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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Alpha on Saturday 28 April 07 08:53 BST (UK)
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In the 1800’s my great-great-grandfather, Charles Massey, squashed his family history into half a page. In so doing he left out several names, dates and places, and got others wrong! ! ! ! So, I am trying to pick up the pieces! If anyone can shed any light on the following I would be so grateful:
(Approximately mid-1700’s)
“My Mother’s grandfather on the mother’s side was Mr Richard Warren, next heir at law to the property of Sir John Warren. He married a Miss Wetnall of the Cheshire family – Sir John Warren’s sister married Lord Buckley.
Mr Richard Warren, next heir, and related to Sir John Warren, ran away with his wife when a girl, from a Boarding School, and marrying contrary to the wishes of Sir John Warren, he would not leave him the property, on account of his marrying beneath himself, although she was of excellent family in Cheshire.”
(Background)
Charles Massey’s mother was Elizabeth Morris, and her mother was Elizabeth Warren (daughter of the above Richard), who married Thomas Morris of Ribbesford, Worcs at St Peter Cornhill, London in March 1782. They had two sons and Elizabeth, and then Thomas died. His widow married Robert Meek, and had three more sons. I don’t have birth and death dates or places for Elizabeth Warren/Morris/Meek
Thank you to anyone who can help me,
Alpha.
Searching for:
Cooke: Dublin, London & Madras
Felton: Cowbridge, Glamorgan
Fox: Chatham & Rochester, Kent
Hobbs: Hambleden, Bucks
Massey: Hodnet, Shropshire
Murray: Taunton, Somerset
Partridge: Lapford & Nymet Rowland, Devon
and the elusive Anthony Andrew Thornton
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Alpha, this probably isn't too helpful, but there are some online references to the Warrens of Poynton who were baronets - I can't see a Sir John in the references, but in case they tie up here goes
http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/history/old-families6a.html
http://www.poyntonweb.co.uk/visitorscentre/poynton_family_history.htm
and a link for the 1580 visitation on Cheshire
http://www.scfhs.org.uk/scfhs/visitations/BookVC1580/c001.htm
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Thank you so much for your help, mshrsh. It was more helpful than you realised as the Cheshire visitations website put me on to more possible ancestors. And now I know that Miss Warren married Lord Bulkley, not Buckley. I will have to do some more investigations tomorrow (Thursday New Zealand time) to see if I can find out if those Warrens are also "mine", or just one of gt-gt-grandfather's red herrings.
Cheers,
Alpha
Searching for:
Cooke: Dublin, London & Madras
Felton: Cowbridge, Glamorgan
Fox: Chatham & Rochester, Kent
Hobbs: Hambleden, Bucks
Massey: Hodnet, Shropshire
Murray: Taunton, Somerset
Partridge: Lapford & Nymet Rowland, Devon
and the elusive Anthony Andrew Thornton
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Alpha - glad you found it of use.
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Dear Sir,
I am currently researching my family tree of the Partridges of Nymet Rowland and Lapford,and i noticed you are looking for them too.
What branch are you looking at?
Regards
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Hiya Alpha....The reason you can`t find her is because she wasn`t christened ELIZABETH
www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb the Cheshire Parish Records Database site
BETTY Warren babtised 29th february 1756 in the Parish town of Poynton
father Richard Warren
Mother Susannah
abode Worth
occ Husbandman
so she was christened BETTY....Not Elizabeth.......I presume this is your Elizabeth Warren ??...if not , apologies..if it is here`s Richards marriage
Richard Warren to Susannah Comb 9th October 1752 in Prestbury , Cheshire ...extracted record
Fingers crossed I am right...bright red face if I`m wrong ...lol :-[
allan :)
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I think there was some wishful thinking going on. When you put forward the correct spelling Bulkeley, that is the clue as far as I'm concerned. In Earwaker
(available on line?)the pedigree gives "Elizabeth Harriet Warren(only daughter and heiress) born April 7 1759. Marr at St George's, Hanover Square, London. 26 April 1777. Died 23 Feb., 1826 at Englefield Green, co Berks"
So she was the only daughter of "Sir George Warren of Poynton and Stockport, Knight of the Bath, so created 26 May, 1761. Born c. 1733. M.P. for Lancaster. Died 31 Aug., 1801 at (sic) 67. Bur. at Stockport.
Elizabeth Harriet Warren married; "Thomas James Bulkeley, Seventh Viscount Bulkeley. Born 12 De., 1752. By Royal Licence, 20 Sept 1802. Both he and his wife took the name Warren before that of Bulkeley. Died suddenely, 3 June 1822, SP.
Look up the Warren Bulkeley Charity - still administered here in Poynton. Also try Dr Craig Thornber's website. Try appropriate section in 'Poynton - A Coalmining Village.
