RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: Betty Boo on Wednesday 18 April 07 17:49 BST (UK)
-
Hi everyone,
I was recently on this page asking for help to find my grandmother Mary Carney birth records. I did know she was born in Newry and Mourne County Down in 1880 and that her parents were John Carney and Mary Kennedy from the daughter Mary's marriage certificate.
Now with the help of a lovely lady on here who uses the name teap78 I found that my John Carney and Mary Kennedy married in 1877 and that my grandmother was born in 1880.
I have been onto Family Ulster to buy a copy of the marriage certificate of my great grandparents and they found this marriage and I should receive the certificate soon.
However they say there are too many Mary Carney's born in Newry and Mourne in 1880 for them to find out which one is my grandmother. I thought with them already knowing the parents names they would have been able to find the birth details but they say they can't.
What can I do now?
Edit:- Sorry I should have as you can see from the moderator's information below said all the previous information I received on the 2nd page of messages on Newry and Mourne County Down!! Sorry the moderator is quite correct to point out that I should have added these details to my previous thread.
SOOOOOOOOOORRY Moderator!!!!
Elizabeth
Moderator comment: see also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,202094.0.html
p.s. that's OK Elizabeth - just trying to keep everyone well informed so that they can assist you! :D
-
Hi Elizabeth,
I can understand why they tell you that there is too many Mary Carney to determine which was yours due to the fact the Indexes only show name and district they were born in without any parents' name.
In order to do it, they HAVE to go all through the birth entries which is too much work for just one pound.
If you want to purchase the transcription of her birth entry, they will oblige you with it. Or you can always send for the photocopy of her birth entry at the www.groireland.ie since you have her parents' names and county and year.
They will do it for you only 6 euros.
Or applying to the www.groni.gov.uk for tenner and 50p for a certified copy online and they will get it to you within 10 days as opposed to the Irish GRO which will take about 4 weeks.
Another website for you to try is:
www.ancestryireland.com and they have a database of mixed civil & church records. There is a good chance your Mary is there.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi again,
I think your Mary may not have born in 1880 but a bit earlier. Not so surprised because at that time people tend to give a slightly wrong age for many reasons: 1) not to embarrass their spouse that they are actually older than them, 2) could not remember exactly when s/he was born, and 3) not sure of their age so give their best estimate of the age.
Just look for Mary Carney births with the father's name of John on the ancestryireland site and her birthplace may not what you thought it to be.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi Tees,
Sorry I was away getting a cup of coffee, didn't notice your reply. I asked for a copy of the marriage and the birth both were £4 each.
I have been told as there are several birth I have the option to pay £4 for each one but they don't exactly say how many there are just that there are too many, it could cost a small fortune.
As I have never done this before I really am looking for advice on what I should do!!
Elizabeth
-
Hello again Tees,
That could be the case I have the details of my grans death, she died in Ferbruary 1959 aged 80. I am not sure when her birthday was so yes it could be maybe 1879 or 1880. In the census I checked it did look like she was born 1880.
From her marriage in July 1903 she was aged 23 but I don't know when her birthday was so difficult to be exact.
Elizabeth
-
Hi again,
Yes, the price you qouted is correct as it is transcription of the actual entry.
I think what they are trying to tell you---they cannot go all through the register books to find your Mary Carney if there is too many of them. It is more helpful to have an exact birth date. Transcription service is only good if you have exact date to follow up on.
If you ask for the Look up in the Indexes, they will give you the list of all Mary Carney in 1880 and you have to determine which was yours. Then tell them to follow up on the particular Mary Carney in the Indexes. They will do it for you for they have an exact reference information to look up an actual entry. This costs only one pound.
My suggestion is to go on the website of ancestryireland and see what you can find on your Mary Carney.
Or you can send off to the one of the GROs in Ireland and Northern Ireland yourself--they will find a birth entry for you with the information you gave them.
Hope this is clear enough for you to follow through.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi Elizabeth,
Very good--there is a 1878 or 1879 Mary Carney birth on ancestryireland site.
Go there and buy a basket of Mary Carneys for only 6 pounds and you get to view five records.
Then you clink on 1878 birth and it will open up and show you who were her parents.
Doing Irish genealogy is a bit difficult because of the poor Irish records access. Regarding to the ages, do not assume that the age is correct until you have a document proves it.
My great grandfather stated an age on his marriage entry but his birth certificate stated otherwise by four years!
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hello Tees,
Thank you so much for the information on that website do I have to register first? I tried it before and couldn't quite understand what to do??
I know what you are saying now though!! Will go and give it a try, can I just pay by credit card??
Elizabeth
-
Hi Elizabeth,
Yes, you have to register. And they do accept credit card.
If you need help, I am sure one of the Rootschatters will come to assist you.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi Tees,
Sorry I have looked at the website but it ony has:-
Mary Ann 1877
Mary Agnes 1878
Mare Anne 1879
Mary Harry 1884
None of these are my grandmother, she didn't have a middle name at all.
