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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: marhat on Sunday 27 May 07 00:33 BST (UK)
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i have a Ada Winter born on Westminster (st George Hanover Sq) i have her with her family in 1881 where she is a year old, i also have her in 1891 at home but in 1901 i cant find her or her mother.
i wonder if anybody would have more luck than me, by the way her parents names were john and Emma Winter
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Hello, Marhat,
You might like to consider this 1901 entry for your John Winter & family.
RG13/88 folio 84 page 38
17, Cumberland St., St George Han Sq.
John Winter head Wid age 48 Painter (House) b Westminster
Eliza dau age 26 b Westminster
Walter son age 22 Iron Foundry Trimmer b ditto
Hilda ? (Ada) dau age 20 Incandescent..?..maker b ditto
The dau Hilda entry is badly crossed out, .da.. is easily identifiable. I see from the 1881 census that there are daus Matilda age 6 & Lizzie age 4. A Matilda is not with them 1901 & the entry for Ada had been shown as Hilda, could a mistake have been made in the giving of the name instead of Ada with the result is was crossed thro. ???
Meliora
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I agree with Meliora.
It looks like the clerk corrected the original entry for 'Hilda' - presumably when check the details against the census schedule.
The occupation is "incandescent man. mak." which would have been short for "incandescent mantle maker".
Dave
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going back to ada`s father in 1871 i have him in St John The Evangelist Civil parish, and it looks as if John and his parents and siblings are living in a seckt or something, as the space for parents or spouse it gives for people in the building as John,there are almost 100 people in the building --- could anybody find what this place was and why so many people put John as Father and no Mothers name
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Sorry, but this is too vague to be able to follow up.
Can you give details of where you found John Winter in 1871, please. ? Was this in the 1871 census ? What were the names of his father & siblings ?
Meliora
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John is on page 5 of the 1871 census for John Winters, it says that he was born in Bexley Kent.
on the Bottom of the page it has the code==
Folio 34 Page 19 GSU Roll 838769
he is with his family
Father William E b1821
mother Matilda Winter b1824
children John b1853
James b1858
Laura J b1860
Arthur b1862
I know that William and Matilda are the parents as i john and James in the 1861 census.
But the funny thing is they all say for spouse or parents ---
John and no mothers name apart from the few names that are down as housemaids and they have that space empty
i hope you can help me
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Hell, Marhat,
I must admit to being a little confused about your reference to spouse & parents, a few names shown as housemaids & a lot of open space. I don't know exactly what you were looking at. Can you say where this info was ?
You omitted an important part of the 1871 census for the Winter family. There should be a Piece no preceeding the folio & page no. Without this Piece no, you cannot find the folio or page no. The census years are always shown as follows, 1841 & '51 HO107, 1861 as RG9/, 1871 as RG10/, 1881 as RG11/ 1891 as RG12/ & the 1901 as RG13/. These nos are always followed by the Piece no. On finding the relevent Piece no in the census , then look for the folio & page no, remembering that there are 2 page nos to one folio no.
However, nil desperandum, I did find the relevent Piece no for the folio 34. I think the list of names you refer to are the 46 people shown on the 2 pages 19 & 20 of folio 34 living at 117 Regent St. & nos 26 to 29 Causton St. Details of the Winter family are >>
1871 census
RG10/122 folio 34 page 19
26 Causton St, St John the Evangelist, Westminster
William E. Winter head age 50 Joiner b Westminster
Matilda wife age 47 b Kent Sutton
John son age 18 Moulder b Kent Bexley
James son age 11 worker in print office b Westminster
Louisa dau age 11 b dito
Arthur saonn age 9 b ditto
Laura dau age 7 b ditto
1861 census
RG9/50 folio 118 page 37,
26, Causton St., St John the Evangelist, Westminster
William E. Winter head age 39 Carpenter/Joiner b Middsx Oxford St
Matilda wife age 37 b Kent Sutton at Hove
William G, son age 17 tripe trimmer b Kent Crayford
George J son age 14 ditto b ditto
Matilda dau age 12 b ditto
John J. son age 8 b ditto
James G son age 3 b Westminster
Louisa dau age 1 b ditto
I hope this has cleared up any confusion.
