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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Jeanne K. on Thursday 31 May 07 05:40 BST (UK)
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My husband's great-grandfather was born in Old Deer, Aberdeenshire in 1858. His parents were quite poor; they were unlanded and his father was a ploughman. This great-grandfather of my husbands was named James Ferguson Blaikie King. This seems like an awfully grand name for the 6th child in a family of 8 children born to poor parents. On the birth record, his name is shown as James King. Would his name be shown in official records as James King, when his whole name was James Ferguson Blaikie King? Ferguson and Blaikie are not family names, as I have been able to determine. Was this common practice in the mid-1800's in Scotland, to have such involved names? Since he came to America, there have been two of his descendants named James Ferguson Blaikie King(2nd and 3rd). Family story has it that the Blaikie was named after a well known professor at University of Edinburgh. Seems unlikely in a poor family with minimal education. Any ideas on the name or naming conventions?
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Hi, I don't really know too much but quite a few people in my tree have middle names that appear during their life. My great granny has a middle name on her marriage certificate that is not there on her birth cretificate, nor is it a family name, no idea where it came from! quite a few have middle names on their death cretificates that they don't have elsewhere during their life.
Hope this is some help, caroline
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Hi Jeannie,
Presumably you have went further back and Ferguson and Blaikie weren't maiden names or middle names of Grandparents. If so perhaps they were close friends who witnessed the christenings or marriage of his parents?
Interesting topic as I also have a few middle names of ancestors I can't, as yet, find a reason for.
Of course perhaps they were "celebs" of their day! My wife stopped me having my sons middle names also being Ferguson after the great Sir Alex, ex manager of Aberdeen!
Grothenwell
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I too have at least 2 people who acquired extra forenames during their lifetimes, one in London and one born in Germany who seems to have acquired the extra name in London. I didn't realize it was a trend!
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Neither Blaikie or Ferguson are family names, as far back as I can go. Maybe the family friend or witness at his christening is a possibility. Part of what I was wondering, if it says just "James King" on the birth record does that mean that was his full name at birth? Or would the birth record show as "James Ferguson Blaikie King", if that was the name given at birth? Or would the "Ferguson Blaikie" part of the name most likely be added later on, such as at a christening? Just wondering. Thanks for your replies.
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My own opinion is that with the way they named children, i.e. 1st son after father's father etc. that there finished up too many running around with the same name, so some decided to add an extra name/s to distinguish themselves from others of the same name.
Bev
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My own opinion is that with the way they named children, i.e. 1st son after father's father etc. that there finished up too many running around with the same name, so some decided to add an extra name/s to distinguish themselves from others of the same name.
Bev
This could be true. They also would often call the second and subsequent same-name people by their middle names or by nicknames. Catherine becomes Kate, Cathy, Kit etc for various individuals, for example, in order to distinguish them.
Ferguson could easily become "Fergie", and often was.
I wouldn't assume that because you haven't found it, that these were not family names. I have some that have showed up a few generations down the road.
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it does help us sometimes when they give themselves a middle name, especially if they have a common name, it helps to identify them. My great granny had the middle name 'weir' on her marriage certificate and i can't for the life of me find it anywhere else!
i don't know much about christenings but i think that the name on the birth cetificate is the name they were given at birth, i don't know where you would find the records for the baptism. we have a baptism certificate for my granpa and it is the same name as on his birth certificate.
caroline
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This is English, not Scottish, but I have one fellow whose middle name is Adams. The only surname Adams I can find is the boarder who was living with them, who seems to have been a family friend as he also shows up as a witness at a wedding, but I have found no genealogical connection to him. Perhaps people felt sorry for those who had no children of their own, and named their children after them??, or perhaps it was a way to honour your close friends?
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Re the naming puzzle. There was a distinct pattern to how children were named in 16th , 17th, 18th and 19th centuries in Scotland - and probably long before that. This makes for easier tracing a family's history - EXCEPT - always that word! - when there was death of a family relative or close friend - then their name was given to the next child born - interrupting the pattern. If anyone does not know this pattern I will willingly email this to you.
Also it was not unknown for someone to die and be given a totally different name at say age 2 or 3. Over the last 40 years I have seen every variation known.
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Re the naming puzzle. There was a distinct pattern to how children were named in 16th , 17th, 18th and 19th centuries in Scotland - and probably long before that. This makes for easier tracing a family's history - EXCEPT - always that word! - when there was death of a family relative or close friend - then their name was given to the next child born - interrupting the pattern. If anyone does not know this pattern I will willingly email this to you.