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Hello Abbey Road
My Partridge ancestors are:
Roger Partridge d. 1782 m Tryphena Kelland
bought Nymet Rowland Barton in 1757
James Partridge 1741-1805 m Susannah Wreford c 1748-1799
Chn: James (Nymet Rowland willed to him) John (see below) Roger William Ann Susannah Tryphena Samuel Silvanus
John Partridge (see above) 1766-1853 m Susannah Moon 1771 - 1853/4
Chn: James Frances John Silvanus (see below) 1805-1874, inherited Nymet Rowland, Maria Fanny
Silvanus Partridge (see above) m Elizabeth Mortimer 1806-1867
Chn: John (inherited Nymet Rowland) Silvanus (emigrated to NZ) Louisa James (died in train accident with his mother) William 1846-1888 m Katherine Massey and emigrated to NZ (honeymoon voyage).
If any of these tie in with your family please pm me.
Elizabeth G.
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Thank you kimhulme. Yes, i quickly realised that the Warren Bulkleys were not mine, but they were interesting to read about. My Elizabeth Warren's ancestry remains a mystery.
Elizabeth G
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better late than never !!!!!!
But i do tie in with the Partridges you mentioned on your post sunday 06 june 10
There are two local Partridge families that married each other c1817 i believe they could have been cousins.
I am doing the family history of both branches as well as the Partridges of Wishanger Glouscestershire of whom i believe they are descended from.
Where do you fit into the tree?
Regards,
Robert
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Probably entirely irrelevant; but in case you're not aware, apart from "Warren Street" in Stockport a popular and prominent hostelry used to be the Warren Bulkeley pub (Corner of Warren Street and Bridge Street). Demolished and re-built as a Laura Ashley shop, the original facade was reconstructed on the side elevation. Unfortunately street view doesn't extend to you being able to see it on line.
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Searching for a Morris connection -Elizabeth Morris sister to Samuel Cheeke Morris. Would this be the same person as your Elizabeth Morris?
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Yes, "my" Elizabeth was the sister of Samuel Cheeke Morris.
Cheers,
Alpha
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We have only very sketchy information on the Morris family. My 2nd great grandfather - George Morris - arrived in the US just in time to join the Union army during the Civil War. He married in 1866 and fathered a son - William Henry and died shortly after. The only clue we have to his English roots is the bible in his possession which was handed down from John Skitt who signed the inside cover with his name and Longnor Hall. This was recently traced to John Skitt's will located in the UK National Archives and led me to a list of John Skitt's relations: Morris, Loxdale and others - although no Massey's were on the list. We think that Samuel Cheek Morris may have been an uncle to George. If any of this is a match for your family, I would love to share information!
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Hello
I can't help you very much as the name Skitt means nothing to me. However, I do know that Richard Warren married Ann Loxdale, 16 Dec 1759 at St Mary, Stafford, England and they had five children, none of them called Elizabeth.
But, Elizabeth Warren knew Joseph Loxdale Warren. She (possibly eloped with and) married Thomas Morris of Ribbesford, Worc on 2 Mar 1782 at St Peter Cornhill, London. He was the son of Mary Cheeke and Thomas Morris, and he was christened 23 Apr 1762. Apparently in the Royal Navy he was buried in a garden at Port Antonio (Jamaica?). Before that they had three children: Samuel Cheeke (chr 23 Feb 1783 - 25 Jan 1839) who married Sarah and had one son Samuel (maybe also some daughters),
Elizabeth (bpt 29 June 1785 - 31 Dec 1838) who married John Massey, and
Joseph (chr 7 Jan 1787 - ??)
Elizabeth Warren/Morris married secondly Robert Meek on 15 Dec 1791 and had three more sons.
Samuel Cheeke Morris inherited the property of his grandmother Mary Cheeke/Morris.
Elizabeth Morris and John Massey (my 3x great-grandparents) have descendants in four generations with the name Loxdale as a Christian name.
It is through the Cheeke family that I was able to trace a very circuitous route back to William the Conqueror and his wife Matilda who was descended from Charlemagne, King of the Franks.
The information I have given you comes mainly from familysearch.org
If you Google Shropshire Archives and key in Samuel Cheeke Morris, Loxdale etc, you will find more information. Likewise Staffordshire Archives, etc. And if you do find a connection to the Morris and Cheeke families I will happily give you some more information about them.
I would be very interested to know exactly what John Skitt's Will said in regard to Loxdale, as this might help me to solve that mystery.
Cheers,
Alpha
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Hi,
John Skitt's will is available at the UK archives - you may be able to find the link by entering John Skitt and Longnor Hall. The Family Search center also shows a William Morris baptised in Baschurch (where the Cheek family had property) with parents Thomas Morris and Elizabeth - date of baptism is 21 June 1789. Joseph Morris baptised at the same place on 7 Jan 1787 also with parents Thomas Morris and Elizabeth. And a daughter Elizabeth baptised in Baschurch on 3 Jun 1792. If you are correct as to the date of your Elizabeth - then it seems likely that the 3 I've found from Baschurch are from a different line. The family bible in our possession - and the will naming Thomas, Samuel, William, John and Joseph Morris - as well as all the Loxdales may not connect to Samuel Cheek Morris at all. I'll keep searching and let you know if I have a breakthrough.
