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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Flintshire => Wales => Flintshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ninian on Friday 11 May 07 14:25 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for the baptism of Richard Jones in Holywell Parish Church in 1828/29.
Can anyone help me please?
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How do you know for definite that the Baptism took place at Holywell Parish Church?
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Well, I'm not 100% sure but I have his original marriage certif of 1855 and he was married in Holywell parish church. Also the family are from Bagillt (from at least mid 1700s up to today) and Bagillt was part of Holywell parish in the 1820s and the church in Bagillt was not built til much later, so the parish church in Holywell was the 'local' church. So it seemed a fair bet that Richard was baptised there? Do you think I'm on the wrong track?
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Your not necessarily on the wrong track,but I am quite curious about your Jones Family,as I also have a Jones bloodline from Bagillt!Do you have any Hughes,Humphreys,Price or Evans from Bagillt?
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
wrexham.
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Oh right, that's interesting. I have got some Prices (but rather distant) and not the others.
My Granmother was Marguarite Roberts nee Jones. She was born in Bagillt and both sides of her family have been in and around Bagillt for quite a few generations. Her parents were Hugh Jones and Sarah Davies. Hugh's father was the Richard Jones I am seeking, his father being Samuel Jones. Sarah Jones nee Davies's father was Thomas Davies - but it doesn't sound as if you have any Davieses so I won't bore you with them.
Anyway, here's a bit of info from my database (apologies as the formatting has gone to pot) do you recognise the family at all?? The Price connection is through Hugh Joneses sister Eleanor (see 1871 census below) marrying a Thomas Price one of their granddaughters (a Lewis) still lives in Bagillt.
1871 Census - Bagillt, Flintshire, Wales - RG10/5641/69/18
Richard JONES H 43 M Engine Driver Holywell, Flint
MargaretJONES W 38 M Holywell, Flint
Eleanor JONES D 11 - Scholar Holywell, Flint
Samuel JONES S 9 - Scholar Holywell, Flint
Hugh JONES S 7 - Scholar Bagillt, Flint
Mary JONES D 2 - - Bagillt, Flint
LlewelynJONES S 11m - - Bagillt, Flint
MARRIAGE:1890
JONES Hugh DAVIES Sarah Holywell, Civil Marriage Flintshire HOL/20/E81
Marriage cerificate:
30 July 1890
Hugh Jones 26 yrs B Assayer Bootgate Cottage,Bagillt
Father: Richard Jones Engineer
Sarah Davies 26 yrs S - Coetia Llwyd Farm
Father: Thomas Davies Farmer Bagillt Road, Holywell
Witnesses: Samuel Jones (likely to be his older brother); Margaret Ellen Davies (likely to Sarah's younger sister)
Entry No. 81 Ebenezer, Walwen, Bagillt in the District of Holywell.
1891 Census - 1 Sea View Cottage, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - RG12/4605/122/19
Hugh JONES H 27 M Lead Assayer Bagillt, Flint
Sarah JONES W 27 M - Birkenhead, Cheshire
* all speak Welsh only
1901Census - River View, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - RG13/5210/65/14
Hugh JONES H 34 W Weigher Bagillt,
Marguarite JONES D 9 - Bagillt,
Thomas Wesley JONES S 8 - Bagillt,
Rhydwen JONES S 4 - Bagillt,
Ann JONES Sis 22 U Housekeeper Bagillt,
* all speak both, except for Rhydwen - Welsh only
(Marguerite had other brothers: Richard Neville and Tecwyn. Dick Neville's son farmed at Fishpool Farm in Bagillt until about 10 years ago).
Does any of this tie in with your Joneses/Prices etc?
