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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: cath151 on Monday 14 May 07 18:49 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Could anyone possibly tell me if, in 1841 there were two different workhouses in Hailsham?Hellingly or were they the same one.
I ask because i have two different records for hopefully, mother and son.
James Sinnock (transcribed Sinnet) 8
Hellingly Union Workhouse
Ho 107 Piece 1114, book 11, folio 48, page 3.
Mary Sinnock 40
Hailsham union Workhouse
Ho 107 piece 1114, book 10, folio 51, page 2.
Also, i think they have records of inmates in sussex records, does anyone know what information would be in these records?
I do get mixed up with my references but i would think that they might be the same workhouse.
Many thanks for looking,
Cathy
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You should find plenty of workhouse information here.
http://www.workhouse.org
Jebber
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Hellingly and Hailsham are two different small towns in Sussex. Although, I do not know for sure, I would hazard a guess that they were in 2 different places because it was common practice to split males and females and the son, being 8, would be considered old enough to work and to be independent of his mother. It was a hard life for people in the workhouse. Victorian attitudes were that those in the workshouse must have done something to have brought about their fate. That is why most tried, at all cost, to avoid going there.
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After 1834
Hailsham Poor Law Union was formed on 10th April 1835. Its operation was overseen by an elected Board of Guardians, 16 in number, representing its 11 constituent parishes as listed below (figures in brackets indicate numbers of Guardians if more than one):
County of Sussex: Arlington, Chiddingly, Hailsham (2), Heathfield (2), Hellingley [Hellingly] (2), Herstmonceux (2), Hooe, Laughton, Ninfield, Warbleton (2), Wartling.
Later Additions: Chalvington (from 1898), Ripe (from 1898).
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Hi,
Brilliant, thankyou all,
I will now definately research further as i think i have found my missing link in James!
I didnt realise they were two seperate towns.
Best wishes
Cathy :)
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Hi Cathy
I live in Hailsham and I believe the Workhouse was in the centre of town (now called Stoney Lane), the Hellingly Workhouse is down the road from me, Hellingly being a very small village about 1 mile outside Hailsham. The area where the workhouse was is still called Union Corner today. I just about remember one of the buildings still standing till about the 1980s.
Kerry
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Hi again
This page will tell you a little about the Hailsham workhouse
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/index.html
Kerry :)
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Hi Kerry,
Thanks for the invaluble local knowledge, so the two workhouses were nt too far away from each other, making my theory possible. The website was interesting too.
Thankyou again
cathy :)
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No not far away at all, about 1 mile I would say. I use that website quite a lot and it has some invaluable information on it.
Kerry ;D
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The Hailsham Union workhouse registers are now online at FamilySearch, and if you had people in and out of them like mine then they are a gold mine of information.
After changes to the poor laws in 1834 the Hailsham Union was formed in 1835 and the new Board of Guardians in 1835 sought tenders to build a big new workhouse at Horsebridge in Hellingly parish by the border with Hailsham parish. It may have been built where the old Hellingly poor house was but I am unsure about that. But it wasn't finished in an instant and the old poorhouses in the surrounding parishes didn't disappear overnight.
The idea of the law changes was that from then on poor relief was to be administered by the workhouse system, which was much tougher than the indoor and outdoor systems offered previously.
The surrounding parishes that made up the new Hailsham Union had pre-existing poorhouses and they didn't disappear straightaway, and some were used as workhouses for a time even when the big new workhouse was finished. For example I know that in 1841 my ancestor James WRIGHT & family, who had been resident at Ore by Hastings since about 1830, were admitted to the old poor house at Hurstmonceux parish not far from Hailsham village. I think that the old poorhouse in Hailsham village may have been in use as a workhouse into the 1850s ( I think James' mother Elizabeth died there in 1836), and these days I think I've read that it houses the local Hailsham council. In the workhouse registers I have seen a couple of examples of persons moved from the new workhouse to one of the old ones.
Workhouses had hospital wings or infirmaries, and they weren't necessarily a bad place to be. Locals were treated better than transients. The most common reason I've seen for being in the workhouses was "no work." They exited when they found work again. Other reasons included illegitimate pregnancy, illness, temporary or permanent disability, and infirmity. An unstated reason, which can be inferred, is that someone went into the workhouse when they were on their way out, sort of like a hospice when no one was in a position to look after them otherwise. The local workhouse was often all an area had in the way of a hospital-like facility.
Peter
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I should have added that being an orphan was another common reason for being in a workhouse.