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Hi Alpha
I am currently researching my paternal ancestors and found your pst regarding Lord Buckley / Bulkeley, my interest is that this lord is strongly connected to my line of Buckley's from Sr Richard Bulkeley/Buckley of Baron Hill, Beaumaris, Anglesey, Wales.
I did note that Lord Thomas Bulkeley / Buckley married an Elizabeth Warren as I am still working on this line I am discovering that there is a vast amount of work to do to connect my Buckley line however I have got as far as John Buckley birth 1680 death 1773 In Oldham, Lancashire married to Lady Mary Howard birth 1687 death 1729 I have yet to find John's father I am still going through the research process this will also include visits to the central library for heraldry books.
If I come across anything that helps you for Thomas and Elizabeth I will let you know.
Regards
Katrina Meyrick (nee Buckley)
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Hello Alpha I joined RootsChat just yesterday, so don't really know what I'm doing yet. In any event, I saw your post saying you're interested in Hobbs of Hambleden. My partner, Judy Bowles, has found that her (I think) g-g-g-grandfather, Robert Hobbs, was born in Hambleden in 1809. Later he lived in Marlow, where his granddaughter, Kate Hobbs, met Thomas Bowles. They married in Hambleden. From research on the internet, I rather think that Robert's father was one Francis Hobbs.
Would you be familiar with any of these names?
Kind regards, glimpse39
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Hello
My great-great-grandfather William Hobbs (1811-1878) had a brother called Robert (known as Robin) who was born 13 July 1809 in Hambleden, Bucks. My notes (from information written down by my gt-gfr Frederick Hobbs in 1896) state that he became a gardener to Mr Cox of Thames Bank, and was a noted horticulturalist. He later inherited the property of John (1 May 1807-19 March 1876) and returned to Hambleden where he was a sexton in the church. John, Robert and William were the first three sons of Francis (b 1783) and Ann (nee Keith). The other children were Alfred (1813-1861), Thomas (b 1818), James (b 1821), Joseph (b 1823) and Mary Ann (b 1825). I worked out the family tree from the IGI (familysearch.org), and I have a copy of the Will of Thomas Hobbs (gf of Francis). I hope this helps,
Cheers,
Alpha
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Hello Alpha
That's fantastic - it's the same Robert Hobbs! We knew he was a gardener (from censuses) but to hear he was a noted horticulturist is something special. Interestingly, Judy's late father (john Anthony Hobbs Bowles) was a very keen gardener - and probably never knew about Robert. Judy and I went only last week to Marlow and Hambleden, to have a look around. We didn't find 'Gardeners Cottage', where Robert lived, but after your message I did check back to the 1871 census and see that he then lived in Mill Lane, right next to Thames Bank.
After returning from our visit, I went online and found all the children of Francis and Ann that you mention. I also found an Eleanor Hobbs, christened in Feb 1816. Maybe she didn't survive?
FYI, Robert was married to Mary (don't know her surname), and their children were Elizabeth, John, Thomas and Alfred. John married Eliza Sawyer (of Great Marlow); they had three children, one of whom was Kate Emma Hobbs. She was born in south-east London, but returned to Marlow to live with her 'Sawyer' grandmother. I'm not sure, but I think her mother died, and her father re-married.
Kate married Thomas Bowles, and they lived in Hambleden a while, before moving to the Acton area of London. (In the church in Hambleden, we found a record of Thomas Bowles, baker). Judy's grandfather, John Hobbs Bowles, was born in Hambleden. Of course I can let you have all the details relating to Robert and his off-spring, but I realise that William is the one of direct interest to you!
We'd be very pleased to know more about Francis. You mention his gfather; was his father by any chance John and his mother Ann? I found a Francis Hobbs, christened in 1873 in Hambleden. And would there be any chance of seeing the gfather's will? Clearly that's a very personal document, so I understand if you want to keep it private.
Thank you again for your interesting and helpful response.
kind regards, glimpse39
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Can you work out how to send me your email address, and then I will send you the information I have, but it won't be before the weekend. Sorry! Yes, John Hobbs married Ann Phazey in 1770. He was born 1744. Francis' dates are 1783-1852 and Ann (Keith)'s dates are 1782-1861. She was a lacemaker.
Cheers
Alpha
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Hi Alpha
Thanks for the additional Hobbs info. Looks like I can send you a Personal Message after my third Post on RootsChat. This is my third Post ... so I'll send you my email address that way. Will have a go at doing that before the weekend.
Many thanks, Glimpse39