Meliora
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the code that i missed is RG10 Piece 122. when you open this page there are about 100 names then when you click on "view others on page" there are 21 names 17 out of the 21 says parent or spouse John.
i hope you can help
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I can see the page you mean and the long list of name but when you click on view others they come up in their individual familys as Meloria has posted. I can see nothing about father or spouses.
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There is an interesting item in the 1871 census for the William E. Winter family.
The son Arthur aged 9 is shown as paralyzed in the end column that list any disabilities.
I have also just realised why William E. Winter is shown as Housemaid in the View Record list on Ancestry. The Hd. in the relation ship column, instead of bring transcribed as Head it is shown as Housemaid. I have seen & heard some funny ones in my time but that takes the biscuit.
This mis-transcription can also apply where the name John appears as father or spouse for all the enrtries in the View Others on Page list, if you had clicked on View Original Image you would have seen the correct familes grouped together.
Meliora
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He is not the only one like that either, I checked a couple of others a J. Dean and W. Farmer down as Housemaids when in fact they are Labourer and Lighterman :o
Good old mistrancription again ;D ;D
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so you both reckon that it was just a mistake in the transcriptions, by tne way i have Arthur S (Sidney) married with 2 sons in 1901. He is married to a Girl called Bertha Marsh Have I got it wight?
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Hi Meliora.
You said that it says that Arthur was down as paralyzed, in the list i have from Ancestery it says in the space for where born "Westr Paralyse, Middlesex, England". The other 4 children in the family says "Westr,Middlesex, England, could that be the Paralyzed that you found.
mary
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You cannot always take transcriptions for granted, that they are correct, you should always check the original entries. Mistakes can occur in those as well, many census, particularly the earlier ones, relied on what the enumerator was told & what he thought he heard, then mistakes took place when they were copied from his entry books to the records. We have to take a broad view of what we see in transcriptions & work out what best fits what we are looking for.
I cannot tell you just from looking at the 1901 census whether the entry for Arthur Sidney Winter is the son of William & Martha. To find out whether he is or not you would have to find & buy the marriage cert, this will tell you his father's name.
This should help
Marriage
William Sidney Winter = Bertha Marsh
Dec ¼ 1892 Lambeth 1d 692
1901 census info
On the same page & living in the same street as Arthur Sidney Winter is a James G Winter born 1858 Westminster
RG13/427 folio 161 page 17
12, Vicary St. Lambeth, Brixton
James G. Winter head age 43 Housedecorator b Westminster
Hannah wife age39 b Marylebone
Richard J. son age 15 Printer's Labourer b ditto
Ethel M. dau age 12 b St Pancras
James G. son age 5 b Grays, Essex
Laura dau age3 b Hammersmith London
William E son age b dittp
16, Vicary St, Lambeth , Brixton
Arthur Sidney Winter head age 39 ironmonger b London
Bertha wife age 29 b Whitstable
Eric M. son age 7 b London
Reginald son age 5 b ditto
Kate Marsh, sister in law age 14 b London
In your request posts, if you have found anything in any of the census, please post the Distict, Piece no, folio & page no, this eliminates anyone wishing to help having to spend time searching for it.
Meliora
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Re. the entry for Arthur being paralyzed.
You are again relying on a transcription that can be wrong.
You must look at the original census image.
RG10/122 folio 34 page 19
The last column on the right hand side is headed
whether
1) deaf & dumb
2) blind
3) Imbecile or idiot
4) Lunatic.
The enumerator always also entered if there was any disability, in Arthur's case he has entered Paralyzed. Once I found an entry in my own research that said a young man had only one leg, the previous census had not mentioned this. This led me to trace the fact that he had had the leg removed in hospital.
Meliora
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