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Hi Peter,
Thanks so much, so will get onto it, just shows new records are being transcribed and added every week !
My James and his mother are still a mystery after my original post so perhaps this might help with a long standing brickwall.
Thanks for the interesting info about the workhouses too
Off to do a search. :)
Best wishes
Cathy
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Hi Peter
Could you possibly send a link to the correct record page on familysearch, I often find it hard to track down a specific set of records on there.
Many thanks
Cathy
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Go into Familysearch and click on the Catalog tab.
Do a place search typing Hailsham into the search box.
England, Sussex, Hailsham will come up as the only option, Click it then click search.
Click on the Poorhouses link.
Then click on the Workhouse Records link.
There are five films which have been scanned. They have key symbols by the icons but don't worry, they aren't actually locked and you don't have to go to an LDS FHC to view them, you can view them from home on your computer. At this point, if you aren't logged in you will be prompted to log in (registration is free).
Go through this process again for any place to see what Familysearch currently has for a place. In the time before the Familysearch website was formed we used the Locality Index on microfiche when we visited an FHC, which was the forerunner of the Catalog on the website.
You'll notice that they also have Hailsham OPR, but they are definitely locked so that you'll have to go to your nearest FHC to access the the scans there. They aren't the original registers, they are transcriptions up to 1812.
It is best to go through the the Hailsham Union workhouse registers in the order in which the films were created, which was generally in chronological order. There is no index to the registers and you'll be a while working through them if you have a go at all of them. It's easy to miss entries, so don't be in a hurry. And I hope your eyesight is good!
See my list in my next message of the films in the correct order they were made. The old East Sussex CRO microfilm numbers (at the start of each film) are not the same as the LDS film numbers re the digital scans.
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Hailsham Union Workhouse Registers
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Old workhouses operating before the Hailsham Union [film 4427696]
Arlington
Chiddingly
Hailsham
Heathfield
Hellingly
Hooe
Hurstmonceux
Laughton
Ninfield
Warbleton [Warbelton]
Wartling
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The workhouse registers observed quarter days, the days on which quarters of the year ended roughly coinciding with the two solstices and the two equinoxes. They are the days when accounts traditionally were settled, rents paid, &c. We sometimes see all the residents of a workhouse enumerated at the start of a quarter in some workhouse registers, sort of a census of the workhouse, and on these occasions the date given is not necessarily an admission date..
Lady Day 25 March aka Lady Tide
Midsummer 24 June
Michaelmas 29 September
Christmas 25 December
Lady Day was the old beginning of the New Year until 1752 when the beginning of the year was changed to 1st Jan. The British tax year still starts on "Old" Lady Day (6 April under the Gregorian calendar corresponded to 25 March under the Julian calendar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter_days
The cross-quarter days are four holidays falling in between the quarter days: Candlemas (2 February), May Day (1 May), Lammas (1 August), and All Hallows (1 November).
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FHL Film 4427696
G5/14/1 Item 5 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1836
[Hurstmonceux ]
G5/14/2 Item 6 Admission and Discharge Registers 1836-1841
[Hurstmonceux ]
G5/14/3 Item 7 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1836
[a general register with pages for individual workhouses?]
G5/14/4 Item 8 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1843
[Hailsham House]
G5/14/5 Item 9 Admission and Discharge Registers 1847-1854
[ is this Hailsham House]
G5/14/6 Item 10 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1836
[Warbleton]
G5/14/7 Item 11 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1836
[a general register with pages for individual workhouses?]
G5/14/8 Item 12 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1838
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FHL Film 4427321
G5/14/8 Item 1 Admission and Discharge Registers 1835-1838
G5/14/9 Item 2 Admission and Discharge Registers 1838-1840
G5/14/10 Item 3 Admission and Discharge Registers 1843-1847 [Hellingly]
[continues on item 1 on FHL film 4427321]
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FHL Film 4426953
This film actually starts 20 Jun 1847 in the second quarter of 1847 because it is the continuation of G5/14/10 item 3 on FHL Film 4427321. Finishes 23 Sep 1847 ]
G5/14/10 Item 1 Admission and Discharge Registers 1843-1847 [Hellingly]
[sic - should be 2Q 1847-23 Sep 1847)
G5/14/11 Item 2 Admission and Discharge Registers 1847-1849 [Hellingly]
G5/14/12 Item 3 Admission and Discharge Registers 1849-1851 [Hellingly]
[ Last entry 24 Jun 1851. Register continues item 1 FHL Film 4427697]
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FHL Film 4427697
This film starts June 25 1851 (start of quarter ending at Michaelmas on 29th Sept 1851).
