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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: AmandaP on Tuesday 01 May 07 03:37 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for descendants of John Gabb and his wife Hester Walkley (the first Gabbs to settle in NSW) who came to Australia in 1838 on board the ship the Layton from Stonehouse, Gloucestershire in England. In particular I'm looking for photos of the early Gabbs. John and Hester's three (surviving to adulthood) children were William (my great great grandfather) 8/4/1828-28/8/1906 (married 1. Elizabeth Bentley, 2. Ann Green), Charles 3/12/1831-1923 (married Ann Cotrell) and Ann 1840-1888 (married James Jordan).
Please note, I'm not looking for records of the Gabb family, NSW BDM has what I need, I'm looking for living relatives who might have some information to help paint the story.
Please feel free to send me a PM.
Amanda :)
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hi amanda i found a man researching John Gabb and it looks like his family tree matches yours please get in touch
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Correcting my original post: Ann Gabb did not die in 1888, I was originally provided incorrect information. I have since obtained her death certificate, she died 4th April 1923 under the name Annie Chapman. She married three times although I cannot find a record for her second marriage. Her second husband’s surname was Windaybank, her third husband was George Chapman.
I am now interested in finding the correct death record for her first husband James Jordan, her marriage record to Windaybank, and what happened to her daughter Emma Jordan.
Please note: it has been 14.5 years the original post.
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You may already have this:
First name(s) George
Last name Chapman
Marriage year 1889
Registration year 1889
Registration district Waterloo
State New South Wales
Country Australia
Spouse's first name(s) Annie
spouse's last name Windybank
Registration number 3241
Volume reference -
Cross reference -
Record set New South Wales Marriages 1788-1945
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
State New South Wales
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Australasia, Australia
If you don't at least you know where to check…
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James Jordan marriage to Ann Gabb:
First name(s) James
Last name Jordan
Denomination -
Marriage year 1858
Registration year 1858
Registration district Concord
State New South Wales
Country Australia
Spouse's first name(s) Ann
Spouse's last name Gabb
Registration number 1116
Volume reference -
Marriage year 1858
Cross reference -
Record set New South Wales Marriages 1788-1945
Registration district Concord
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Australasia, Australia
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Thank you, yes I have that information. It’s her second marriage to Windaybank that I’m looking for.
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Hi there,
Re that second marriage for Ann.
Did she have children born in NSW/Victoria/Qld by that marriage? if so, have you considering checking on their birth registration/s as to what information is recorded there about that marriage - when, where, her then age etc...
ADD Windaybanks/Windybanks/Windebanks/Windibank/Wyndybanks/ etc
JM
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According to her death certificate, she only had children to her first marriage, only two lived and she outlived both of them. This lines up with the NSW birth records. I have only found where one of her children ended up. We have searched other states, and overseas where records are available online as we had considered that she and her first husband might have left NSW and that she found her second husband elsewhere. I expect that her second husband might have passed away before she returned to NSW if she had been outside of NSW as her nephew (my great grandfather’s brother) who was the informant did not know her second husband’s first name.
I have tried all those name variants and more.
Additionally, we have searched Trove, the state archives, the state library and numerous online resources for clues. So far no luck, all leads we have followed have turned out to be someone else.
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That's a dilemma and the NSW BDM does have flaws in their online indexes and sadly in their actual holdings, particularly for the mid to late 1800s for their civil marriage registrations. Her death cert should have a response to the question 'how long in the colonies' but you mention the informant was her nephew, so not a close family member from her own generation.
Do you know if she was Sydney based or was she further afield - far western NSW or Central western NSW - I have a fair collection of family and local history archival material for those regions of NSW from say 1820s to WWI. I will pop GABB on my RChat list (it has around 30 surnames on it) for whenever I am going through that material to re-research some aspect of my past efforts.
Fingers crossed, but no promises :)
JM
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Looking for the children of Ann and James JORDAN on NSW BMD - the only children that I can see registered between 1855 and 1889 with surname JORDAN and parents' names James and Ann* are registered at Berrima. I can't see a registration for Emma JORDAN at all.
Have you considered that perhaps Ann was not legally married to Mr Windaybanks/Windybanks/Windebanks/Windibank/Wyndybanks ?
Do you have any other information about James JORDAN - his origins/parents etc?
Judith
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1880s - 1890s or thereabouts ... a dairyman out near Randwick - Barker St ...
Try the Sands directories ...
G WINDEBANKS, 10 Barker St, dairyman.
Plus consider using the wildcard options at NSW BDM online. For example W*bank* could give you all with surname commencing with W and with 'bank' as part of the rest of the surname ... :)
Sands : free at https://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/history-archive-collections/archives
Also, remember it was NOT compulsory to enrol to vote until 1920s or later, and that females first became eligible to enrol in NSW for the 1902 roll (ie after the referendum).
JM
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That's a dilemma and the NSW BDM does have flaws in their online indexes and sadly in their actual holdings, particularly for the mid to late 1800s for their civil marriage registrations. Her death cert should have a response to the question 'how long in the colonies' but you mention the informant was her nephew, so not a close family member from her own generation.
Do you know if she was Sydney based or was she further afield - far western NSW or Central western NSW - I have a fair collection of family and local history archival material for those regions of NSW from say 1820s to WWI. I will pop GABB on my RChat list (it has around 30 surnames on it) for whenever I am going through that material to re-research some aspect of my past efforts.