Elizabeth
-
Sorry Tees,
It costs £30 just to join that website and become a member.
Elizabeth
-
Hi Elizabeth,
You do not have to be a member to join the site. I often used this website and I am not the member.
Your next best option would be to contact the church where her parents got married in to see if they have a baptism entry possibly with the birth date. :)
Do not assume that one does not have a middle name--in my case, I thought my granny only had one forename until I sent for her birth certificate. It showed TWO forenames and I asked my Mother about her Mother--she said, "Oh, your grandma did not like her first name so she preferred to go by her middle name!" I thought I know my grandma! :)
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi again,
I would like to purchase the basket to find out whether they have yours but I already overextend myself. Terribly sorry about this--hope you understand.
Regards,
Tees
-
Hi again,
You simply register at the time of the purchase that is when they will give you the membership number and you get to create a password of your choice.
That is how I sign up as it is pay per view which cost 6 pounds.
Hope this help you a bit. Otherwise, just fill out the application form and post it off to one of two GROs in Ireland or Northern Ireland.
There they will do search for five year as long as you are certain that she was born in Co Down (Newry is in Co Armagh if I recalled correctly) with the names of her parents will confirm a correct birth entry.
Cheers,
Tees
-
Oh No Tees,
I wasn't in any way asking you to do that I am quite happy in fact very happy to do it myself I just can't get into it to do it. I would be happy to pay for several marriages as long as I got the one I wanted.
My Gran on Marriage and Death certificate is just Mary Carney, my mother was called after her, again just Mary.
Elizabeth
-
Thanks tees,
I will go and give it another try, maybe I am doing something wrong, I don't know but will try again.
Many, many thanks for all your help.
Elizabeth
-
Hi Elizabeth,
Aw, thanks--I was only saying that I would love to help you out as I am a bit nosey at the same time! ;D
Where did her parents get married in? Since you have their marriage entry it should tell you where.
If that is true, then the database we were looking at are not your Mary Carney.
I think she may be born in Newry which is in Co Down (I must hammer the map of NI in my head as I often got the places mixed up, lol).
This site only covered Co Antrim and Co Down along with Belfast.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi again,
You just clink on the purchase link at the top of the basket of Mary Carney--then it will register you from that point.
By the way, there are two 1877 John Carney marriage entries on this site--one church record showed it was taken in Newry & Mourne and one civil record showed it being taken in Co Down.
I will go to other website to see if they have any information on your Mary Carney.
Regards,
Tees
-
Hi Tees,
Yes John Carney and Mary Kennedy who are Mary Carney's parents married in Newry and Mourne in 1877.. Mary Carney was born in Newry and Mourne too but I can only think it would be 1880 if in July 1903 when she married she was 23 years of age.
They must have had more children but all I know of is my gran. Maybe she was born in in 1881 if her birthday was after July??
Elizabeth
-
Hi again,
Sorry other database do not have your Mary. So I strongly suggested that you would have to send the application off to the GRO in Ireland as it is much cheaper and yes they do take a credit card.
They will search two years on both sides of 1880 to ensure that they do not miss her birth entry.
Once again, do not assume that the birth year of 1880 is the correct one until you have a document to prove it. :)
Many of my Irish records showed that my ancestors were "wrong" about their ages. :) All of this changed when we are in early 1900s.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi again Tees,
I will do is that this website www.groni.gov.uk
Elizabeth
-
Many many thanks Tees,
You have been so helpful, I don't know what I would have done without you!!
You are the Best!!!!!!
Elizabeth
-
Hi,
If you use that website, it will cost you 10.50 pounds.
This website I was referring to: www.groireland.ie
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi again,
You are more than welcome! I guess you already filled out the online application on Northern Irish GRO's website. ;D
It will be about ten days before you get the certified copy of her birth entry.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Thanks Tees,
I will just go and do that now, have my credit card at the ready, its the waiting isn't it!! Thats what I like about Scotlands People if you want to find it you can also view it as well.
If you need anything on Scotlands People or Ancestry just give me a shout, I
would be very pleased to help you with anything in return for all your help.
Elizabeth
p.s. are you on Genes Reunited???
-
Hi again,
Yes, it is the waiting which is the difficult part!
Remember, if you use the Irish GRO (www.groireland.ie) it will cost you only 6 euros for a photocopy of any entry versus a certified copy which cost 10 euros. It will be about 4 weeks' waiting. You have to mail/post the application off to them.
With the www.groni.gov.uk, they have online application but it cost you 10.50 pounds for the certified copy. They do not do any photocopy.
Cheers,
Tees
-
Hi Everyone,
I just thought I would let you all know that today I received information that the birth record of my gran Mary Carney and also the marriage of her parents John Carney and Mary Kennedy could not be found in Newry and Mourne County Down by Family Ulster.
