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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: rhoosesue on Wednesday 23 May 07 16:31 BST (UK)
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I have been trying to trace the origins of Richard PICKSTOCK for a friend in South Africa. Richard PICKSTOCK was one of the 1820 settlers to the Cape of Good Hope and married Frances GRAVETT in London in January 1820 just before the ship sailed. He ostensibly had his nine year old daughter Charlotte with him, but family sources say she was in fact his granddaughter. Richard definitely had two daughters by a first marriage as he applied for them to come out and join him at the Cape in 1826. One daughter was Mary, aged 29 in 1826, who was married to a Thomas DOBSON and had a son John born ca 1825. The other daughter was Ann, aged 31 in 1826, with her husband Thomas DOWLAN and children Mary and Amelia. The contact address given for his daughters on the 1826 application was Warwick Square, Manchester. If anyone has any information re Richard PICKSTOCK's first family I should be gald to hear from them and pass the information on to my friend.
Sue
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Hi
I expect that as several years has passed since you posted this message you may have found out about Richard Pickstock's family or not have the same email address.
I think I know the family connection here in the UK. i found his marriage by chance. I am descended from his sister Sarah. I was very interested in the articles re the first settlers in South Africa and delighted to know a relative of mine was a pioneer. I have not yet been able to trace the child wyo was with him who later married the nephew of Richard's wife Frances. I would be very happy to share information with you and your friends.
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Could this be the other daughter ?
Baptism: 10 Aug 1795 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Margaret Pickstock - Daughter of Richd. Pickstock & Margaret
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Margaret was a daughter of Richard Pickstock but there is a later burial (around 1800 from memory) in the non comformist registers. Richard was married 4 times. In one article I read from South Africa it stated that the 'daughter' of Richard was really the daughter of his brother who had died fighting with Nelson! A mystery to be solved.
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Thanks for getting in touch, barrow girl. I have sent you a private message. Sadly the friend for whom the original enquiry was made has since passed away, but having transcribed all the 1820 settler correspondence (http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/) I am always pleased to receive information on any of the settlers prior to emigration.
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... Richard was married 4 times. ....
Only four? :)
I have not yet disentangled the history of Richard Pickstock but, looking at the signatures on the relevant marriages, I had come to the tentative conclusion that he was indeed the tailor from Manchester, b abt 1770, son of Isaac Pickstock (tailor of Northwich) and Ann / Nancy nee Carter.
I have the following marriages for Richard:
- Margaret / Peggy Woodward, 24 Mar 1788, Collegiate Church, Manchester;
- Janet Bayley (widow), 1 Jan 1804, Collegiate Church, Manchester;
- Sarah Dobson (widow), 27 Sept 1806, Collegiate Church, Manchester;
- Hannah Heeley, 14 Dec'r 1808, St. Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancs (based on signature, etc.);
- Frances Gravett
The first 3 wives can all be found in burial registers - I have no clue on Hannah's death, other than there being an otherwise unmatched (by me) burial of a Hannah Pickstock at the Collegiate Church, Manchester, on 17 April 1825. The match is not too good on age as Hannah Heeley appears to have been b abt 1788 and the burial was b abt 1782. Anyone able to match the burial better?
My unsupported belief is that the Thomas Dobson who was his son-in-law was actually his step-son, son of the former Sarah Dobson. The use of the term "son-in-law" for step-son is known at this time - one famous Nelson letter uses the term like that. However, there are just too many Dobsons for me to be certain of it.
The daughter, Ann, who m Thomas "Dowlam", may be Nancy Pickstock, bap to Richard and Margaret back at St. Helen in Witton, Northwich, 25 April 1790. My further guess is that she married Thomas Downing, coachmaker of Manchester, at the Collegiate Church on 27 Sept 1814. I'd be grateful if anyone can comment on whether Thomas "Dowlam" may indeed be Thomas Downing as I can't see whether Thomas did go out to SA. (It is possible of course that the Collegiate Church's records are wrong!)
The only children I have traced for Richard are all to Richard and Margaret:
- Nancy bap 25 Apr 1790, St Helen, Witton;
- Margaret b abt 1793/94, bur 2 June 1794, St. Helen, Witton;
- Margaret bap 10 Aug 1795, Collegiate Church, Manchester, bur 30 March 1797, St. Helen, Witton;
- Isaiah, bap 30 April 1797, Collegiate Church, Manchester, d bef Oct 1802?