G5/14/13 Item 1 Admission and Discharge Registers 1851-1854
G5/14/14 Item 2 Admission and Discharge Registers 1854-1857
G5/14/15 Item 3 Admission and Discharge Registers 1857-1859
[ Last entry 21 Sep 1859. Continues item 1 FHL Film 4427570 ]
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FHL Film 4427570
This film starts 23 Sep 1859 (start of quarter ending Xmas 1859)
G5/14/16 Item 1 Admission and Discharge Registers 1859-1862
G5/16/1 Item 2 Birth Register 1836-1869
G5/18/1 Item 3 Death Register 1836-1870
G5/18/2 Item 4 Death Register 1870-1890
Hastings Union
HH/20/2 Item 5 Death Register 1866-1890
----------------------------------------------------------------
Peter
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Example.
Here's the burial of my ancestor Elizabeth WRIGHT need WOOD at Hailsham.
04 Jun 1836 Burial @ Hailsham parish
Elizabeth WRIGHT, 87, abode Hailsham. Officiating Minister was R. WELCH
[ Hailsham OPR - Burials 1813-1877, East Sussex CRO ]
And this is my transcript of the entries concerning her in a workhouse register (which I think was for the old workhouse in Hailsham village, not the new one built for the Hailsham Union).
FHL Film 4427696
East Sussex Record Office
Hailsham Union Workhouse Admission and Discharge Registers
//
Image 423
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6824-X1W?i=422&cat=693328
G5/14/3 1835-1836 item 7
//
Image 426
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6824-NXC?i=425&cat=693328
Admitted 26 Dec 1835
Elizabeth WHRITE, female, age 87, number 2, Church [of England], admitted by order of the Board (of Guardians), settlement Hailsham.
Discharged 1 Jun 1836
Elizabeth WRIGHT, time in the house 9 weeks and 6 days, discharged due to death.
//
Image 427
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6824-XYF?i=426&cat=693328
Admitted 26 Dec 1835
Mary WHRITE, female, age 32, number 13, Church [of England], admitted by order of the Board (of Guardians), settlement Hailsham.
Ruth WHRITE, female, age 4, number 14, Church [of England], admitted by order of the Board (of Guardians), settlement Hailsham.
Discharged 9 Feb 1836
Mary WRIGHT, time in the house 6 weeks and 4 days, discharged Pregnant by order of Board of Guardians, behaviour good.
Ruth WRIGHT, time in the house 6 weeks and 4 days, discharged by order of Board of Guardians, behaviour good.
Mary WRIGHT was Elizabeth's daughter-in-law Mary HOLLANDS whose husband Aaron had died earlier in 1835. Ruth is Mary's daughter. It wasn't long after this that Mary was back in the workhouse, pregnant, where she had an illegitimate daughter Hariot. They left the workhouse of their own accord but were back soon after and Hariot died in the workhouse aged only 5 months. Mary and Ruth were in and out of the workhouse like they had their own special revolving door. Ruth was later an orphan in the workhouse and later still she had two illegitimate children born in the workhouse.
Elizabeth's son Michael WRIGHT and his family were also in and out of the workhouse. Michael died there in 1850 having entered due to infirmity and son Levi died there in 1860 having entered due to illness.
When these people were able-bodied and not illegitimately pregnant. their reason for being in the workhouse was usually "no work."
I knew that these people were poor, being of travelling stock, and that they had suffered removals following settlement examinations on some occasions, but the workhouse records have blown me away. I have found over 100 records in the workhouse registers of the Hailsham Union pertaining to my people.
Michael tenanted a very small plot of land in the tithe applotments for Hailsham but it obviously wasn't enough to support his family when he was out of work.
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Elizabeth WRIGHT's stated time in the house I think relates to the quarter to which the register record of her death applied, it doesn't mean from the time we first her recorded in the register which implies a far longer time period.
In fact I think the date of admission for her 26 Dec 1835, the first day of the new quarter starting 26 Dec and finishing 24th Mar 1836, is actually more like a censis of inmates on that date, because there are loads of entries for the inmates on that date. i.e. she had entered the workhouse earlier than 26 December 1835.
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Hi again,
Thanks so much Peter, very interesting to read and thanks to your help I have found Mary Sinnock b1801 servant who was admitted due to having "left her service at Hailsham House" (I think).
Off to work now but back to search for James :)
Cathy