - maybe Mercy miscarried or could Jane be this child?
In 1851 there is a 24 year old Rosa Carver bound server to a Grocer in Houghton Regis - Rosa gives a birthplace as Luton, I have not found her on any other census, could she be Jane?
And in 1841 in Newport Pagnell there is a 20 year old Jane BIRD (Mercy's maidenname) servant to a Grocer - again I can't find her on other censuses. Could she be my Jane?
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Jan ;)
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This is a real mystery. I have been trying to do some detective work, but have got no where! But I will run through what I have done, to avoid duplication!
The census entries are consistant - age 28,38,48 and living with family members, so I think it is likely those three 'jane Carvers' are all the same person, and that they are the same one as was born to Young and Mercy - the census ages would make her born about 1833, so could easily be about 2 @ christeneing.
so that only leaves the following 'rogue' facts:
where is she in 1841/51?
Is the 1890 death her.
I pottered around on BMD indexes etc, and what struck me was just how many Carvers there were in this area. So - it is quite possible there were several Jane Carvers around of similar age.
I found Young Carver's death in A/M/J 1867 (bn 1795)
i found Mercy Carver's death in j/F/M 1873 (bn 1801)
HAve you got their'death certs? Be interesting to see who registered them, especially Mercy's - could well be daughter, which would confirm (or not) that she was still single at that date.
there is a marriage of a Jane Carver in 1860 - ('your' Jane would be 27) to either Isaac Darts or Joseph Gyeu. Unlikely to be 'yours' as you have her as still single and with Mum in 1871. But goes to show there is another one around.
Tried to see which chap she married by looking on 1881 census. No Jane Gyeu,
One Jane Darts, but she was yuonger born 1856ish, husband John, and going back to marriages it looks like she was jane Mussey -but still born Wrestlingworth.
So no nearer finding who the Jane Carver married.
So - basically I am of NO help!
Did Jane have any siblings? Following tham may give a clue.
Grocers usually appear in Directories - so you may get some more info no where she was when from them.
she seemed to rise from a servant to a grocer after her parents died - were they grocers and she took over the business from them? I would look for Wills for Young and Mercy (what brilliant names!) - they could well clarify a bit more about Jane.
sorry about ramblings - just typing as my thoughts go round in my head!
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Hi Liz
Thank you for your thoughts, much appreciated :D
Young (and his brothers George and William) was a wheelwright , his sons James (my gg grandfather) and Alfred carried on the business after his death. The only directory mention of grocers is 1876 when James is said to be shopkeeper as well as wheelwright, although it appears Jane actually ran the shop. It would seem possible Mercy ran the grocers before this date - the previous directory entry I have is 1862, so quite a gap- but she is listed as Pauper in 1871 when living with Jane and Alfred.
I do have Young's death certificate but not Mercy's on which Jane may well have been informant - however since she is definitely still single and living with brother Alfred in 81 sadly I don't think that would add anything much.
The Jane Carver who married Joseph Gyeu is daughter of Young's brother William she was born in Arrington, Cambs c 1836 - have her accounted for on censuses, baptism etc.
Young did have a sister Jane born c1799 but I cannot see her as Carver on any census, although haven't traced a marriage or death for her either, but she would have been 91 by 1890 - possible to be recorded as 73 but if she did remain single she is missing 1841-81.
So I think the 1890 death is most likely to be Jane baptised 1835, if Alfred had been the informant that would have added weight, sadly it was the Coroner - Maybe a local paper report on her death I suppose :-\ ???
A will for Young/Mercy (yes delightful names :D) would be worth pursuing.
Regards
Jan ;)
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Just an update - Young's sister Jane born c 1799 can be ruled out as the Jane Carver who died in 1890 as she married a William Betts in Woodford Northants on 25 Feb 1827.
Jan ;)
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I found a web-page a while back about Jane Carver - the page seems to have gone but I copied it:
Name Jane CARVER
Birth 1789, Wrestlingworth, Beds
Death 1879 Age: 90
Burial 22 Feb 1879, Woodford, Northants
Spouses
1 William BETTS
Birth 1802
Death 1864 Age: 62
Burial 11 Jan 1864, Woodford, Northants
Occupation Labourer
Father James BETTS (1760-1806)
Mother Mary WARNER
Marriage 25 Feb 1827, Woodford, Northants
Children Thomas (1827-)
Josiah (1827-)
Selina Elizabeth (1829-)
Harriett (1832-)
Sarah Anne (1836-)
Hannah (1839-)
Edmund (1841-1878)
Mary (1843-?1844)
Notes for Jane CARVER
1851 Census
Woodford Lodge, Woodford. Jane aged 52 with Edmund 9.