- Josiah(?), b 18 March 1800, bur 20 Oct 1802, Wesleyan Chapel, Gt Bridgewater St., Manchester
- Isaiah or Isaac, b abt Oct 1802, bur 21 Nov 1802, Wesleyan Chapel, Gt Bridgewater St., Manchester - there are two versions of this register with 2 names!
The burials back in Witton are clearly this couple as the St. Helen registers are in an extended format at this time.
I suspect there is at least one other child, a Richard Pickstock, as someone of that name, b abt 1792 in Manchester and a tailor, is recruited into the Army in the Manchester area before deserting pretty quickly. There is no real reason to connect him to this family other than the extreme rarity of the name. It's also not clear where he could fit into the family, unless btw Nancy and the first Margaret.
I have only done a quick check but I think that Richard the elder is in the Manchester Rate Books until the 1807 edition, which suggests he moves out of Manchester, marries Hannah, moves down to London.... Weird. (I confess that I have checked the online newspapers for any unexplained Pickstock deaths!)
Grateful for any further comments....
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Very interesting. I have copies of the original correspondence (at Kew) written by William Shepherd in 1826, who applied to take out family members to existing 1820 settlers. This has been transcribed at
http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/post-1820-letters/s-writers-surnamed-s/1443-2011-01-05-17-07-31
It states that Richard PICKSTOCK applied for his two daughters and their families to join him.
Thos DOWLAN (29) with wife Ann (31) and children Mary (10) and Amelia (3)
Thos DOBSON (27) with wife Mary (29) and son John (1)
It may be that Shepherd got the surnames slightly wrong.
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Dowlan looks good as a name. Ancestry has this burial in 1830:
Piece Title: Piece 1612: Salford, Christchurch, King Street (Bible Christian), 1800-1837
(1830) Dec'r 1
Emelia Daughter of Thomas & Ann Dowlan aged 6 years who died Nov'r 28 of Decline at No. 47 Lever Street Manchester.
That's 4y after the 1826 letter when Amelia Dowlan, dau Thomas & Ann, was aged 3. Seems a good fit to me, to be the same child. Can't find a baptism for her. I can find a burial of an earlier Amelia in the same piece:
(1821) March 18 Emilia Daughter of Thomas & Ann Dowlan aged 13 months who died March 16 of watery head at No. 25 Warwick Street Manchester
And that confirms that this is the same family as referred to in "Kew, CO48/69, 82" on the URL above as the Warwick St address is identical.
There are other burials for what looks like this same family - sometimes indexed as Dowland. Still can't see any baptisms in Ancestry or FindMyPast-Cheshire-PRs.
I still can't see any better marriage than that Thomas Downing, coachmaker of Manchester, to Ann Pickstock of Manchester at the Collegiate Church on 27 Sept 1814.
There is a distinct but nothing like certain possibility that I have found them in the 1841 census at Class: HO107; Piece: 573; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Manchester; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 19; Page: 33;
(to use Ancestry's citation).
Thomas Dowlan is 47 and a painter, Ann is 51 (I think) and a dressmaker. There are possible children with them.
Ann Dowlan being 51 would fit with Nancy Pickstock bap 1790. And I can see a coachmaker in 1814 being a painter (e.g. of coaches) in 1841. But there are too many similar couples for me to be happy.
Maybe the Dowlans never went out to SA??
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Adrian
Having looked in detail now at all the records you posted, I tend to agree with you that Thomas and Ann DOWLAN never went to the Cape, and that perhaps Thomas DOBSON was Richard's stepson.
I have made one other discovery by going through records on FindMyPast. It was always said within the family thatCharlotte PICKSTOCK, the 'child' of Richard and Frances who sailed with them in 1820, was not Richard's daughter, and was born in Madeira.