I think I will have to maybe start all over again with this search!! I would however like to thank everyone for all their help trying to trace my family, you have all been really, really friendly and most hepfull.
best wishes to you all Elizabeth
-
Hi Elizabeth,
I hope you haven't given up your search. I have been working on my family tree for over 10 years and haven't paid a penny for any info. All of my info was obtained from family members, helpful genealogy researchers, and people I found online who were also trying to find family connections. Once I have found all of the names, places, and approximate dates, and have some spare change, I will send for birth records, etc. There are a lot of people out there who are very nice, and helpful, and maybe also related to you! So keep asking around; your family might find YOU!
I have been looking for a Kennedy Connection because my Great-Great Grandfather's first name is Kennedy, and his surname is MAWHINNEY. Several descendents of his are also named Kennedy, with the surname CAMPBELL.
Can you tell me what church they went to in Co. Down? Or at least which denomination? It might help in the search.
Ruth
-
Hi Ruth,
Thanks for your message, I have stopped looking for my grandmother as I don't have enough information about her to find out where she came from in Ireland.
Most of what I know about my grandmother Mary Carney is hearsay from an elder cousin as all my family are gone and I really don't have anyone to ask.
All I know for sure is my grandmother Mary Carney married my grandfather Thomas Ferguson in Dundee on 27th July 1903, Mary was aged 23 and Thomas was 22, they married in the Catholc Church in Dundee.
Mary's father was John Carney hairdresser, her mother was Mary Carney nee Kennedy.
When my gran died I was only about 11/12 years of age so never asked any questions, my mother had told me my gran was born in Ireland.
Years later my elder cousin (she was about 13 years older than me) who had been brought up by my grandmother as her mother had died young said my gran came from Belfast Ireland. She remembers being told by my gran that she came to Glasgow Lanark when she was about 17 years of age with two of her sisters.
She later met my grandfather there as he was working in the mines in Glasgow, they later returned to Dundee and married in 1903.
I can't find my grandmother in any census other than maybe the 1901 Dundee census where it looks like she is living with an Irish family as a boarder.
Elizabeth
-
Hi again Elizabeth,
I think that Mary KENNEDY was the name you should be looking for, not Mary Carney. It may also be a common name but you may find her listed as a mother giving birth to a girl child, unnamed as of the reporting of the birth. Usually there was a christening date recorded that was a date just as important as the birth, and the christening date was sometimes the only date reported. Can you tell me if the family was catholic or protestant? You might find out more from church records.
Here is a link to the area around Newry.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/NewryTownlands.htm
See if any names of the towns look familiar. Mourne isn't the name of a civil parish, but there is a catholic parish called Mourne Lower. The Mourne Mountains are between Rathfriland and the sea. Part of Newry is in County Armagh.
The Mourne Mountains are beautiful when viewed from Rathfriland and surrounding towns. I know, I have seen them! Your ancestors, and mine, lived in a beautiful place, even if life was hard and food was scarce. After my three week visit I really learned why they found it so hard to leave.
Good luck to you.
Ruth
-
Hello again Ruth,
I actually paid for a search to be done at the records office in Ireland and they search two years either side of 1880 and couldn't find my grandmothers birth.
I think thats why I kind of gave up as I felt I had tried everything!!
Yes as I said my gran was Roman Catholic up every morning for 6am mass in the church, never missed a day.
As noted in an earlier message as my thread I thought the hairdresser who lived in The Strand in Newry and Mourne Nicholas Carney could have in some way been related to my grandmother as there was a Catherine Carney who married in Dundee and her father was Nicholas Carney (a hairdresser).
I had thought this could maybe could have been one of my grans cousins but I will never know for sure. I just thought with John Carney and Nicholas Carney being hairdressers, well maybe they could have been brothers.
Elizabeth
-
I guess I missed part of your message. Thanks for covering it again. I also didn't read all of the messages in the other thread as directed by the moderator. Sorry. I just wanted to write to you right away to say: don't give up! And don't waste money. I know there are experts that do this for a fee. But part of the joy is the journey. It is a bit like fishing, but use lots of fishing poles and good bait. I have "met" so many nice people doing this, and while looking for my own family, I still try to help other people find theirs. I guess that is what I mean by bait. Have lots of messages out there for people to find, and in the process, make friends and help others. Someday the right person will read your message and know exactly who Mary KENNEDY CARNEY is, or her daughter Mary CARNEY FURGUSON and contact you right away! Your grandmother was a devoted Roman Catholic and she probably learned that devotion from her mother. There has to be some record of that Kennedy family in one of the RC churches around Newry.
You may be right about the hairdressers being related.
Hold on to that idea. And try to find out more about your great-grandmother. Another fishing analogy: Cast a wide net. Look for as many names as possible.
Bye for now,
Ruth