Fingers crossed, but no promises :)
JM
Thanks, Ann was born in Richlands, NSW Australia, she was the youngest and the only one of her siblings to be born here. Her siblings and parents were from Gloucestershire. Her youngest daughter Hester/Esther Ann Jordan was born in Berrima in 1864. Sometime between 1864 and 1889 her first husband James Jordan, then her second husband “Windaybank” must have passed away as she married her third husband George Chapman on 25/7/1889 in Botany. Botany is the area Ann’s extended family were living, however both her and George were both noted as living in Appin.
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1880s - 1890s or thereabouts ... a dairyman out near Randwick - Barker St ...
Try the Sands directories ...
G WINDEBANKS, 10 Barker St, dairyman.
Plus consider using the wildcard options at NSW BDM online. For example W*bank* could give you all with surname commencing with W and with 'bank' as part of the rest of the surname ... :)
Sands : free at https://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/history-archive-collections/archives
Also, remember it was NOT compulsory to enrol to vote until 1920s or later, and that females first became eligible to enrol in NSW for the 1902 roll (ie after the referendum).
JM
Thank you but we have already tried the “*” with many variants including ‘Wind*’ and ‘Ann*’ on BDM. It’s starting to look like James Jordan passed away outside of NSW and that Ann also married Windaybank elsewhere. We have not found anything useful in the Sands directory at this stage. There was a couple Annie and William Windaybank during the period inquestion, but we have already established that this Annie is not our’s. The electoral roll will not help as she our Ann had married George Chapman in 1889 and this is not the period we require answers for.
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Looking for the children of Ann and James JORDAN on NSW BMD - the only children that I can see registered between 1855 and 1889 with surname JORDAN and parents' names James and Ann* are registered at Berrima. I can't see a registration for Emma JORDAN at all.
Have you considered that perhaps Ann was not legally married to Mr Windaybanks/Windybanks/Windebanks/Windibank/Wyndybanks ?
Do you have any other information about James JORDAN - his origins/parents etc?
Judith
Thanks but Emma, born 1/2/1859 was the eldest child and was registered as “Jordon”, in St George NSW, prior to James and Ann moving to Berrima. Out of the children I am searching for, I am searching for death and possible marriage for Emma only. I am not searching for her other siblings. We have full birth/marriage/death for her only other sibling who survived infancy.
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Have already typed these up so will post any, although I know you have them
These all have parents James, Ann and registered in Berrima
5206/1860 JORDAN (MALE). Died, reg Berrima 3157/1860
5241/1862 JORDAN Mary A. Died, reg Berrima 2686/1862
5805/1864 JORDAN Hester A -
Do you know anything of the background of James Jordan? When did Hester die/marry?
Judith
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Ann GABB born 1840, Richlands (I think this would be a locality near Crookwell NSW), married 1858 NSW, and was a mother by 1860, sadly two infants succumbed before Hester JORDAN was born 8 August 1864.
May I ask about that marriage registration ...
What denomination, which clergyman, and what is the relationship recorded on that record for the person noted as giving permission for a minor to marry. Also what names of the witnesses - perhaps a deep background search for them may help. It may well be that there are some blanks on the m.c. - not at all unusual for the era, but assuming the celebrant was a clergyman, then his parish register should have all the elusive details about the bride, the groom, their respective parents... Always useful info to use to confirm/validate the known knowns. :)
JM
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Marriage
707/1877
MCCORG, ARCHIBALD
JORDAN, EMMA
SYDNEY
Death
766/1918
MCCOIG, EMMA
Father: JORDAN
Mother: ANNIE
REDFERN
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15770113
It seems more likely that James JORDAN went walkabout and Annie was not free to marry Mr W. She went back to using the surname in 1893 when Hester's husband Joseph GREENFIELD left her holding the baby. This time it is WEINBANK.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/252042614
What are the names of James JORDAN's parents?
Debra :)
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Brilliant finds, Debra
I would agree that it's very possible that Ann and Mr W were not legally married.
So sad - Hester/Esther died on the day her child was born
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111024481
GREENFIELD— June 22, 1883. Esther Ann, beloved wife of Joseph Greenfield, at Wollongong. May she rest in peace.
Anglican Parish registers show the baptism of baby Joseph Greenfield on 23 June 1883 and Esther's burial the same day, both at Wollongong.
Judith
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Marriage
707/1877
MCCORG, ARCHIBALD
JORDAN, EMMA
SYDNEY
Death
766/1918
MCCOIG, EMMA
Father: JORDAN
Mother: ANNIE
REDFERN
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15770113
It seems more likely that James JORDAN went walkabout and Annie was not free to marry Mr W. She went back to using the surname in 1893 when Hester's husband Joseph GREENFIELD left her holding the baby. This time it is WEINBANK.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/252042614
What are the names of James JORDAN's parents?
Debra :)
Thank you, yes, I have that information regarding Annie taking out the warrant against Joseph Greenfield for abandoning her 15 year old grandson Joseph Jnr. Her daughter Hester/Esther in fact had died from childbirth with her only child. By the time of the warrant Joseph had a new family by then. Interestingly and sadly, there was no mention of Joseph Jnr in Snr’s obituary but all his other children to his second wife were listed. The poor boy died 3 days after his 21st birthday.
Thanks for the suggestion with Emma, I will investigate that further.