Royal Military Asylum (Chelsea) admissions (British Army Schoolchildren 1803-1932)
Taken from a transcript by Peter Goble
Charlotte PICKSTOCK, born 1809, aged 6, admitted 6 January 1815
Father: Isaac PICKSTOCK, Private, Royal Regiment of Veterans
Mother: Sarah
Discharged 5 January 1820
The RMA aimed to educate orphans of British servicemen in the regular army who were killed in the Napoleonic Wars. The 5th Royal Veterans Battalion was stationed in Madeira from July 1809 until September 1814, so Charlotte could well have been brought up in Madeira. Her discharge from the RMA in January 1820 fits with her sailing to the Cape with Richard and Frances in February.
Was Isaac perhaps Richard's brother?
Every breakthrough brings more questions :)
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:o OK - you got me a jibbering wreck here, trying to sort this lot out. I had no idea that education record was there for Charlotte, so brilliant spot!
As for who Isaac is, I can add a bit now. The key is Ancestry's "Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900" - these are very badly named as they have nothing (much) to do with Canada. Instead, the ones I've seen today are WO25 Description Books for the British Army - they simply refer to regiments that, at some time, served in Canada - the soldiers may have gone nowhere near. (Not sure if they've even a/v on a UK only subs). (And they don't always have a description in, either!)
Isaac is also in FindMyPast's "Napoleonic War - Regimental indexes 1806 Transcription" but the source for that appears to be the same books as Ancestry filmed. Isaac is in WO25/339 in the 14th Foot. It gives his birthdate as 8 June 1790 and he joined that regiment on 8 June 1805. Forget Ancestry's index that he was born Hitchen - that's a misinterpretation of " marks as ditto marks, whereas I'm sure they're just showing where the line is. He then moved to the 12th Veterans Battalion on 3 August 1808 (at all of 18y old!). And the Veterans is where he was in the reference to Charlotte.
His 1790 birthdate means he is not Richard the tailor's brother (he does have a brother named Isaac, but he was born in the 1770s. Nor can he be Richard the tailor's son as he has, according to Witton's registers, a daughter Nancy born 7 April 1790 (as mentioned above) - far too close, if the facts are written down correctly.
There is also that young Richard Pickstock who I mentioned - he is also in the WO25 books. He is 16 in the book, born Manchester parish, a tailor, joined the 84th Regiment on August 1808, so Ancestry reckon he's b abt 1792, deserted Nov. 1808. Too many Pickstocks for coincidence?
So I seriously have no idea who "Veteran" Isaac and "Deserter" Richard are, in terms of who their parents are. But Isaac Pickstock is such a rare name that I'm guessing he must be one of mine. Maybe Richard the tailor's brother, Isaac, had some wild oats to sow before his 1795 marriage - except that my best guess for his birth is 1776 - surely he's too young to be the father of Isaac the soldier???
Confused I am......... ??? And I need coffee.......
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These Pickstocks are so interesting! And so confusing! Strong coffee definitely needed when trying to sort them out. I am following these posts with much interest. Like Adrian I have done lots of searching re Sarah, Richard and Isaac.
I did have the five marriages as Adrian outlined in a previous post and took the signatures of each certificate to my family history group and all agreed they were from the same hand! I have also searched extensively for the burial/death of Hannah Pickstock nee Heeley. I have the burial of a Hannah Pickstock in 1825 and although the dates don't quite match I feel that this is a strong contender for the 4th wife of Richard. On the marriage certificate the age is not clear and maybe when she was buried no one knew her exact age. But then this poses another question. Why did Richard go to London and then marry Frances? And where was he between 1808 and 1820?
What has puzzled me is where Charlotte fitted in - the information above really helps to put her in the picture as a relative of Richard. And such an unusual record. But who is her father? In the rate books for Manchester I have a Richard and Isaac living at different times in Thomas Street, Carpenters Lane and Dean Street. The strange fact is that the address is given as a public house. This does not fit well with Richard being a Wesleyan Methodist so maybe not the same family. But as Adrian has pointed out the names are quite unusual. Brother Isaac was certainly in Manchester, his death announcement in the Cheshire Courant of January 1831 states that he is a tailor of Northwich, lately of Manchester. Richard seem to disappear about 1807 and then Isaac about 1813, when the new occupier is a Joseph Pickstock. I am wondering if they were the owners rather than the occupiers and sublet the property. Mr Pickstock (which one I am not sure) was recorded in an advert in Manchester Mercury of 1808 as living in the Sign of the Millstone on Thomas Street. Or is this a red herring!