Where is William and other children.
Thomas married 1849. ? Mary died 1844. Where are Hannah, aged 12 and Sarah 15 (?away as servants)
1861 Census ? Pages torn on Woodford census
1871 Census Church St, Woodford. Widowed aged 77, with son Edmund 30, unmarried, shoemaker
Last Modified 27 Aug 1956
You know I stared at that name "Gyeu" for ages on the entry and could not work out what it was. My guess was "Syew" - do we know where it comes from?
Neil.
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Hi Neil
Yes I found that web-page and through it was able to establish what happened to Young's sister Jane.
Gyeu is a very odd name - no idea where it comes from, there must be alternative spellings as put it in Family Search IGI and nothing pops up!
Jan ;)
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I know I am a "little late", but I have found the following spellings for Gyew.....Gue, used on the 1861 census.....Guye used in the death register for Joseph Guye, Gyue on the 1871 census and Gyew used on the marriage register for Joseph Gyew and Jane Carver in 1847
Marg
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Hi Marg
Thanks for your input. Very strange you should suddenly reply - I was relooking at this thread yesterday :D I failed to come up with anymore on my mysterious Jane, but at least the other two are firmly accounted for.
Jan ;)
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An update on Jane Carver who died 1890 age 73, I have just found a newspaper report of her inquest which mentions her brother Alfred so she is definitely the Jane baptised 1835.
Jan
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Hi Janan,
Currently going alphabetically through the 1921 census for my lot and have reached, no speedy Gonzales me, B for Bowler (!)
Having very little success in tracking down (and not for the first time!) Isabella M (b 1883, Caterham) but I did notice a JOHN BOWLER, b Elstow, aged 60y 10m on the 1921c and am wondering if he is actually Isabella's father John William, also b Elstow around 1858. The 1921 location is Portobello Road, Kensington and Theresa his stated wife is from the West Indies which is provocative. I currently have no death for JOHN WILLIAM BOWLER.
Hope this makes sense.
Any steers on Isabella and John William gratefully received.
Thanks,
Neil (Easby)
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Hi Neil
Sorry I've no ideas about your Bowlers - how do they connect with the Carvers?
Jan
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Back to Jane Carver. She was baptised in 1835, but census age implies she may have been born about 1833, so she would be 8 in 1841. Maybe staying with relatives on census night. Have you checked grandparents or aunts and uncles families?
It looks like Mercy's maiden name was Bird, but can't find her baptism, so no idea of her parent's names
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Bedfordshire Mercury 2 August 1890. Re: Inquest into the death of Jane Carver aged 73. Died 25 July 1890
Paraphrasing. Single woman lived with brother Alfred Carver- Wheelwright.
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Thank you for your interest Lizzie and amondg
I've looked everywhere for Jane as a possible 8 year old in 1841 and also as a 20 year old or so going on her death date, similar searches for her in 1851. I haven't found a likely Jane 8/18 anywhere in 41/51. The only possibilities for an older Jane were those I mentioned in my original post ie in 1841 Jane Bird age 20 servant to a Grocer in Newport Pagnell and in 1851 Rosa Carver 24 in Luton bound server to a Grocer.
Yes the newspaper entry does nicely confirm the 73 yr old Jane dying in 1890 as the correct person.
Re her mother Mercy, she was baptised in Wrestlingworth 12 April 1801 parents John and Susan Bird mistranscibed as Mary on the IGI.
Thanks again
Jan
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Re her mother Mercy, she was baptised in Wrestlingworth 12 April 1801 parents John and Susan Bird mistranscibed as Mary on the IGI.
I did wonder about that one, as the same couple had an earlier Mary and I couldn't see a death for her as a child.
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It might be that she was with her parents in 1841, but got missed off the census somehow. Either by her father on the householder's form, or (possibly more likely) by the enumerator when he transcribed the householder's form into his book. If Young was illiterate and had to get a third party to fill in the form, then there's another source of error.
In 1851 she is possibly a servant somewhere like in 1861. If so, her employer would have filled in the householder's form and could easily get details wrong.
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The Rosa Carver who is in Houghton Regi near Luton is a lodger with the grocer's family and her occupation is a bonnet sewer. Her birthplace is given as Luton, which is some way from Wrestlingworth, which is almost Cambridgeshire.
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Rosa Carver does seem to be a mystery, no baptism record (but she may not have been baptised or record not on line). Can't find her in any other census and can't find a likely marriage or death.
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Thanks again Lizzie.
I wasn't worried about Rosa's birthplace being Luton as she is dittoed from person above, however I think you could well be right about bonnet sewer rather than bound server!