Also it was not unknown for someone to die and be given a totally different name at say age 2 or 3. Over the last 40 years I have seen every variation known.
Hi bsc. I'd love to have the doc outliningnaming conventions. RootsChat requires someone post 3 times in order to do personal messaging (little green scroll under your profile on the left), so thought I'd post the request here so that you can post a few more times & then contact me so I can provide my e-mail.
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Middle names became more popular towards the end of the 19th century. It was not unusual to step outwith the traditional Sc naming pattern, middle names were often the name of the laird or an employer, keeping in with the boss. Maybe this is a NE Scotland custom - my father named my brother and me after grandparents, but 3rd child has middle name of his rich great aunt (it worked!) and 4th child includes forename of a colleague who was always good to his family.
I understand that at the first baptism by a new minister, the minister's names were added to the child's.
BTW, a mother would often stick in the surname of the father as a middle name if child illegitimate.
I have a great grandfather George Thom b 1840, cannot find him in OPRs, but illegitimate and been given surname of birth father (as his mother did for the other 3 illegitimate children she had, all by different men). Married 1867, 2nd son born 1869 was George Scott Troup Thom, informant was father plain GT. Most later births plain GT except one in 1876 when he is GSTT. 1871 census he is GT and son is George S T Thom Junior; this son dies 1880 and henceforth now consistently uses middle names.
Looks like he added middle names in later life when his job situation improved. (His mother was Scott, but see no familial connection to Troup.) Or used it more to in rememberance of the son who died. Or like first post, it is a plain name - there might be another person similarly named, possible in same area or type of job, and they needed to differentiate.
Have yet to look up Kirk Session records for my naughty GG grandmother!
Hope this helps
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Apologies to those waiting for this message - newly back home.
Scotland's naming pattern:
1st son for father's father
1st daughter for mother's mother
2nd son for mother's father
2nd daughter for father's mother
3rd son for father's eldest brother
3rd daughter for mother's eldest sister
4th son for mothers oldest brother
4th daughter for fathers oldest brother-
And it continues like that - if a death occurs then that person's name will appear next - so the pattern is interrupted which is a nuisance while researching - and occasionally there are two siblings with the same name!!
As the naming goes on it gets less accurate with midwives names and ministers names used - but most often as middle names.
Hope this is helpful.
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Correction to my recent posting re Naming patterns;
4th daughter for father's oldest sister -
and so on.
In my father's family the pattern was reversed - so his mother's dead father was first named - but this is unusual.
Trust this is helpful.
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Thank you bsc. :)
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Hi
Just to say that there are quite a few threads on naming conventions:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,3652.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,80817.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,99754.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,160920.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,217592.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,218984.0.html
From the Lexicon of Rootschat Topics:
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/reflib-lexicon.php?letter=N&lang=EN&input_form=
gnu
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Thanks -
A quick browse at the links was interesting - will read more closely tonight.. this is my favourite reading!
The naming pattern I submitted is, or I should say was, a very closely adhered to pattern in the Highlands of Scotland where I grew up. I have researched many of the families in my small town and they mostly followed it to the letter.
My husband came from a city (Glasgow) in south of Scotland and their family pattern is identical - and his family goes back into the early 1700's following the same pattern - which I found interesting.
One comment I read briefly on a link was the insertion of Mother/ Father name as 3rd daughter/son name on the list - and I have come across this occasionally -
I am interested to know if Irish families followed any pattern - I am researching my ggg grandparents but having great difficulty. Would love to hear from someone on this.
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Hi :)
I think the Irish conventions were the same as the Scottish ones:
http://www.ballyd.com/results/namingpatterns.htm
I'm sure there will be a thread/threads on them on the Irish boards
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,50.0.html
gnu
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If middle names appear which don't seem to be names of close relatives, a good thing to do is look at the nearest census for the area and check for neighbours, employers etc. who might fit. The minister was a frequent source as was the schoolmaster (who was usually the session clerk too).
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3rd son for father's eldest brother
3rd daughter for mother's eldest sister
I have always understood it to be
3rd son after father
3rd daughter after mother
then 4th and subsequent children after more distant relatives, and I have often seen exactly this being used.
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3rd son after father
3rd daughter after mother
Me too, with the fourth born son named after the father's eldest brother.
Pels.
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Hello, Jeanne! I am Rick Black. I am related to James King. My grandmother’s father is James Ferguson Blaikie King. Her name is Ester King. I am assuming your husband’s grandfather or grandmother is one of James’s children. Please reach out to me because I would love to learn about my family’s ancestry!
- Rick Black