I am going to slowly digest the last post from Adrian. Somewhere I have seen a post that suggests that Charlotte was the niece of Frances Gravette, the daughter of her sister, born in Madeira. I have some notes somewhere about that family - the sister's name didn't match or make sense but maybe Frances had a sister Sarah. Worth a look.
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.... 1813, when the new occupier is a Joseph Pickstock ....
I noticed that Joseph before in the Rate Books - and (deliberately?) forgot him. Possibly because I have no idea who he might be either.... There are one or two people of that name around but none seem likely to be an occupier in Manchester in 1813. "Unless, of course, you know better...."
Curiouser and curiouser... It's beginning to feel like we have a hole in the data - I might believe we'd got Shropshire Pickstocks (who I haven't studied) going up to Manchester, were it not for the fact that both Richard and Isaac can be absolutely connected to Northwich / Witton.
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:) Another small piece of the jigsaw - I have found a marriage for "Veteran Isaac", father of Charlotte. Via family search and Findmypast there is a marriage in June 1809 in Stoke Darnerel, Devon of an Isaac Pitchstock and Sarah Williams. Looking at the image it could be Pickstock but it also states that Isaac is a Private in the 2nd Royal Veteran Battalion so I think this is our man. Stoke Darnerel is in Plymouth and this is where the 2nd RVB was stationed before leaving for Madeira in July 1809. No baptism found for a Charlotte in Devon.
But it does not help us with the father of Isaac!!
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Oh well done there!!!
I'd absolutely agree that it's our "Veteran Isaac". ("Veteran"? He was all of 18 when he transferred! Could be he was suffering from something? After all, if his daughter goes out to SA with Richard P, one senses that it does not end well for Isaac.)
For anyone who isn't up with the Veteran Battalions, I found this link:http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/Britain/Infantry/Regiments/c_Veterans.html (http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/Britain/Infantry/Regiments/c_Veterans.html)
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Fabulous information about Isaac and Sarah. It's a pity that the birth dates given for Isaac and Nancy seem to rule out Richard being Isaac's father, and hence Charlotte's grandfather. It would explain why Richard moved to London if Charlotte had been sent to a charity school there. I think Isaac must have been a close relation. I have seen a tree on Ancestry which says that Isaac Senior (Richard's father, who died 1815) was one of a large family of siblings, so if Isaac was a family name Richard may have had at least one cousin called Isaac!
If Richard moved to London to help look after Charlotte, perhaps Hannah died in London? I have looked, but no obvious candidates. Have been away overnight and just got back, so am a bit cross-eyed. Will try to think it though a bit more tomorrow.
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Found some more minor stuff for Isaac Pickstock. Ancestry has UK, British Army Muster Books and Pay Lists, 1812-1817 and there are two entries in here for him:
Name: Isaac Pigstock
Start of Muster: 25 Dec 1811
End of Muster: 24 Mar 1812
Stationed or Muster Place: Maidstone
Regiment or Unit: 2nd Veteran Battalion
Piece Number: 11119
Name: Isaac Pigslock
Start of Muster: 25 Dec 1814
End of Muster: 24 Jan 1815
Regiment or Unit: 2nd Veteran Battalion
Piece Number: 11119
Now, there are a couple of things to note here. Firstly I can't blame Ancestry for getting the Pickstock names incorrect - the writing has more style than legibility and I can't swear that the originals do read Pickstock but it's virtually impossible that they're not him.
Similarly, I'm reasonably clear that "Maidstone" is actually "Madeira"!
Also - why the gap? Well, the filmstrip consists of 768 images of what I think is one physical book, TNA ref WO 12/11119. The book seems to consist of a number of quarterly muster-books / pay-lists (not sure if there is a difference) for the 2nd Veterans, all bound together in date order(?). It's my belief that Ancestry have only indexed the first and last pay-lists in the book - I easily found Isaac in the next quarter (sort of Q2 for 1812) but the page was not indexed, and neither are others in the middle of the piece that I've checked. So, I think he would be in every quarter from (sort of) Q1 of 1812 to the last list, which is actually for just one month, ending 24 January 1815. Why that date? Because 20 January 1815 was when 2nd Royal Veteran Battalion was disbanded (I'm not looking for exact matches to within a day).
