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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: las camelias on Monday 21 May 07 19:07 BST (UK)

Title: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 21 May 07 19:07 BST (UK)
Still on the trail of the GOVIER family.  Have identified Philip GOVIER born June Q 1923 Swansea, mother's maiden name MEAGHER.  Can anyone help me to find a marriage between GOVIER and MEAGHER in the Swansea area that would fit with Philip's birth in 1923?  I need a better pair of eyes - mind just aren't finding it!  With thanks.
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Monday 21 May 07 20:30 BST (UK)
Hi,Do you have any first names to go on?
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 21 May 07 20:48 BST (UK)
Philip gave his father's name as Jack on his marriage lines.  Any help?
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 22 May 07 10:56 BST (UK)
Do you have the birth certificate? Could it be that Philip's mother had been married previously, so the marriage would not show up as Govier-Meagher?

Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:14 BST (UK)
Thank you for your interest Osprey.  No, don't have birth certificate, only marriage certificate to Iris Fox in 1943 Chalfont St. Peter Bucks. 

Philip gives his age as 21 and his father as Jack Govier.  Philip Govier born in Swansea 1923 seems to be the only one that fits with his age at marriage.


Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:21 BST (UK)
Don't know if this is any thing to do with it but my uncle Jack was christened John so I looked for a John GOVIER marriage and found
Govier John H J    BUTT Swansea 11 a 2016 Dec qtr 1913 It gives either Emmie BUTT or Mary E Butt as the bride
Trees
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Necromancer on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:22 BST (UK)
was that Taunton Cert a dead-end then LC ?  :(

(Not stalking you,  :D can I delete PMs now then ?)
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:36 BST (UK)
Hey Newfy, happy Tuesday!
Yes, the Taunton birth was a no-go.  I asked them to check for middle name Joseph - which is the name on the marriage certificate - and it wasn't on the one in Taunton.  Am I right to dismiss it?
The Swansea one seems to fit more closely with age.
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:39 BST (UK)
Assuming that you have searched birth indexes for Philip in 1922  and not found him,I would send for birth cert and see what that throws up.I have found a Jack Norman Govier born Swansea Sept qtr 1894 living at 104 Neath Road Swansea in 1901 son of William and Catherine.Also found sisters Ellen b 1890 and Mary 1900(Meagher) born Liverpool but living in Swansea in High St on the 1901.
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Necromancer on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:41 BST (UK)
Careful about duplication of effort here folks ...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,233625.msg1250498.html#msg1250498
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Tuesday 22 May 07 11:54 BST (UK)
Thanks Gwen J,

I am working along the lines that Jack Norman Govier born c1894 on the 1901 Census Swansea is the Jack Govier named as father on Philip's marriage lines.  And you say there were two MEAGHER (sisters) living in Swansea High Street on the 1901 Census - from Liverpool.  Maybe that's a link then.

Newfy, don't frighten my helpers away!  I am going round in circles on this one.

Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 May 07 15:20 BST (UK)
Have you searched the complete index for Jack Govier marriages, Las Camelias?

If he's the only Philip born in the right time frame then surely the thing to do is to order the birth cert ...

 :)


   
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 15:54 BST (UK)
Will keep looking tonight.
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 16:34 BST (UK)
I'm banging my head here! On Philip's marriage cert is his father still alive and if so what is his occupation?
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Tuesday 22 May 07 16:37 BST (UK)
Hi Gwen J, ... what do you mean YOU are banging your head?  Me too!

On the marriage certificate there is nothing to say that Jack Govier was deceased.  His occupation is given as Foreman.

Keep calm!
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 16:48 BST (UK)
Back again.The Ellen Meagher that I found on the 1901 census was the daughter of a Phillip!Was common practice the name your first son after your father.Will persue!
Gwen
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 17:59 BST (UK)
Have found a marriage for  Ellen and what looks like "Meagher" june qtr 1910 in Swansea 11a 1513 but don't who to whom.Will ask forum for help.
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 May 07 18:07 BST (UK)
Gwen - it's either James Dow Clarke Jones or Albert Edward Burtonshaw, apparently  :-\
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 18:14 BST (UK)
Not who we hoped for then!
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Tuesday 22 May 07 18:20 BST (UK)
Right,this is my theory,for what it's worth.Ellen Married one those options mentioned above.She's widowed and marries Jack Govier.Can't find that mariage because Jack is really some other name ie John and Ellen marries using her late husbands name not maiden!Hows that?
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 23 May 07 09:28 BST (UK)
Why don't you order the birth certificate as already suggested by several posters. The point I tried to make yesterday is that all previous of his mother should be on his birth certificate. It would also give father's name, possibly a fuller version. Take things a step at a time. Order the birth cert, get the info, then look for the marriage with extra info.
Less painful than banging your head!
 ;D
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: las camelias on Wednesday 23 May 07 12:52 BST (UK)
OK, I give in ... I'll order the birth certificate! 

Many thanks to Newfy, Osprey, Gwen J and Tati for the help. 

Don't be surprised when I post another topic in about a week's time with the same names ... again!
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Wednesday 23 May 07 20:54 BST (UK)
P.S Some Death Certs give place of birth.That might be worth a try to establish that you've got the right Phillip Govier.
Gwen
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: ellasian on Saturday 10 September 11 15:30 BST (UK)
Gwen - it's either James Dow Clarke Jones or Albert Edward Burtonshaw, apparently  :-\

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but Ellen Meagher(b1880) married my great great uncle Albert Edward Burtonshaw (b1887 d1911) He's burried in Danygraig cemetry Swansea.
best wishes M
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: gwen j on Saturday 10 September 11 16:21 BST (UK)
Gosh,this is an old one but have been re rading the link. Have found a marriage Dec 1/4 1924 in Gower,thats close to swansea,for a Jack Nornam Govier and an Edith M Bale.
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Morganllan on Sunday 11 September 11 01:56 BST (UK)
Hello M  :)

Welcome to Rootschat!

Hopefully las camelias will receive a notification of your reply and be able to respond soon

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: jessiedoll89 on Wednesday 13 November 13 11:43 GMT (UK)
 las camelias i am curious about your posts from phillip j Govier as it sounds like you maybe talking about my grand fathers Brother he died in the d day landings aged 21 and my grandpas mothers name was irish and named Ellen Marr (maiden name ) i have always been wondering about philip are you related to him?? if you are it would be awesome to get in touch as my grandpa knew very little about wht happened to him although we did find his grave in 2001
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: jessiedoll89 on Wednesday 13 November 13 12:40 GMT (UK)
my mother also has a photo of philip if you would like to see it i hope to hear from you soon as it would be very interesting to find out i know that he got married but that my grandfathers family did not know his wife (also my grandpa was very young at the time so did not remember much)
Title: Re: Who were his parents?
Post by: Morganllan on Friday 21 February 14 21:15 GMT (UK)
Hello Jessiedoll89  :)

Welcome to Rootschat!

Once you have made another posting on here, you will be able to use the Personal Message system to contact other members and exchange information such as email address.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page:  http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

Best Wishes
Morgan