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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: .k. on Monday 30 April 07 03:16 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for : Ann Prosser Born about 1827/1828 in Breconshire.
Her father :Thomas Prosser
Her mother: Jane Williams.
They were possilbly farmers. and mentioned on the Llangasty Talyllyn census.
I am trying to fill out their backgrounds in particular Thomas and Jane's parents.
Also Jeffrey Jeffreys: born 1820 and Christened 5 Nov 1820 in Llandeilor-fan Brecon.
I know his father was William Jeffreys and his mother was Syble, but I know nothing else about them.
any help would be appreciated.
regards
S.k.
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Hi
have you found them on 1841 census?
cheers cardiff
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Hi Cardiff,
no I am afraid I have been unable, so far to find anything about Jeffrey Jeffreys senior and wife Syble. they are a bit of an enigma.
regards
s.k.
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Hello again,
Have you received the marriage certificate yet to confirm Jeffrey's occupation and name and occupation of his father?
There is no Jeffrey Jeffreys showing on the 1841 census of Wales that fits with a baptism in 1820 and certainly no Sybil Jeffreys or variant. This baptism from the IGI -do you know for sure that is his baptism or have you just assumed it is because it might be the right county? The problem with relying on the IGI in Wales is that most of the records are for the established church (Church of England) whereas the majority of the population were non-conformist. Marriages had to be performed in the established church at this time, but baptisms didn't so there are many, many baptisms that don't appear on the IGI.
If Jeffrey's father was also called Jeffrey, there is the Jeffrey already posted on the other thread who could be his father. There is also, at a push, this Jeffrey in Llangadog, Carmarthenshire - not too far from Llandeilo'r Fan
Penybont, HO107/1386/13 folio 28 pg 6
Jeffrey Jeffreys 70 farmer
Mary 65
both born in county
see also
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,228816.new.html#new
A better bet for parish records is the County Record Office
http://www.powys.gov.uk/index.php?id=647&L=0&
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Dear Osprey
First I have to issue an apology.
Jeffrey Jeffrey's father was called William, not Jeffrey. Somebody managed to find Jeffreys death certificate. Which has his fathers name, his own marriage to Anne Prosser in Brecknock Wales in 1846 and the names of her parents. it has Jeffreys age, date and place of death. jane was born in Wales in either 1846 or 1847, her brother Thomas was born in Vic in 1852, so they would have immagrated within that time span.
regards s.k.
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Unfortunately, I can't help you much with your inquiry, but was wondering if you could help me with an inquiry of mine regarding the PROSSER surname (I don't see it around too often).
Do you know anything of a Helen PROSSER? She was the first wife of my gg grandfather, Charles Joseph (de) BELIN. They married in 1815 in the Parish of Marylebone, and had a daughter Julia BELIN 1816 in Lyons, France. Charles was a Reverend, and his second marriage was in 1825, therefore it is presumed Helen PROSSER died between 1816 and 1825?
I do not know of any other details of her, do you?
Regards
Les
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Hi Les,
have you posted a query on the London board? I doubt you'd get much local expertise on the Breconshire board!
;)
Hi s.k.
thanks for the apology. I can understand the temptation to take details from the IGI but it needs to be resisted until you have documented what you have found so far. There's no Jeffrey Jeffrey with father William on the 1841 census in Wales. There are a few possibles but without knowing his age or occupation, I can't guess. You need to get his marriage certificate - I gave you the details on the other post now linked to this one. That will confirm his father, but also give occupations for both of them and with luck an age for Jeffrey.Even if we can't find the two of them together, we might find them separately. You say you have Jeffrey's age from his death cert, but haven't given it. You need to share the info for us to help you.
:)
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For the sake of completeness, I've found the badly mistranscribed Sybil, wife or Richard from the IGI entry.
1841 Maesmyrddin, Ysclydach, Llywel HO107/1367/12 folio 13 pg 10
Richard Jeffreys 45
Sibyl 50
Gwen 5
Hannah Davies 10
all born in county
daughter Sarah shows up as a female servant in Llandeilo'r Fan and son David an ag lab in Maescar, Devynock. Can't spot other siblings.
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Hi Osprey
Thanks so much with your help so far. No, I haven't got the marriage certificate just yet, the reason being I don't have a credit card. So I am trying to dig around for a such information as I and everyone else can find. Then I will try to apply for one by post( If I can ). Thanks for the Information on Sybil and gang. Though I think it may be from a different family.
I had no idea that Mums side of the family were predominantly Welsh.
Jeffrey Jeffrey died age 53 in 1884 at Melbourne hospital Victoria
regards
S.k.
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Hi Les de B
Sorry I don't think I can Help. I have been checking through my files but our Prossers seem to be completely unrelated. You could perhaps try the family search website.
Good Luck with your search (It becomes addictive)
regards
S.k.
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Hi Les,
have you posted a query on the London board? I doubt you'd get much local expertise on the Breconshire board!
;)
No, haven't posted it yet. It was just that I was reading the Daily Posts, and saw the surname PROSSER. I thought I would give it a go just in case it was related. One never knows, you can "never leave a stone unturned" with family researching!
Les
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Hi Les de B
Sorry I don't think I can Help. I have been checking through my files but our Prossers seem to be completely unrelated. You could perhaps try the family search website.
Good Luck with your search (It becomes addictive)
regards
S.k.
S.K.
Not a problem. I wasn't very confident, however, I couldn't let the possibility pass by. "Searching becomes addictive"? - so that's what has happened to the last 10 years of my life!