So that seemed to take Isaac up to January 1815 - which was not quite what I expected, as I thought that the RMA School was for orphans and Charlotte had started there 6 January 1815, while her father turns out to be very much alive. Or at least, being paid as if he was.
However, http://www.richardgilbert.ca/achart/public_html/articles/york/history.html (http://www.richardgilbert.ca/achart/public_html/articles/york/history.html) is about the RMA and right at the bottom of the page is a link to miscellaneous correspondence from researchers - follow that and it seems that there are codes in the Admission Register that indicate whether the father is dead or alive. In other words, it seems like Charlotte need not have been an orphan on admittance after all. So Isaac may well have died after 1815.
What I intend to do is get down to Kew and have a look at the originals of the Admission registers to see what might be there, that isn't in FindMyPast - such as the code for whether Isaac is alive or not. There's also correspondence ledgers for the school and who knows what might be in them. Not sure when I can get but hopefully not too far off - Richard is definitely one of my Pickstocks, so this is bugging me as well!
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Good find! I must be very stupid (didn't sleep too well last night) as I can't see where on the Ancestry record it actually says "Maidstone", to see whether it reads "Madeira".
Will be very interested to hear of any confirmation or otherwise you get at Kew
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As I recollect, it says "Maidstone / Madeira" on the index (statement of the obvious) but on the images, you have to page to the end of the muster-book / pay-list. You then get to what would have been the outer cover of the original. Like many of these, it seems to have been designed to be folded with a short title / summary visible on the outside. It's there that it says whatever it says. Unless my memory is playing me tricks and it was a couple of pages in from the end! It's somewhere round there... (I've not saved the images yet because I'm not really sure what I need to save from a muster-book)
Adrian
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Thanks! I went to the beginning but not to the end!!
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Found it eventually on page 52 (the one right at the end of the book does not have "Where stationed" filled in)
I agree that it says Madeira ;D
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I have been in touch with 2 experts on the Royal Military Asylum (Chelsea), Art Cockerill and Peter Goble (who did the original transcripts for the FindMyPast data referred to above). And many, many thanks to them because.....
Peter has a slightly expanded form of the ledger for Charlotte Pickstock at the RMA - this has codes in to show whether each parent was alive or dead at the point when the child was admitted. In Charlotte's case - both parents were still alive. I was not expecting this - I thought it would be either both or maybe one had died. Now, of course, I worry I've dismissed other candidates for Isaac and Sarah Pickstock under the impression that they should have been dead.
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Very interesting. It seems hard to imagine why Charlotte would have accompanied Richard and Frances to the Cape in 1820 if her parents were still alive. Maybe something happened between 1815 and 1820. Oh for a time machine!
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... It seems hard to imagine why Charlotte would have accompanied Richard and Frances to the Cape in 1820 if her parents were still alive. ...
Indeed - I think something must have been awry in 1815 when she was admitted, otherwise why would they admit her to the school?
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Further to the comments above, Peter Goble (to whom thanks) says that:
"As she was admitted in 1815, if under 7 she will have been sent to the Southampton branch or the Isle of Wight. As they got older, then they will have moved to either Southampton or Chelsea, all forming part of the running of the schools, assisting with baby minding, cooking, laundry and general duties along with their trade training and schooling."
Peter suggests that Isaac's regimental books of varying sorts should be investigated. So it looks like a visit to Kew at some point for me - I'll see what can be found online first in preparation and get my head round the differences between the various types of books.
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According to the Description Book of the 2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment of Foot referred to above in Ancestry's Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900, Isaac Pickstock has a date of birth of 8 June 1790. If true, this means he cannot be a son of Richard Pickstock as Richard and his wife Margaret / Peggy nee Woodward, have a daughter, Nancy, born 7 April 1790.
However, I have just realised that the Description Book's dates of birth on these pages are nonsense. When comparing the column headed "Date of Birth" with the column for date "Enlisted in the present Corps", it becomes clear that the day and month for the birth are identical to the day and month that the soldier enlisted.
Looking at the page for Isaac, 8 soldiers have a "Date of Birth" completed - all joined up younger than 18 and all have an enlistment day and month equal to the birth day and month. Assuming that the Army would accurately record the enlistment date, the only possible explanation is that the birth date is a purely nominal value based on the age at recruitment, and that Isaac could, therefore, have been born any time in the 12 months prior to 8 June 1790 - if the age is even correct.