Ninian
formerly of Flintshire,
now in S Wales
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The IGI in an entry extracted from the local Parish Registers,lists the Christening of a Richard Jones on the 17th of August 1828,to Parents Samuel and Grace Jones.As far as my own Families from Bagillt,I have an Eleanor Jones born to Parents Edward and Hannah Jones of Bagillt in 1815.She married an Isaac Evans at Holywell in 1836.I have made very little progress though with my wider Jones family from Bagillt.Again another line which I have made virtually no progress with is that of a Jane Price who married a Thomas Hughes of Bagillt at Holywell in c 1768.I do have both Roberts and Davies Families but they are from Flint.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Many thanks for the info on Richard's baptism - its definately him. His parents were indeed Samuel Jones(from Holywell) and Grace (from Llanrwst). Now I know that Richard was baptised there I think it's pretty likely that I'll find others of the family in the Holywell parish records and a trip to Hawarden Registry Office will definately be a trip worth making in the summer.
Re your Joneses/Davieses/Robertses. I'm sure there is no connection between our Davieses and Robertses as my Davieses are Bagillt and my Robertses are Merioneth - but your Eleanor is interesting.
I haven't yet got far enough back to check if my line has an Eleanor born in 1815 but there are quite a few Eleanors in my Jones line (something of a family name in fact) - which could well indicate that there just may be a connection. Both my Richard Jones and his father Samuel Jones had daughters that they named Eleanor. I haven't got any further back than Samuel yet - but I just wonder if it is possible that Samuel's parents were your Edward and Hannah Jones - you don't happen to know if Eleanor had an elder brother called Samuel born 1802ish? I know it's a bit of a long shot - but you never know ........
Ninian
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Other possible Baptisms of children born to Samuel and Grace on the IGI;
Mary,Baptised 25.01.1830
Llewelyn,Baptised 20.04.1834.
Eleanor,Baptised 28.02.1837.
These three were Baptised at Chester Road Holywell,Wesleyan Methodist,to Parents named Samuel Jones and Grace Williams.
The following two are also listed as children of Samuel and Grace Jones,and they were Baptised at St Mary's Bagillt;
Caroline,Baptised 25.03.1842.
Edward,Baptised 25.07.1847.
As afr as Samuel Jones's Baptism,which may be around 1805,I have a look when I next go to the Clwyd FHS Resource Centre.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Thank you very much for these - they tie in beautifully with my census info:
1841 Census - March Cottages, Bagillt fawr, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - HO107/1413/1/69/22
Forename Surname Age Occupation Born in County?
Samuel JONES 35 M Lab Yes
Grace JONES 35 - Yes
Richard JONES 18(13) - Yes
Mary JONES 11 - Yes
Elizabeth JONES 9 - Yes
Llewelyn JONES 7 - Yes
Eleanor JONES 4 - Yes
Sarah JONES 2 - Yes
trans as JUNCO
1851 Census - Walwen, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - HO107/2500/315/7
Samuel JONES H 49 M Engineer Holywell, Flint
Grace JONES W 45 M Engineer’s Wife Llanrwst,
Richard JONES S 22 U Engineer Holywell, Flint
Ellen JONES D 18 U ? at Home Holywell, Flint
LlewelynJONES S 16 - Son Holywell, Flint
Sarah JONES D 11 - Scholar Holywell, Flint
Robert JONES S 6 - Scholar Holywell, Flint
Edward JONES S 3 - - Holywell, Flint
1871 Bryn Cellin(?), Greenfield, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales - RG10/5641/39/10
Surname Age Status Occupation Born
Samuel JONES H 69 M Engine Driver Holywell,
Grace JONES W 65 M Llanrwst,
LlewelynJONES S 37 U Engine Driver Holywell,
Robert JONES S 25 Widower Bricklayer Holywell,
Edward JONES S 23 U Engine Driver Holywell,
Caroline JONES D 19 U ?Folder in printing office Holywell,
ElizabethJONES Niece 3 - Holywell,
Mary, Llewellyn, Eleanor and Edward are all there and although there is a Caroline she was younger than the Caroline baptised in 1847 - a strong possibility must be that the original Caroline died before the 1851 census and a later daughter was named Caroline.
Also interesting that some were baptised in the Wesleyan Methodist chapel and some in church - the family from the next generation on were all Wesleyans.
I didn't know that Grace was called Williams - so now I have her maiden name I can start trying to find her in Llanrwst. I'm very grateful.
