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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ~Rachel~ on Monday 21 May 07 15:29 BST (UK)

Title: Family scandal!
Post by: ~Rachel~ on Monday 21 May 07 15:29 BST (UK)
Was having an idle chat with my aunt the other day when she told me somethiing that shocked me - I can't believe that my whole famly have known I've been researching our history yet nobody told me!

It was about my great great aunt, Ellen Elizabeth Waite. I always knew she ran off to America after the WW1 with a soldier.

However, what I DIDN'T know was that before this she had been forced into a marriage by her father - who seems to have been a very nasty character (rumour goes that he SOLD her!! did things like this really happen??!).  So aged about 14 she married a Scotsman who was very cruel to her, and she gave birth to two boys.

It was after this that she met the American - so she abandoned her babies and ran off to the US!

As you can imagine I would LOVE to find out more about this, slightly stumped at where to start though.  ::)

Just felt the need to share the story with someone!

Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: avm228 on Monday 21 May 07 16:04 BST (UK)
Scandalous indeed!

Do you know her date and place of birth - and/or whether she married the cruel Scotsman in England or Scotland?

Anna
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: avm228 on Monday 21 May 07 16:06 BST (UK)
Oh...

and also the names and any further info re

1.  Cruel Scotsman
2. Two sons by cruel Scotsman
3. American soldier

Anna
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: ~Rachel~ on Monday 21 May 07 16:36 BST (UK)
Ellen was born in 1893 in Bradfield, Berkshire.

Other than that I don't know anything.  ???
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: avm228 on Monday 21 May 07 16:59 BST (UK)
That is tricky - without knowing her married surname(s) I should think it will be well nigh impossible to trace what became of Ellen Elizabeth.  It's a shame, because if she went to the US after WW1 she is likely to appear in the 1920 and 1930 censuses and possibly also in published migration records.

Do you think your aunt might remember anything more about the Scot/the American/the sons?  The smallest snippet can be an important clue.

Incidentally, am I right in thinking that Ellen's father Thomas appears to be bigamously married in the 1901 census?

Anna
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: KathMc on Monday 21 May 07 19:01 BST (UK)
Obvious question, but have you checked the BMDs or scotlandsoeple for a marriage and tried to get a marriage cert? That could be a great start. You might even be able to find the kids then also. I know it's pretty obvious, but worth a shot.

Kath
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: BagpussBee on Tuesday 22 May 07 12:04 BST (UK)
What a great story ! -

You said she ran off to America after WW1 with a soldier.

Was he definately American? I just didn't think there were any Americans over here during the first world war - (please correct me if I am wrong!!)

Not that that means he wasn't American of course - (just saying).
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 May 07 12:51 BST (UK)
There were some Americans over here with the CEF (Canadian) in WW1 - at least one of our family married an American (signed up to the CEF) over here just after WW1.

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: ~Rachel~ on Tuesday 22 May 07 16:59 BST (UK)
Do you think your aunt might remember anything more about the Scot/the American/the sons?  The smallest snippet can be an important clue.

I'm really really hoping so! She and the rest of my family have actually MET the Americans, back in the 60s. Unfortunately at the moment all anyone seems to remember is a few first names, no surnames.  :( We got the photos out a few weeks ago to try and jog some memories but to no avail.

Kath - I've ordered a couple of marriage certs so far, both which are definitely not the one I'm after. Can't find anything on scotlands people. Next two on my list are:

Ellen Elizabeth Waite 1906 Apr-May-Jun   Bath Avon, Somerset   
Ellen Elizabeth Waite 1909 Jul-Aug-Sep    Mutford  Suffolk 

Bagpuss - nope I don't even know if he was definitely American!

Incidentally, am I right in thinking that Ellen's father Thomas appears to be bigamously married in the 1901 census?

I'm very interested you should say that - what happened to Thomas has been driving me up the wall! I take it you mean this family:

Josie Waite 5 
Rose Waite 30 
Stanley Waite 9 
Thomas Waite 28 

living in Eckington, Worcestershire?

I've looked into this before and can't find a marriage for a Thomas Waite and Rose - nor can I find birth certs for  Stanley and Josie Waite. I wonder if they were illegitimate children of my Thomas or prehaps the children of somebody else? I know from my grandfather that Thomas walked out on his wife Edith, which is probably why she is back living at home with her parents on the 1901 census.

Obviously if someone could prove me wrong at least I could draw a line through that option!
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 22 May 07 17:13 BST (UK)

I'm very interested you should say that - what happened to Thomas has been driving me up the wall! I take it you mean this family:

Josie Waite 5 
Rose Waite 30 
Stanley Waite 9 
Thomas Waite 28 

living in Eckington, Worcestershire?

I've looked into this before and can't find a marriage for a Thomas Waite and Rose - nor can I find birth certs for  Stanley and Josie Waite. I wonder if they were illegitimate children of my Thomas or prehaps the children of somebody else? I know from my grandfather that Thomas walked out on his wife Edith, which is probably why she is back living at home with her parents on the 1901 census.

Obviously if someone could prove me wrong at least I could draw a line through that option!

Yes, that's the family I was referring to.  What it looks like to me is Thomas having left Edith and living with Rose as man and wife.  They may well not have married, despite what they told the enumerator - he was a bit close to home to get away with bigamy ;)  If the children aren't registered as Waite then perhaps Rose brought them with her from a previous marriage/relationship.

Anna
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: Simplex4wd on Tuesday 22 May 07 18:29 BST (UK)
The Americans joined World War one in 1917 so it is quite possible that some were based in England, either on the way to France or on the way back to the States. I'd have thought there would have been more Canadians than US troops in the UK but it's not impossible.
I don't know if "Overpaid, oversexed and over here" applied to WW1 as it did in WW2  ;)

Tim
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: ~Rachel~ on Wednesday 23 May 07 08:10 BST (UK)
It's so difficult with things like this to distinguish what's actually fact and what is just a family rumour.

I'm making lots of assumptions at the moment - for example that Ellen got married in England somewhere near the Berkshire area, if I keep coming up with blanks then I suppose I'll have to widen the criteria. I'm determined to come up with something though!
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: waiteohman on Thursday 24 May 07 03:17 BST (UK)
Hi Rachel

In free BMD for Dec 1886 Marriages for Bristol quarter v.6a p.112 there is this group of names:
Budd  Rebecca
DAVIS  James   
May  Rose   
WAITE  Thomas   

A possibility. You would need to rule out Rebecca marrying Thomas by checking the 1901 to see it there is a James & Rebecca Davis and hopefully not a James & Rose Davis.

Linda
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: ~Rachel~ on Friday 25 May 07 21:06 BST (UK)
Ermmm think I'm confusing myself here!

Found this on the 1891 census:

Mary Budd Waite 18 
Rebecca Waite 50 
Thomas Waite 41 
Walter C Waite 16 

So I am thinking that Thomas Waite married Rebecca Budd who already had a couple of kids - hence the eldest being called Mary Budd Waite.

Also that would make Thomas Waite far too old to be my one.


Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 27 May 07 02:42 BST (UK)
I have discovered that many Europeans equate Canadians with Americans...just to throw another variable at you ;D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Family scandal!
Post by: marysma on Friday 01 June 07 21:07 BST (UK)
 Hello all,

               my g,aunt Mabel married a WW1 american soldier named

               Wilbur P Brown from New York.

               Aunt mabel lived in Cardiff,S,Wales--and I often wonder where
               she would have met him.

                MM