I did wonder if Isaac might have been a twin for Nancy, but Nancy is recorded as baptised at Witton (i.e. Northwich), Cheshire, and there is no sign of a twin brother for her.
So - the major objection to Isaac being Richard's son seems to have fallen by the wayside. Though it's still not clear where he might fit, other than possibly between Nancy and her parents' marriage.
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I shall add this URL to this mail because it took me ages to find it (I've been trying to find as many old Charlotte Pickstock (who m. a Gravett) postings as I can, particularly of Val de Kock's work, to get as close as I can to the original work)
The URL is http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SOUTH-AFRICA/2000-03/0952699114 (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SOUTH-AFRICA/2000-03/0952699114) but I shall quote it here:
From: "W Jervois" <w.jervois@ru.ac.za>
Subject: Re: GRAVETT
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:38:34 +0200
According to an undated newspaper cutting in our Gravett file, Charlotte was born on the island of Madeira, to which her father, formerly a soldier in Wellington's army, had been invalided. After the death of her father, she came to South Africa with her grandfather, in 1820, when she was 10 years old. She died at the Karreiga Mouth, on 26th June, 1905, aged 94 years and 6 months.
With best wishes
William
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William Jervois Resident Genealogist, Albany Museum
Somerset Street, Grahamstown
Notice that bit: "the island of Madeira, to which her father, formerly a soldier in Wellington's army, had been invalided". I didn't realise that the story of her father being an invalid had got down to South Africa. And it fits perfectly with the recent confirmation that we have that Isaac was in the 2nd Bn of the Royal Veterans. Of course, the great temptation is to say that if the newspaper was right about the invalid bit, then there must be a good chance it was right about the rest!
Strange really: the posts from 2000 or so are standing up well, it's the other stuff like her birthplace of Madeira being Madeira St, in London, that seem less plausible.
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I have a little more about Isaac Pickstock's military career now, and I have found his death. I got this from the military records at TNA Kew but suspect the TNA well may have run dry.
My first concern was that the Isaac in the 2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment of Foot was actually transferred to the 12th Royal Veterans (according to the 2nd Bn's Description Book on Ancestry), when we have him in the 2nd RV. Was this an error or worse - were there two of that name?
The 12th RV's Muster Book & Pay List is at Kew as WO12/11199. This shows that Isaac was transferred into Captain William Beard's Company of the 12th Royal Veterans, based at Youghal, County Cork, with effect from 4 August 1808, from the 14th. No clue why, it just says by order General Floyd - however, he wasn't the only one.
The Muster Book & Pay List even shows us a little of what he did, because the Army had to pay out expenses for a couple of marches he went on. On 4 August 1808, he was on a 2-day march from Fermoy to Youghal (probably going from the 14th Foot to the 12th RV). Then on 12 September 1808, he was in a group of 31 who went on a 5d march from Youghal to Cork.
In October 1808, he was transferred into the 2nd Royal Veterans. His first day in the 2nd RV was 25 October - Army documentation is precise about this - don't want him getting paid twice for one day! Again, no clue why but again, not the only one.
We know he got married and went to Madeira with the 2nd RV.
His exact date of leaving Madeira is not known - it looks like the 2nd RV came back in parts and some of the officers were 8d in transit, but he arrived off Portsmouth on or about 27 October 1814. Unfortunately he and some others were "Sent on Shore Sick" (WO 12/12957, Muster Book & Pay List for Hilsea Depot). On 28 October, Isaac was transferred onto the books of the Hilsea Depot - which included a hospital - but died the same day (or possibly early the next day - I don't know when Army days start and finish for payment purposes).
He died owing the Army 18s 7d. Maybe they were paid in advance? Including Isaac, 4 of the 2nd RV died at Hilsea in the first month back. (WO 25/2354 Hilsea Depot Casualty Returns)
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Charlotte at the RMA
Now, you may remember that Peter Goble, transcriber of the Royal Military Asylum admissions register, had both Charlotte's parents alive at her admission on 6 January 1815 - which doesn't match the idea that Isaac died in October of the previous year. Having examined the Admissions Register myself (WO 143/24), it turns out that Charlotte's entry is a little odd. I can't blame Peter for reading both parents as alive but I had a bit more time to spend on just one entry than he did.