Just one other thing - I've just had a look at the Clwyd Family Hist site - it must be very handy for you but do you think it would be worth my while joining? I'm not likely to be able to get to their meetings or probably not even to the Centre - but would there be any advantages in joining do you think? I know it's only £10 to join but I've only just started on my family history and it's proving quite expensive already.
Ninian
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As far as the Clwyd FHS is concerned,although as you say you may not be able to get to the Resource Centre,there is a Quarterly Journal of the Soociety sent to all members,it is called Hel Achau.You are thus able to list queries and or answer them from and to other members.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Thanks. I'll seriously think about joining. And thanks too for your offer to look up Samuel's baptism probably 1802/3 I imagine.
I will look out for your Eleanor too - I s'pose I would be able to contact you via Rootschat
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Although I will post to this thread when I find Samuel's Baptism,you have two ways in which to contact me via this Site;By Personal Message,or by clicking on the Email symbol alongside my name.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Oh, right - I didn't know that. I must find time to find out more about Rootschat - I've just had a quick explore and added a few bits to my profile (Crest etc) which I didn't know I could do til now!!
I might be back troubling you again sooner than you think, as I'm having no success finding the info you got off IGI. I've given up on it for tonight but will try again tomorrow, but if I get really stuck and can't find it, I might have to get back to you for a few hints.
Anyway many thanks for all your help - am feeling quite encouraged that I can get further with my Jones. I will let you know if I find an Eleanor who might be yours - but it probably won't be in the very near future......
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William, re the Joneses of Bagillt.
Do you know if Deborah Jones, who married Thomas Giles of Greenfield in 1828, is part of your family?
I believe they are my ggg-grandparents
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Well Bustergut,I wished you'd have posted this last night,as I was looking at the Holywell Parish Registers this afternoon!
Ninian I looked for the Baptism of your Samuel Jones in the Holywell Parish Registers,as transcribed by Clwyd FHS,at their Resource Centre.I found two around the time we were looking,the first one is for a Samuel Jones Baptised July11 1802,to Parents Robert and Mary Jones.The second one is also to Parents Robert and Mary Jones!this Baptism took place on the 7th of February 1803.No abode was indicated for the Parents in either case.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Oh, gosh. Well we can probably say with certainty that Richard's parents were Robert and Mary Jones!!!!
I think I shall not worry for the moment that there were in Holywell 2 sets of Robert and Mary Joneses each having a son Samuel.
Even with a name like Jones this must be pretty unusual I guess??
I'm very grateful for this, many thanks.
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Sorry, I forgot to ask - did you find Samuel's baptism in the Holywell Parish Church records or was he in nonconformist records? I assume, probably, the former?
P.S. I imagine the baptism of July 1802 is more likely than the 1803 but I've put both down in my records
Ninian
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Yes Ninian,I found the Baptisms to have taken place at Holywell St James Parish Church.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Many thanks
Ninian
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Been reading your posts, Roberts in flint? Could that be any relation to Elias Roberts? Elias is from bagillt street in 1859 which has now changed to bagillt road from what ive found out on facebook.
Bagillt is in flintshire wales so presuming the street will be to.
He married a Elizabeth Leigh in 1856, William Roberts is Elias son, He was born in wales but appeared to leave aged 10 (1870) and moved to Lancashire.
I asked my dad about this and he said they probably moved for work, but i'm not sure about that as the cotton mills was in lancashire and wales wasnt they?
Ive been researching my family tree for over 10 years on n off, currently now trying to buy any evidence i can to back up what ancestry tells me, hence buying certificates, unfortunately tho they tend to only go back to 1837, So Elias is just before that time as we believe he was born 1832 and Elizabeth Leigh in 1835
Elias and Elizabeth information is 100% correct as I have williams birth certificate which shows there details x
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Hi Michelle
My taid went from bagillt to Lancashire to work and met my grandmother there and married in Rochdale before moving back to bagillt so I think your dad could be right as my taids brothers done the same
Wendy