Regards
Les
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... Jeffrey Jeffrey died age 53 in 1884 at Melbourne hospital Victoria ...
If Jeffrey JEFFREYS died at the age of 53 in 1884, that would make his date of birth approximately 1831. But you asked RootsChatters to search for a Jeffrey JEFFREYS born in 1820 ???
However, from information on another thread about these same people at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,228816
it seems that Jeffrey JEFFREYS married in 1846 which throws the death age into doubt.
As osprey has recommended several times, purchase of the marriage certificate of Jeffrey JEFFREYS and Ann PROSSER should assist you.
Re purchasing a marriage certificate - it is certainly possible to apply for a GRO certificate by post and without using a credit card.
If you go to the GRO site at:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
you will find information about applying for a certificate by post and methods of payment.
Another - and perhaps easier - method would be to use the certificate ordering service offered by the Genealogical Society of Victoria (payment to them can be in Australian currency and it is not necessary to be a member). See:
http://www.gsv.org.au/Bookshop/services.htm
The GSV is situated at Level B1 257 Collins Street, Melbourne (between Swanston and Elizabeth streets).
JAP
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Hi s.k.,
I can understand not wanting to buy unnecessary certificates, especially if you're used to the Australian system where some of the info appears to be available in the index, but there are times when you can't get any further without a certificate or two. This is one of those times.
Your couple left the UK before the 1851 census which is the first one to give places of birth and relationships within the household. They also married between the 1841 and 1851, so your only way of confirming their fathers is to buy the marriage cert. It would also give a (vague) address for each of them and Jeffrey's occupation. If you don't get the cert, you could end up following the wrong family line and waste time and effort.
Another good thing about the marriage cert is that the couple themselves gave the info. Anne died young, so the info on Jeffrey's death cert was probably provided by one of their children and could be inaccurate. The age is very unlikely to be correct because, as JAP pointed out above, that would have meant him marrying at 15 and emigrating before he was 20. The father's name might also be wrong. The couple's children might never have known their grandparents. Also, there is no Jeffrey Jeffrey of that age on the 1841 census of Wales. There are at least 3 who are a few years older, but 2 of them are not living with family. It was quite common for children of 10 or so to be working as ag labs or farm servants away from home at that period.
So without more concrete info from a cert, you've hit a brick wall.
:-\
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Hi Jap and Osprey
Thanks for the great information, and your help. Thanks jap for the information
about the Genealogical Society. I had no idea you could apply for the Uk. certificates through them.
regards
s.k.
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Dear S.K.
I notice that you have Mainwaring in your family too. Were they from Breconshire? I ask because I have a Samuel Mainwaring, poor law union governor of Crickhowell in my tree.
Diana
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Hi Diana
Ann Prosser did possibly come from Breconshire, She was most defiantly christened on 5 june 1828 at St Marys tabernacle-welsh Wesleyan, in Brecon. she died 1867. her father was Thomas Prosser and her mother was Jane Williams. Unfortunately this Is pretty well all the Info I have. Except for what has already been displayed on rootschat.
Good Luck.
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'defiantly christened'? Were there people trying to stop it happening then? Love the typo!
:D ;D
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Ann Prosser ..... was ..... christened on 5 june 1828 at St Marys tabernacle-welsh Wesleyan, in Brecon. she died 1867. her father was Thomas Prosser and her mother was Jane Williams. Unfortunately this Is pretty well all the Info I have.
Is this the current situation or have there been any further developments in the interim?
I think I've traced the relevant Jane PROSSER from 1841 - 1881, when she is recorded a widow at RG11 piece 5462 folio 23 page 10. However, I think the children recorded with her are grand-daughters (not nieces) born at Talyllyn of the marriage between Mary PROSSER and Thomas PRICE [see 1871 schedule RG10 piece 5582 folio 38 page 7].
For some reason I cannot find Llangasty Talyllyn via FindMyPast's search engine for 1881 addresses, but I fear the children's father, and possibly mother, may have succumbed to the smallpox epidemic that claimed some of the HUGHES family of Allt, Llangasty Talyllyn, in the early-1870s.
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I'm not sure which address you are looking for,but there is a section "Other Establishments" Llangasty-Tal-y-Llyn under Brecknock Registration District in 1881.
Regards
Roger
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Many thanks, Roger, for your prompt assistance. I reported these faults in their transcriptions to FindMyPast at 5.39 pm last evening but I've yet to hear back:
Can you please explain why Cathedine has been added to the address for the 1891 Census schedules for Llangasty Talyllyn in Brecknockshire, Wales? It is an entire parish in its own right. Whatever permutation I use I cannot locate it at all in an address search for 1881 - is it missing that year or is there an error in transcription?
I had tried every permutation I could think of in the residence slot for a person search and also for the address search, but they did not work for either. FindMyPast have not used Llangasty Talyllyn as freestanding words and yet that is what is clearly shown on every 1881 schedule in the Civil Parish slot. ::)
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I don't know if you have resolved your difficulty yet,but precision of entry is key,including spacing and/or hyphens.Have you tried the exact phrase
Llangasty-Tal-y-Llyn
in the Civil Parish slot?
Regards
Roger
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Sorry, Roger, for not making it clear that my thanks were for enabling me to find the schedules.
FindMyPast insist their transcriptions are true representations of the schedules but I find they are particularly inaccurate when it comes to the Welsh returns and, as you'll appreciate, a hyphen in the wrong place leads to a lot of frustration, particularly when the entry in this instance should read Llangasty Talyllyn!
Regards.
dee-jay