The relevant column in the Admissions Register has the names of both parents - father on the left, mother on the right. Above each parental name is the word "alive" or "dead". Except it's not quite like that. The top entry on the page has the words in full ("Dead Alive" on this page for the topmost set of parents). Thereafter, ditto marks are used except when the word is to change.
Oddity number 1 for Charlotte's entry is that it has the single word "alive" across the column of both names. I saw no other entry like that. What was it supposed to mean? Were both alive, as Peter Goble concluded?
If we assume that it was supposed to mean that her mother, Sarah, was alive, then the sequence of entries reading down the mothers' names reads (starting with Sarah) "alive", two dittoes, "alive". Hang on - that makes no sense. Why isn't that second "alive" just a ditto? Why write the word in when a ditto mark would do? Alternative conclusion - the "alive" didn't apply to Sarah after all, and she was dead at Charlotte's admission.
So maybe the "alive" applied to Isaac? (Which doesn't match his Army records, of course). If it did, then we have a sequence reading "alive", several dittoes, "alive". Same argument. Why is that second "alive" written in when a ditto mark would do? Same conclusion - the "alive" didn't apply to Isaac either, and he was dead at Charlotte's admission, as per his Army records.
Which leaves us with the word "alive" making no sense. I think that the explanation is that "alive" is a later correction - I can convince myself that the pen-nib and ink are just slightly different. I think that maybe when Richard and Frances asked for Charlotte to join them in 1819/20, then the clerk altered the original entry (which was "ditto ditto" meaning "dead dead") to read "alive" to signify that she had living (albeit adoptive) parents. Or, of course, the original entry for Sarah as dead was incorrect, and was corrected at some time.
And that is just about that for Charlotte. I have looked at most of the RMA correspondence books and they either don't refer to children at all or don't refer to her.
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Adrian, thank you so much for taking the trouble to track all this stuff down. The Val that you mention in #25 was the friend for whom I started this query, now sadly deceased. She would have been over the moon with all this new information. Interesting that there is now a possibility that Charlotte was indeed Richard's granddaughter, as family legend has maintained in South Africa.
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I am a direct descendent of Charlotte Pickstock and used to help Val with her research for her book many years ago. I am sorry to hear she has died. My mom used to have all these family stories about Charlotte that you have corroborated. I can't tell you how excited I am to share your research with her. Would you be so kind as to clarify the relationship between Charlotte's parents and Richard Pickstock with whom she came to South Africa in 1820.
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I found on Find My past website: England Devon Parish Register 1538-1912 Entry #530
Isaac Pickstock of 2 Royal Veteran Battalion marries Sarah Williams (of this parish) on 6 June 1809 in Stoke Dameral, Devon, England. Are these Charlotte's parents?
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Audrey - that's the correct marriage for Charlotte's parents, yes.
My personal belief is that Isaac Pickstock (Charlotte's father) is the son of Richard Pickstock, who took Charlotte out to South Africa. However, the only evidence for this is the statements out in South Africa that Richard is Charlotte's grandfather. Since so many of the stories (Madeira, etc.) are consistent with what we now know to be reality, I see no reason to doubt that there is at the very least a close connection. There is no reason for Richard to go and collect Charlotte from the RMA school / home unless she was related to him. I can't find any direct evidence linking Isaac to Richard but the details of Richard's children are a muddle, split between Manchester (both CofE and non-conformist) and St. Helen church at Witton, Cheshire. The first daughter named Margaret, for instance, is only known by her burial at Witton. It is easy to believe there is at least one missing. There isn't even a baptism for Richard himself (his parents are Isaac Pickstock and Ann / Nancy Carr) but the baptism of Richard's first known daughter (Ann / Nancy) at Witton is in an era when there are lots of details in Witton's registers, including the child's grandparents.
I guess there is a chance that Isaac could be a child of one of Richard's siblings, rather than Richard himself. However, Richard is the eldest and the others seem too young if Isaac is born about 1790.
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Thanks so much for explanation. I again, am extremely grateful for the thorough research you have done into this.